Acid Neutralizer

[Jsf721]

Ok, as a quick refresher, I had a new Hi efficiency HVAC system installed in my home after Hurricane Sandy. I had applied for the building department to come in and do the final inspection on my home to close the open permitt. I finally got the inspection done and we failed becasue the new system did not have an Acid neutralizer?

What it that? I called my installer he tells me that this is un-necessary and politics. He tells me he has never had a inspectioin failed becuase of it. The building inspector for the plumbing division said all new High Efficiency installs are required to have his so that the drain condensate run off is not acidic.

Is this an install and forget it item or is it a filter or a tablet that needs maintenance?

Like you always do, please educate me on the fact. Thanks GJ!

I am pissed as this is a waste of time. I need to have him install these because it means have him come back to install them and then re-scheduling the inspector who gives you a window of 8:30AM-5PM.

 

[rlitman]

It is important, and not political. The condensate water is acidic, and will corrode your drains without it.

However it is a really simple and cheap part. The condensate drains through a section of pipe filled with chips of limestone. After a decade or so, you add more limestone as it dissolves.

 

[koditten]

Yes, you need an acid neutralizer. I would think a talk with the HVAC is in order. All the instruction manuals for hi effic. furnaces have this covered quite clearly.

This condensate will eat away any iron or concrete over time. You have a good inspector.

 

[Jsf721]

Thank you very much. I appreciate your responses and explaination. This part should be installed where? I have a condensate pump I assure it should be neutralized before the pump correct? I really thought I should be able to trust my installer as they are a "real" company not a fly by night organization.By knowing where it should go I will make sure we git ti done right this time.

All the scheduling for workmen is a major PITA. After dealing with all this for so many months my patients is shot.

It is important, and not political. The condensate water is acidic, and will corrode your drains without it.

However it is a really simple and cheap part. The condensate drains through a section of pipe filled with chips of limestone. After a decade or so, you add more limestone as it dissolves.

Yes, you need an acid neutralizer. I would think a talk with the HVAC is in order. All the instruction manuals for hi effic. furnaces have this covered quite clearly.

This condensate will eat away any iron or concrete over time. You have a good inspector.

 

[Grumpy365]

Can someone site me where this is code?

 

[Jackfre]

The Ph of your condensate out of your furnace is around 3.2, 7 being neutral. The neutralizer is a section of PVC pipe filled with Limestone chips. There will be a couple barbed fittings to connect to you vinyl tubing before the condensate pump. The limestone is a consumable and you have to replace it occasionally. I've made my own in the past using 3" pipe. Female adapter with plug on either end. Drill through the side of the fitting and pipe and run a 3/8 or 1/2" tap into the PVC. Use silicone on the threads of your barbed fitting and carefully screw it into the PVC threads. It takes about nothing to cross thread PVC so extra care. Buy a bag of limestone chips and Bob's yer Uncle.

 

[Jsf721]

Thanks for the information. I have my installer comming out today to install this on both of the units he installed in my home just weeks ago. I appreciate the location info.

The Ph of your condensate out of your furnace is around 3.2, 7 being neutral. The neutralizer is a section of PVC pipe filled with Limestone chips. There will be a couple barbed fittings to connect to you vinyl tubing before the condensate pump. The limestone is a consumable and you have to replace it occasionally. I've made my own in the past using 3" pipe. Female adapter with plug on either end. Drill through the side of the fitting and pipe and run a 3/8 or 1/2" tap into the PVC. Use silicone on the threads of your barbed fitting and carefully screw it into the PVC threads. It takes about nothing to cross thread PVC so extra care. Buy a bag of limestone chips and Bob's yer Uncle.

 

[Highbeam]

For comparison, apple juice also has a pH of 3.

 

[rlitman]

For comparison, apple juice also has a pH of 3.

Something like that. It isn't going to give you an acid burn, but apple juice cannot be stored in concrete or steel (aside from stainless). It would corrode its way through.

 

[Jsf721]

OK so I have a question. If this PH 3.2 condensate has been running through the pump for 6-8 weeks is it already damaged or No big Deal?

For comparison, apple juice also has a pH of 3.

Something like that. It isn't going to give you an acid burn, but apple juice cannot be stored in concrete or steel (aside from stainless). It would corrode its way through.

 

[rlitman]

No big deal. The neutralizer doesn't even bring it back to 7 anyway.
And in any case, it'll be flushed out with plenty of more condensate.
It's all about long term issues.

You can buy a neutralizer:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008ORBM3K/?tag=atomicindus08-20
or build one for a fraction of the price:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/qa/neutralizing-excess-boiler-acid.aspx

 

[Mr onetwo]

I use these...they are only around $30 wholesale. http://www.neutrasafe.com/Products.html

 

[djjsr]

Stupid question here because I don't know HVAC.

What causes the water to be so acidic?

 

[pop pop]

Combustion byproducts condensed.

 

[rlitman]

Combustion byproducts condensed.

Well, kinda sorta.
The normal byproducts of combustion are CO2 and H2O.
Those alone actually make for a slightly acidic mixture, but there is more going on in the chemistry.

The heat of combustion causes the nitrogen N2 in the air to break apart. Some of it combines with free oxygen to do things that eventually lead to the water being a mild solution of nitrous and nitric acids. Acid rain is the same thing (but also has sulfuric acid, from the combustion of fuel oils that contain sulfur, whereas natural gas doesn't have significant amount of sulfur).

 

[retrobuilder]

Eastwood carries a salt nuetralizer. We used a product called SaltX as a preventive for minimizing road salt corrosion of car shipped from Michigan to Georgia. Dillute per instructions and apply by a pump sprayer or pour..

 

[Big-Foot]

Okay - my house was built about 9 years ago and has the high efficiency gas furnace and water heater and I don't see one of these contraptions anywhere but from the sound of it, I need to add them into the drainage pipes that right now just dump to my basement floor drain. Lookng for advice on this if anyone else has done the same..

Thx

 

[djjsr]

Mine drains to the sump pump in my basement. It's been that way for about 20 years and doesn't appear to be causing any problems. The sump pump discharges into the back yard to a spot where the grass is very thick and green. Maybe I'll start using that water for fertilizer.

 

[Highbeam]

The whole point is to protect downstream pipes from corrosion. Modern homes don't use a lot of cast iron, copper, or concrete drain pipes. All plastic and plastic don't care much about acidity.

 

[Highbeam]

Mine drains to the sump pump in my basement. It's been that way for about 20 years and doesn't appear to be causing any problems. The sump pump discharges into the back yard to a spot where the grass is very thick and green. Maybe I'll start using that water for fertilizer.

Probably from the nitrogen that was mentioned earlier.

 

[brewchief]

In 17 years here in MI I've never seen an acid neutralizer and aside from a few copper lines used for drains on old 90% furnaces I've never run across any plumbing damaged by the furnace condensate.

Adding them won't hurt anything but you certainly won't have any problems from not having them.

Ask the inspector if you can email them a picture of it after it's installed, our inspectors here will often accept a pic or two to avoid a return trip. Even if you were charged for a re inspection not having to sit around all day would be worth it.

 

[koditten]

A pretty good rule of thumb is....if the installer allows pvc for venting then the condensate produced will be acidic. How acidic can only be determined by an acid test of the water.

 

[JDinME]

Hi, We just got a Vitodens 100. The installer put in a Liberty condensate pump to send the condensate up to the drain pipe in the basement. The new section of the pipe is PVC but it connects to old cast iron. I've read about neutralizing filters and DIY ones. My question is can I simply put some marble chips from Lowes in the Liberty pump? Will this hurt the pump or cause any other nightmares? Thanks

 

[rlitman]

You don't want to reduce the volume of the pump's container by putting chips in it.

 

[JDinME]

Gotcha. Thx.