Acid Stain after grinding?

[KPSquared]

Ok, so it got to cold to get my plan underway for my floor. The plan was to put down Legacy's sealer and urethane top coat. To protect my floor until spring, I threw down some cheap acrylic sealer. The idea was to just grind it off in the spring as I was planning to grind the floor prior to application anyway.

Well, the more I stare at the pretty colors, the more I want to stain the concrete before I apply the top coats.

I'm curious about how the floor will turn out if I throw the acid stain down after I grind the sealer off? I keep thinking it won't turn out as nice as if I had just stained the virgin concrete.

Any advice appreciated. Plan to order up the stuff from Legacy as soon as winter comes to an end (Late May at the earliest)

Any help/advice is appreciated!

Edit *changed "dye" to "stain"

 

[absintheisfun]

I acid stained the back room in my house....turned out pretty awesome if you ask me. I think the fact that the acid highlights and alters its tones based on the character flaws of the old slab makes it better than what I've seen on fresh slabs.

My oly issue is that I've already sealed it and love it, but when I clean it and it is wet it is frakkin amazing looking. I've been pondering clear epoxy, but my pool table is already in place

 

[KPSquared]

So you acid stained after you ground the slab? If not, please re-read my original post. . .

 

[dcs Inc]

Dyes and acid stains are 2 different animals. If you have taken much of the surface paste off during grinding you may not get a good reaction with a reactive acid stain. Dyes on the other hand don't care how much you grind. If you have direct sun hitting the concrete a lot of dyes are not UV proof and will fade.

 

[KPSquared]

I meant acid stain. Not sure why I used "dye" in my first post.

Originally I was planning to do something very similar to flybefree's floor (big hanger/shop) but now I realize that grinding first will probably affect how the stain looks.

Just trying to decide if its gonna be worth it or if it will even work.

 

[Criss]

Subscribed, I really like the look of acid stained concrete.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

As Indy mentioned. Too much grinding can minimize the effectiveness of the acid. If this is a risk. You can apply an acetone dye. It is actually quicker and unless you have a major uv light issue should work fine in a garage . It is sealed in the same manner as the acid.

 

[KPSquared]

Scotty, do you guys carry an acetone dye? Like I said, I'm hoping to get your stuff on a truck this spring and I'd like to get it all in one spot if I can.

The floor is super flat and pretty smooth so I'm not gonna have to grind it that much. Just enough to take that cheap sealer off. I don't know how deep that sealer would go, but it went on about 2 weeks after I poured the floor.

I suppose the grinding equipment makes a difference as well.

*EDIT - Just found the CDye1gal on the Legacy site. Will this leave a mottled look like the Acid Stain or is it going to provide more of a solid color?

 

[ket-tek]

I acid stained the back room in my house....turned out pretty awesome if you ask me. I think the fact that the acid highlights and alters its tones based on the character flaws of the old slab makes it better than what I've seen on fresh slabs.

My oly issue is that I've already sealed it and love it, but when I clean it and it is wet it is frakkin amazing looking. I've been pondering clear epoxy, but my pool table is already in place

Any chance you have a picture of how it turned out?

 

[absintheisfun]

I'll get a pic up in a bit. My camera's battery is dead and the phone takes crappy ones. I did grind it before. We moved into the new house and had plans on doing something in the back room, but didn't know what. The local Water company fastforwarded our plans the day before we moved in when they turned the water on while we were not here. The shutoff valve for the fridge didn't quite close all the way, so it flooded the carpeted back room.

Step 1: remove carpet and tile that was there
Step 2: rented a diamond grinder attachment and buffer from HD
Step 3: grinded the **** outta that floor and filled in any holes left by the tac strips
Step 4: cleaned all remaining mastic and carpet glue with a razor, goof off and hand sanding.
Step 5, 6, 7, 8...clean clean and when your done with that...clean it again.
Step 9 wait till dry and use Acid Stain. It was stain, not dye. I had two jugs (1 mixed with 50/50 water acid and 1 mixed with 80/20 Acid/water) Then I had a hand sprayer, like an old windex bottle set to stream, with an 80/20 solution of a very dark stain for highlighting.

Let it stand for 24 hours. It helped that we hadn't moved in yet! After that, clean it with water and a shop vac, then use a mix of ammonia and water to neutralize the acid that remained.
Clean clean and clean again to make sure all acid and ammonia are gone. Allow to dry 8 hours.
Sealed it with a "satin" finish.

Like I said, when it is wet it is absolutely amazing...dry its pretty good, but man I wish I took an extra day and clear epoxied it.

I started in one corner and sprayed them in a circular motion with one jug over each shoulder and worked left to right until I was out of the room...occationally spraying the darker stain in certain areas.

Some videos on YT are very helpful. Some are the opposite. Some say to use a broom and sweep it to get a more uniform spread, but that is not what I was going for.

 

[absintheisfun]

Dyes and acid stains are 2 different animals. If you have taken much of the surface paste off during grinding you may not get a good reaction with a reactive acid stain. Dyes on the other hand don't care how much you grind. If you have direct sun hitting the concrete a lot of dyes are not UV proof and will fade.

I was told that if you have an aged slab, you either need to prep it with a chemical that will etch the existing concrete or grind it so you can take the top layer off and expose virgin concrete below it.

If one or the other isn't done, the acid won't be able to react with the (I'm going to get it wrong, but I think it is) lye or limestone in the concrete.

 

[KPSquared]

absintheisfun - if you get a chance to get pictures of it, I'd love it see it. All of my reference has been to floors that were acid stained on a fresh slab.

I hoping for a mottled, varied look to the concrete. Hoping it will provide a unique look to the floor.

 

[absintheisfun]

Okay, got enough charge to get a few pics. They look a little more orange than it really is. The dark spots should be fairly obvious, the white against the wall is where the grinding didn't clear. I was going to do it by hand, but I really like the random nature of it along the edges of the room. Its a little more Brown (almost like tanned animal hide or worn leather) than the images show, but here you go

The squiggly lines in the lower right of this pic are from the carpet glue that deeply penetrated the concrete and I just couldn't get it out. Its in a couple of places in the room, but much like the walls, I really like the complete randomness of it and how it fits with the floor and room.

Last thought- I'm getting ready to do my new garage and am seriously considering staining it. The good thing about acid stain that you don't get with epoxy is that if you chip it, you can't see a gouge in the finish...all you did is chip the concrete and guess what...there is stain underneath it! With epoxy, you chip it, it peels a bit.

Still not sure though...

 

[KPSquared]

Look at Legacy's sealer/ urethane top coat. There's a couple threads on here. Over acid stain it looks amazing. Even looks good over bare concrete. A better option for me. Ill try and dig up some links.

 

[KPSquared]

One more question while I'm on this topic. . .and it's my thread so I guess it's ok to hijack it. . .

The only thing my concrete guy did poorly was the relief joints. He used those Zip Strips and they leave a small crack, rather than a saw cut joint. Can I still fill those with something or should I just let the small crack show?

 

[dcs Inc]

Most any sealers will highlight the colors. Solvent borne more so than water based. Your coloration looks great. If ever you want to hide the edge glue you could tape off a border and dye it darker border. The random glue lines could be touched up also.

I attempt to push clients to the dyes if they want an acid stain. You can forgo the neutralizing and have much more control of color. If the concrete has been burnished when it was finished (hard power troweled), the reactive acid stain will sometimes not penetrate the surface and you come out with bare spots that need attention. So a very light spiral grind must be done to open the surface. The same holds true for dyes on a heavily burnished finish. The dyes will only lay on the surface and not absorb into the concrete. They can be easily scratched off. If going with dyes, use a solvent based and not water based.
Older concrete will sometimes not accept acid stain because all the reactive surface paste has worn off. Grinding will not bring them back.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

KP:

We have both. Acetone dye and acid stain. The dye comes as a powder, you provide the acetone locally.

Link: http://legacyindustrial.net/cart/concrete-dye-per-gallon-p-162.html

 

[Criss]

Does anyone know of a company in Western Pa that does acid etching? Any references or first hand experience? If so please post or PM me.

 

[brownbagg]

acid stain works off the cement content of the slab so it cant have any paint, dye, or coating over the cement content. but the best slab I ever seen with acid stain was the worst slabs finish. all the cracks , dimple, flaws add a lot of detail to the slab. I would reccomend slapping the slab with chain, steel and other before the stain.. I knew one guy laid some fish bones on the slab before staining and he has a fossil on his slab.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Brownbagg nailed it.

 

[dcs Inc]

You can also use potato chips to speckle, cotton string for faux cracks, thin plastic sheeting crinkled up on the acid stain for a few minutes then pulled to create an unusual pattern. Random strips of cotton cloth for a lineary look.

I like spraying the concrete with water and get a decent film of water, then apply the stain. This will create a lot more flowing color variation.

 

[rpenner54]

Lots of good info here.... I am wanting to do this acetone dye to our 1972 living room floor. We are in the process of stripping and scraping off all the old paint and stain that's on it. I would love some more character type tips for setting off this floor. I love the character marks on floors. We will be getting the legacy sample kit here soon once I get some more flooring ready to try to find the right color for us.