Acid Etch Concrete Floor?

[mikeyandem1]

Ok this isn't for a garage floor... but an outdoor concrete patio. I want to acid etch it, but have no idea what route I want to go... what company, type, color or anything. Anyone have experience with this? I would like a color that goes with our brick house but isn't loud or obnoxious. Suggestions or help on the process from start to finish would be appreciated!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Ok this isn't for a garage floor... but an outdoor concrete patio. I want to acid etch it, but have no idea what route I want to go... what company, type, color or anything. Anyone have experience with this? I would like a color that goes with our brick house but isn't loud or obnoxious. Suggestions or help on the process from start to finish would be appreciated!

Hello.

Two ways to do this:
A. Treat patio with (2) applications of Concrete Acid Stain, neutralize and seal with a solvent or water based sealer (HD6414 or HD-415)

B. Treat patio with (2) applications of HD-410 Water based stain and seal with a solvent or water based sealer (HD-6414 or HD-415)

Either plan works well and we happen to have all this on our web-site.
http://www.legacyindustrial.net/cart/

 

[mikeyandem1]

Ok another question...

The joint sealer is a grey self leveling sealer SL-1. If I use a dark acid stain what will it do to the sealer? Will it tint it at least, or are the joints going to stick out like a sore thumb?

Also, I would like to test colors, but there are no "out of the way" areas. It's a patio...so how do I test out colors and reactions?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Joint sealer will have no reaction at all with acid stain. Our Easy Stain may tint it a little.
We recommend a contrasting color instead of trying to hide it.

If you have the time you could get some bagged concrete and make a test pad.
That is how we bench test products before they go out the door for real world testing.

 

[mikeyandem1]

Joint sealer will have no reaction at all with acid stain. Our Easy Stain may tint it a little.
We recommend a contrasting color instead of trying to hide it.

If you have the time you could get some bagged concrete and make a test pad.
That is how we bench test products before they go out the door for real world testing.

Meh... wish I knew that before using grey. We were planning on going with a Coffee/Brown.Tan color for the concrete... not sure how that will look with grey sealer.

 

[LW CONCRETE]

In addition to many of the fine vendors on here you may want to check out www.concreteearth.com We have worked with their products and they are phenomenal. Go to their website, several people there to talk to and they like to talk shop, maybe Pat Solar. He has forgotten more about concrete coatings then most people ever will know.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Meh... wish I knew that before using grey. We were planning on going with a Coffee/Brown.Tan color for the concrete... not sure how that will look with grey sealer.

No problem, tape over your joints with blue painters tape. They make this tape in a wide variety of widths. Pull the tape after you stain.

Lastly, we make a tan sealant that can be put over top the gray.

http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/hd100-superflex-urethane-sealant-p-280.html

 

[mikeyandem1]

I might get some of that tan. I have to scrape some of the grey as it is..some high areas. Been working with a razor blade but it's slow going and seems to tear the sealant rather than cut it. Is there an easier/better way to do this?

Also, 1/2 of the concrete is brand new and not sealed. The other half is about a year old. I put water on both parts to see if it was sealed and it's hard to tell. The newer concrete soaks the water much faster than the older slab. The older slab does soak it in.. just takes about 30-45 mins vs 20-25 of the newer concrete. Should I be concerned that it is sealed?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Try a wire-wheel on a drill or grinder for the sealant.
Tough to say on the sealer. If it is darkening right away you should be ok.

 

[mikeyandem1]

So I have been using the wire wheel on the joint sealer... and it is doing a great job cleaning it up... my only concern is that its scoring the concrete and that the joints are going to have a completely different look when I stain them than the rest of the concrete.. is this something to be concerned about?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

So I have been using the wire wheel on the joint sealer... and it is doing a great job cleaning it up... my only concern is that its scoring the concrete and that the joints are going to have a completely different look when I stain them than the rest of the concrete.. is this something to be concerned about?

If you are going to stain it and re-fill with another joint material you should be fine. If it bothers you switch to a thinner wheel or ease up on the pressure.

 

[mikeyandem1]

The joints are really skinny... I am going to switch to another wheel as this one is also leaving grey/black residue that is hard to clean off the surface...

 

[Johnny C]

Hello everyone... 1st post on this board, but not a newbie with concrete etching and staining.
I have a suggestion - Smiths Color Stain (water base) followed with 3 coats of Masonary Saver Sealer. I have used a number of times and it is virtually foolproof to get a great professional finish, I like it so much that I used it to do the floors on the 2K sq ft in my finished basement.
Cheap, easy and awesome. I would be happy to send pictures to you if you would like to see my floor. One unique element with the Smith product is that it can adhere to and sound surface with tenacity, I expermented with an area that had previously had porch and floor oil paint and went right over it after scuffing and it is the prettiest part of the floor and no you cannot scuff it with a sledgehammer

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Johnny:
We are pleased to have your experience onboard. However, we are talking about real concrete stain, not an acrylic paint.

 

[mikeyandem1]

Ok... I am starting to freak out a little bit here... I tried the wire wheel and it started to darken/grey the concrete along the joints.. So i went to a coarse nylon wheel which worked ok, but a large portion of the joints are smooth now.. almost as if they were polished a bit.

Is this now going to look like complete **** when I lay a stain over it? If so what can I do about it? Going to put a lot of effort and money into this whole patio area and I don't want it to look like a trainwreck. I have never used this stuff and have no idea what the outcome is going to look like.

Part of me says to finish the rest of the joints like this and if they look different from the rest of the concrete at least the joints will be the same? Bottom line is I have no idea.. we are going to use a somewhat darker stain.. so maybe it will not be as noticable??

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Mikey:

How bout a picture so we can see what's going on?

 

[mikeyandem1]

Mikey:

How bout a picture so we can see what's going on?

Here are some pics..this one is what the wire wheel does leaving the grey/black residue that really doesn't clean off...but the wire wheel takes down the joint sealer easily.

This next pic is the nylon wheel which polishes the concrete but cleans up for the most part...

And this next one is the nylon wheel now... I guess the thing is getting dirty cause it's starting to do this...

The nylon wheel takes forever as well and doesn't do as good a job. Suggestions? Should I be concerned about this when I acid stain this? Are these areas going to "POP" out and look horrible?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Anything that changes the rate or % of absorption will change the color to some degree, especially with acid stain. Not so much with the Easy Stain. Do what you can to make it all uniform.

 

[dcs Inc]

Reactive acid stains are pretty much a commodity. Every one offers them. A lot are private labeled. Some will carry a stain or dye mixed in them to create a different color. A couple of companies have a higher amount of metallic salts in them for a higher degree of reaction. Our reactive acid stains work great as do many others. The trick is in prep and application. The pics you have shown will react differently along the joint lines because of the abraded areas. You have removed a thin layer of surface paste and opened it up just a bit.

Any joints, cuts you have that are open and can pool the acid stain will become darker. The areas you have cleaned will become darker.... except for the areas you have deposited metal. they may not want to take the stain as good as the surrounding area. You need to clean the slab real good to expose the concrete surface. You don't want the hydrochloric acid to burn itself out before getting to the concrete.

Also, if the concrete has been glazed over during finishing (powered troweled to a glassy finish), the stain may not take at all. There's a lot to getting a really good coloration with acid stains. gene ec-Indy

 

[dcs Inc]

Oh, be careful of these water based stains, be they with a "hardener" or some other kind of "color juice". If you are not polishing the slab you will have build up areas where the slab is more porous and will be blotchy. The polishing world are split on this kind of application as it has had mixed results. As far as applying it to a slab and not honing down the surface. Get some advice from someone not selling the product. I'd recommend that on any product line.

Water based stains verses dyes. The molecular structure of a water molecule is huge compared to a dye. Dyes are basically inks and some are UV resistant and some are not. (they just add an UV inhibitor in the mix) Anyway, the dye molecule is so much smaller and can penetrate the surface better. Still, the surface needs to be open especially with a water based product or it will just lay on top and can be easily be scratched off. gene

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Get some advice from someone not selling the product. I'd recommend that on any product line.

Show me a contractor and I'll show you 100 problems with someone's product.

 

[dcs Inc]

And 99 out of 100 will be the contractor's inability to point a finger at himself. Still, every product pusher has the bestest.... hell, that's their job to convince you of that. You will find most all of these product pushers just have their stuff relabeled/packaged for them. I offer an excellent product line but don't push it on here. It's not a diy product and we only sell to trained, qualified installers. I will offer training to be able to sell to some of these guys and the ones that want to install it correctly may want that training. Epoxy installations are a tricky business. With out training and someone to call in the middle of the night to ask a question when they are knee deep in the middle of it all I guess don't matter.

I still contend asking qualified installers their opinion on different product lines. You will find out real quick what's good and what's bad.

Unfortunately I have an obsession to help people. I'm not pushing to make a sell on here as most are, I'm just offering my past experiences in hope of helping someone. If someone wants a higher grade product, they will ask.
gene ec-Indy