Achitect Fees - What Should I expect?

[carsandcapp]

There is another thread on the front page about this topic, but I am hoping to get some more input from those with RL (real life) experience.

My proposed project: 22x24 garage with living area above and (right next to it) a new shotcrete inground pool. My neighborhood restrictions are stringent. Need approval form a board so using an architect is almost a given.

I am budgeting about $150k - $175k (inclusive of their fee). What should I expect to spend JUST on the architect?

 

[bczygan]

It really depends on what they do for the fee.

Bill

 

[CTyankee]

I may be wrong but IIRC 10% of the project cost is about average..depending on the complexity. Whether or not that's reasonable is another question.

 

[yeldogt]

There is another thread on the front page about this topic, but I am hoping to get some more input from those with RL (real life) experience.

My proposed project: 22x24 garage with living area above and (right next to it) a new shotcrete inground pool. My neighborhood restrictions are stringent. Need approval form a board so using an architect is almost a given.

I am budgeting about $150k - $175k (inclusive of their fee). What should I expect to spend JUST on the architect?

There are just too many variables .... call a couple .

For small projects I have had great luck using local retired guys ... Ask the code official if he knows of any around. If so ....maybe tell you of a project to go look at. Have you noticed any projects in the area you like?

The last small project I did was a small single story bump out -- local retired guy came up with some great details

If you want to have them go to any meeting --- that's typically a tacked on service as a minimum. I have had to get drawings done to show what I want to do prior to doing the actual construction drawings -- so there is extra work there.

You hire an architect for the design .... you don't know what you don't know. The goal being to achieve a level higher VS what the vast majority of homeowner driven designs look like.. Have also worked with some great builders .. not as good as the best architects.

I did a small 400sf one story bump out with a local guy a while back. Had good ideas and came up with a complementary look after a few sketch/designs -- additions are always problematic and I don't find matching always works.

Provided a full set of plans including interior details .. It was around 5k. That was in NJ where you need full stamped drawings ... insulation cert stamped. He designed the open truss/ beams as well

 

[rieferman]

We're putting a medium sized addition (less than you're spending, but not a lot) on our home in a couple weeks and used a family friend architect who is retired... he tried to refuse taking any money at all, but we paid him nicely after researching what would even be within the realm of "fair". We came up with $5K being about what this would typically cost, and after some arguing with our friend ended up paying him about 1/2 that.

That said, our addition is reasonably easy / simple and we will not need our friend to visit throughout the build, he wasn't needed in our variance hearings etc.... if your build is much more involved, the $$ will increase I would think.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

$10-15/sq ft for just design services is a fairly broad, but accurate rate.

On a new build (such as yours), $6-12k depending on the lot, complexity/stories.

 

[HPRifleman]

We hired an architect this past summer for our project. A 24' x 44' garage plus conversion of our existing 24' x 24' garage into dwelling space.

His fees included a couple of on-site meetings, coordination with builder, drawings (paper and electronic), and any changes to drawings by municipal building department. Total fees: $3850.

 

[brianchevy]

I'm the Original Poster on the OTHER "Architect cost" thread and I approve of the responses here as well. Thanks for the feedback HERE and over in that thread too.

 

[Ralf11]

are there any contractors you trust, who are also adept at meeting these code provisions?

around here a lot of guys do a 'design/build' thing and try to cut the architects out of the whole thing

I agree that architects are 'for' design, but they also do something else: they control the contractor for you - a buddy of mine is an architect and he will even spec. the type of nails and the distances between them (earthquake stuff)

Finally, an architect will know of good contractors he or she likes to work with. If you don't know the local contractors you are buying that too.

 

[yeldogt]

are there any contractors you trust, who are also adept at meeting these code provisions?

around here a lot of guys do a 'design/build' thing and try to cut the architects out of the whole thing

I agree that architects are 'for' design, but they also do something else: they control the contractor for you - a buddy of mine is an architect and he will even spec. the type of nails and the distances between them (earthquake stuff)

Finally, an architect will know of good contractors he or she likes to work with. If you don't know the local contractors you are buying that too.

Hired an secondary architect to design my slate roof and gutter system .... he was an envelope expert. On my own through the builder the bids were a mess and all over the place -- I could not get bids that covered what I wanted .. they varied by over 60k. I pulled it from the contract --- Even with his 12k + fee the final cost was at the low end of the range -- he found and directed the contractor. I got a better job at lower cost

 

[scottydosnntkno]

$10-15/sq ft for just design services is a fairly broad, but accurate rate.

On a new build (such as yours), $6-12k depending on the lot, complexity/stories.

Man I should be an architect in Georgia apparently.

Here in michigan, our custom builds are generally $1.30/sq ft. Just did a 4800ft house, fully designed and stamped plans the city accepted for $5,300 based off a sketch originally given to the architect on a piece of paper

 

[Slednut]

We added to our attached and added living space above it in 2014, he charged me a dollar per square foot. Ended up with full size prints to take to the city. The plans didn't have a red mark on them.

 

[yeldogt]

Man I should be an architect in Georgia apparently.

Here in michigan, our custom builds are generally $1.30/sq ft. Just did a 4800ft house, fully designed and stamped plans the city accepted for $5,300 based off a sketch originally given to the architect on a piece of paper

That had to be simple ... what's custom?

 

[scottydosnntkno]

That had to be simple ... what's custom?

Everything about our new builds is 100% custom, we don’t use a single stock plan.

So the one I referenced was designed by the client, literally as a sketch with rough dimensions on a piece of paper. I took it to my architect, he drafted it up, we did a few rounds of minor room changes, and then he also did all the load calcs, beam sizing, etc to get a fully stamped set of plans to Take to city hall. That house had 18 steel beams of various sizes, several supported by large steel columns in the second floor framing, I-joists, LVLs everywhere, covered front and back deck, second detached garage, a massive four ply girder truss spanning 30’ in the front (albeit designed by the truss company, but the architect placed the steel beams and columns to support it) etc etc. basically almost 9000sq ft of living and garage space for $5,370 in architect fees.

I can’t imagine paying 10% or 10-15/ft in fees. Hell, i can get most of our houses FRAMED for $15-16/ft and that’s a four man crew for a few weeks of time. To pay the architect that is insane

 

[ConCretin]

I hired an architect when I started the Concrete Underground. The fee was 15% of construction cost, which was to cover a broad range of services from concept to construction drawings to budget analysis to construction oversight. It also included the structural engineering and any other specialized design services.

I'm not sure this level of service is necessary for a garage build. I would think it's more of a drafting function with some modest engineering.

In my case, I terminated the arrangement when it became obvious that I had basically hired a draftsman. I generated most of the design ideas and the plans required to execute them. If I had taken the drawings provided by my architect to a GC, it would have been a disaster but since I built it myself, we got it done.

In hindsight, the only thing I couldn't have done myself was the structural engineering. I could have saved a bundle by hiring this function directly.

I think it comes down to your budget and your comfort level with the construction process especially for a relatively simple structure.

 

[wake74]

Man I should be an architect in Georgia apparently.

Here in michigan, our custom builds are generally $1.30/sq ft. Just did a 4800ft house, fully designed and stamped plans the city accepted for $5,300 based off a sketch originally given to the architect on a piece of paper

That's a bargain. I'm very familiar with A&E costs, bill rates, % of TIC, etc on the industrial side but not so much on the residential side. I know what we pay (and bill out) even our recently registered Architects, and their designers. $5300 wouldn't buy you many billable hours.

Figure $200/SF for a full custom house, that would put this house at close to $1M. That would put the architect fees at what, 1/2 of 1 percent? If if I brought my management team an estimate with design fees of 1/2 of 1 percent, it would be a short and not pleasant conversation

Thanks for the info, it's interesting.

 

[carsandcapp]

Thanks everyone for their replies so far. I think it will be hard for me to spend $15k on an architect (10%) when the options are already so constrained by the space and the style of the existing home. It HAS to follow the same design cues as the main house or it won't get approved. I could see spending that on a "blank slate" project where creativity deserves a premium, but not in this case. I think I might be OK up to around $5k, but after that I am going to get steadily more grumpy.

 

[yeldogt]

Everything about our new builds is 100% custom, we don’t use a single stock plan.

So the one I referenced was designed by the client, literally as a sketch with rough dimensions on a piece of paper. I took it to my architect, he drafted it up, we did a few rounds of minor room changes, and then he also did all the load calcs, beam sizing, etc to get a fully stamped set of plans to Take to city hall. That house had 18 steel beams of various sizes, several supported by large steel columns in the second floor framing, I-joists, LVLs everywhere, covered front and back deck, second detached garage, a massive four ply girder truss spanning 30’ in the front (albeit designed by the truss company, but the architect placed the steel beams and columns to support it) etc etc. basically almost 9000sq ft of living and garage space for $5,370 in architect fees.

I can’t imagine paying 10% or 10-15/ft in fees. Hell, i can get most of our houses FRAMED for $15-16/ft and that’s a four man crew for a few weeks of time. To pay the architect that is insane

It's not about SF .... Billing for SF is vanilla. And it's not about the structure -- computers can do that. It's vision and details .. That's what you hire a good architect for ... It's a different product.

Gut rehabs can be even more involved ... I built a glass and steel house on a major river and the architect and I never even discussed the how .... that was not his job .... it was the ........What.

 

[yeldogt]

That's a bargain. I'm very familiar with A&E costs, bill rates, % of TIC, etc on the industrial side but not so much on the residential side. I know what we pay (and bill out) even our recently registered Architects, and their designers. $5300 wouldn't buy you many billable hours.

Figure $200/SF for a full custom house, that would put this house at close to $1M. That would put the architect fees at what, 1/2 of 1 percent? If if I brought my management team an estimate with design fees of 1/2 of 1 percent, it would be a short and not pleasant conversation

Thanks for the info, it's interesting.

I'm at +2x per SF of that on this project .... for the gut rehab not including the original property. Should come in around 100k for the architect .... 5% ... it could have been a few % points more if he would have been needed for construction management.

 

[scottydosnntkno]

That's a bargain. I'm very familiar with A&E costs, bill rates, % of TIC, etc on the industrial side but not so much on the residential side. I know what we pay (and bill out) even our recently registered Architects, and their designers. $5300 wouldn't buy you many billable hours.

Figure $200/SF for a full custom house, that would put this house at close to $1M. That would put the architect fees at what, 1/2 of 1 percent? If if I brought my management team an estimate with design fees of 1/2 of 1 percent, it would be a short and not pleasant conversation

Thanks for the info, it's interesting.

Yeah that one came in a little less around $880k all in, but it was a rural house so the land cost was less