Add a Single or Start From Scratch?

[BobRae]

Hi,

We have a 25' x 25' x 9' double detached garage. Actually it is attached to our house by an enclosed breezeway (20'L x 8'W). We want to add a single to the double. We initially thought we would add the single between the existing double and the house (i.e. On the east side of the double garage), but it would have left us with a 6 x 8 breezeway which we plan to heat and use as a mud room. Wife and designer said that is too small. In addition the garage would only have been 8' from the house which would crowd it.

As it turns out, we have 9' from the other side of the garage to our west property line. We can build to within 2' of the property line. I've hatched this idea that we would lift the existing 2 car and move it 5' closer to the house leaving us with a 15'x 8' mud room and build the single on the other side. We need a new floor in the existing double anyway and we'd be setting piles under the structure regardless.

The question is, do you think it would be less expensive to demolish the existing double (saving the cedar siding) and build a standard triple attaching it to the mud room or, move the existing and custom build an extension to the right of the 2 car? The existing garage is in perfect condition and sadly I just spent around $7,000 insulating, dry walling and lighting the two car last year (before I came up with this expansion plan).

Thoughts?

 

[gravelydude]

I think that if you were to post some pictures, and a diagram and or aerial view of your present property, it would be helpful. Without this additional information, it is really hard to visualize the possibilities. Just my opinion.

Jack

 

[rvieceli]

Do you need to park three cars in there or do you just need the extra shop space?

 

[BobRae]

I think that if you were to post some pictures, and a diagram and or aerial view of your present property, it would be helpful. Without this additional information, it is really hard to visualize the possibilities. Just my opinion.

Jack

This gives you an idea of the layout. I want to park a 3rd car, not use the space for a shop, although I'll do light maintenance on my sports car.

 

[ez-duzit]

Oh man, don't throw your money away. Fire the designer and have a heart to heart discussion with your wife. You have a great looking home with matching garage.

I would leave the whole garage alone and create the parking spot, the mud room and breezeway in the available space between the garage and house. A shed can be attached to the other side of the garage, for storage. Or you could park your trailer there.

 

[Onewolf]

Can you add onto the rear of the current detached garage? Ie, make it a four car double stack?

 

[BobRae]

Oh man, don't throw your money away. Fire the designer and have a heart to heart discussion with your wife. You have a great looking home with matching garage.

I would leave the whole garage alone and create the parking spot, the mud room and breezeway in the available space between the garage and house. A shed can be attached to the other side of the garage, for storage. Or you could park your trailer there.

Thanks for the advice.

If I add a 12' garage to the left of the existing, the mud room will only be 8' x 8' which we deem to be too small for a closet, 2 cubbies for the kids along with sports gear storage. In addition, we felt it would ruin the look to the street, removing the breezeway (mudroom) windows and the garage would start to "crowd" the house with only 8' between the garage addition and the house.

Having a 3 car built starting 15' from the house (attaching to the breezeway) and to within 2' of the property line to the right seemed to be a perfect solution except it would mean either moving the existing garage to allow a single to be added on or demolition of the existing and building a detached 3 car in the correct location.

I was just canvassing those with cost experience as to whether moving an existing structure 5' would be prohibitive such that demolition and starting from scratch would be more cost efficient way to go.

PS The trailer is a friends and doesn't normally live on our driveway.

 

[sublime68charger]

I vote for the lift and move the 2 car over and then build on the new 3rd.

since you already invested money in drywall and insulation.

are you doing this as a DIY project or gonna hire the garage move to be done?

the roof looks in good shape as well.

just my thoughts on it.

 

[BobRae]

Can you add onto the rear of the current detached garage? Ie, make it a four car double stack?

I don't think so. We are on a large (for the city) corner lot of 133' x 150' but our bungalow ("ranch style") is around 3,400 sq ft. so it takes up a fair bit of land. A double (or single) added onto the back of the existing would eat up too much of the yard, plus I don't think it is ideal having to play "car jockey" when I want to get the sports car out.

 

[BobRae]

I vote for the lift and move the 2 car over and then build on the new 3rd.

since you already invested money in drywall and insulation.

are you doing this as a DIY project or gonna hire the garage move to be done?

the roof looks in good shape as well.

just my thoughts on it.

We'll hire a contractor to move the garage and add on. We have an insurance claim on the house which will be replacing the entire roof (including breezeway and garage roofs) so we don't have any cost associated with that.

The garage is a very solid build (circa 1952) with 2" x 4" Douglas Fir studs 16" OC and 2" x 10" Douglas Fir ceiling joists 16" OC. I was going to lift it a couple of feet and pour a new floor with a 1' concrete grade beam to get the base of the garage off the floor and aid in getting some slope away from the garage, so I'd be lifting it anyway. That is when I got the idea to move it over at the same time. Just not sure what the costs are to do this. It seems like it would be a big deal to me, but maybe specialized contractors do this all the time?

Anything we build will have to be on piles driven to refusal like the house and current garage (whether we move and add on or build from scratch.

 

[burger]

Hello Bob,

Here are my suggestions:

1. I agree with ez-duzit that you have a beautiful house and garage.

2. It would be a shame, financially and otherwise, to tear down that garage. Moving it would be cost prohibitive unless you're capable of doing it yourself and have one helluva crew of handy friends/family, but then I doubt you'd be asking us about it.

3. I think you either live with a 2 car garage or give up on the mudroom UNLESS you can compromise on the mudroom design.

4. If you decide to add the 3rd bay on the breezeway side and want it to look less obtrusive, step the front face of the 3rd bay about 2' back from the front of the existing garage.

5. I understand why building a 12' wide 3rd bay would limit you to an 8' wide mudroom, but why does it hold you to an 8' length? Could you do an 8x8 mudroom and hang an 8' x 3' closet off the back? (Total room size 8' x 11')

6. If you need more interior space and more garage space, have you thought about moving?


Hope this helps!

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

Hello Bob,



5. I understand why building a 12' wide 3rd bay would limit you to an 8' wide mudroom, but why does it hold you to an 8' length? Could you do an 8x8 mudroom and hang an 8' x 3' closet off the back? (Total room size 8' x 11')

This is my question too, why can't the mudroom be the entire length of the garage addition?

(Edit) I think I see the answer to my question. Front door.

 

[iminocca]

If you want a car garage to look "correct", like the house was originally designed with one you will need to remove that garage and start over. The problem with trying to change the garage foot print is you will need to re-frame the roof, and moving existing wall sections in two directions is neither practical or cost effective. A plot plan and an aerial photo would be helpful for getting meaningful advice on this forum, but it sounds like you really need an architect (hopefully by "designer" you mean architect).

Since you will need to replace the roof, I would consider tying directly into the house and make it large enough to cover all the space you want and need and eliminate the breezeway. Personally I like the look of the house as is and would lean towards sacrificing some of the rear yard and move in that direction, you could probably keep most of the existing garage roof if you are only expanding in one direction. This would be an order of magnitude less expensive.

Personally, I believe the best way to approach this with your designer/architect is to come up up with a design that encompasses all of your (you and your wife's) wish list then adjust according to aesthetics and budget. I live in CA and hip roofs in this area require extensive engineering to build or modify, hopefully you won't have those issues where you live. You have a beautiful home and I would not take half measures with it.

 

[BobRae]

This is my question too, why can't the mudroom be the entire length of the garage addition?

(Edit) I think I see the answer to my question. Front door.

I don't have a drone so its hard to show what the layout is. The breezeway attaches to our house at the back door. As you are facing the house (standing in the breezeway), to the left is a bathroom window. To the right is a double patio door in the kitchen, so I can't increase the size of the width of the breezeway. Adding mudroom the entire length of the added garage (if you mean to the left of existing) would further crowd the house, so I can't do that.

I had a quote last year of around $50,000 to add an 11' x 24' single addition, install a new concrete floor with heat in the breezeway and demolish and pour a new floor. This included pouring a new floor under everything and adding piles for the addition. The problem was the addition involves custom framing to tie into the existing garage. If I want clear span inside, I needed a $2,500 "I" beam on the left side of the existing garage to allow for a clear span. The garage addition including I beam and door was around $25,000. I'm sure a stand alone single would be around $18,000. Added to this is around $8,000 to run a drain line to the city sewer for drainage. We get allot of snow here in the winter and sand and grit accumulate on the garage floor. I'd like to be able to hose it down regularly.

I'm waiting to find out how much it costs per sq. ft. to build new. I'd re use the cedar siding and buy extra for the addition. The new garage would be 925 sq. ft. If it costs $50/sq ft without roofing, total cost would be $46 - $50,000. Not too far off the quote I got to add on to the existing garage and pour a floor. For reference, the quote I got in my area to break up the existing 24' x 24' floor and pour a 24 x 36 floor with drain and catch basin and break up and re pour a breezeway floor (10 x 11) - total 1,025 sq ft was $23,000 (the drain basin was about $2,500 of that cost), so about $19/sq ft.

 

[BobRae]

Thanks for the posts. I heard back from the building mover. The garage will be lifted and moved 6' to the left and blocked in place so floor work can be done. Then we'll chop out the floor, add piles and pour a new floor and drain and set the 2 car down on a 1' grade beam. Then we'll tie in an addition 11 x 24 with a separate 8' door and a higher ceiling. We'll use a steel "I" beam on the joining wall to allow an open span. Siding will be cedar to match.

The cost to lift and move the garage is around $5,000.00. Adding the single onto existing is $20,000 without concrete which is about $5,000 more than building a single from scratch. But it is much less expensive than starting a new triple when wiring insulating and finishing is considered.

 

[ez-duzit]

That doesn't sound to bad price-wise.

 

[BobRae]

That doesn't sound to bad price-wise.

Just have to firm up the quotes. We're going to get an architect to draw it up and a structural engineer to advise on piling and tie in details. We plan to do in floor heat but have to make sure our boiler has the capacity otherwise we might hang a gas furnace if that is more economical.