Adding 220 in shop. Please help

[Josh the IH guy]

Hey guys, kinda long post but I feel like I need to be detailed...
I want to add a washer and dryer in my shop. Breaker panel is on north wall. I have to add 220v to the south wall. In the middle of the west wall, the PO has 220 for a compressor. Originally, I was going to tie into that in the attic. When I got up there, I found he had run 2x 12/2 yellow, instead of 10/3. upon further investigation, one of the 12/2 runs to a gfci first, and then to the compressor, so it has it's own 20 breaker. That has totally thrown me...

So, I've decided to just run a fresh 10/3 for the dryer. The breaker panel is in the nw corner of the shop, and it is really tight in the attic. And its 150 degrees up there. So, I think it will be easier to run the line inside the shop, up along the ceiling. My question is, how should I do this? I'm thinking 1 inch conduit, but then how do I reduce to fit into a wall mounted box? I also want to use this leg to add a plug on the south wall for the welder. I dont work much over there, but it would be nice to have...

I've gotta insulation guy coming tuesday or Wednesday to blow in the attic. If I need to be up in there, I'd rather do that before he gets here....

Another note... I live in rural Arkansas. I do not have to worry about code. I want it to be safe, but it doesnt have to be "just so".

Thanks guys. I appreciate you.

 

[Terry D]

I would install 1/2 EMT and pull in a black, red, white and green #10 THWN conductors. Trying to put 10/3 NM-b in conduit can be a pita. I would not tap off it for a welder. You need to run a separate circuit for that. You could run a 3/4 EMT from the panel to a J-box, then come out of that with 1/2 inch EMT for each of your 2 receptacles, with the 3/4 EMT you will be able to run both circuits in one pipe to the J-box.

 

[rburke65]

The purists will tell you that’s it’s 240......NOT 220.....you have been warned. Good luck with your 220 volt job.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hey guys, kinda long post but I feel like I need to be detailed...
I want to add a washer and dryer in my shop. Breaker panel is on north wall. I have to add 220v to the south wall. In the middle of the west wall, the PO has 220 for a compressor. Originally, I was going to tie into that in the attic. When I got up there, I found he had run 2x 12/2 yellow, instead of 10/3. upon further investigation, one of the 12/2 runs to a gfci first, and then to the compressor, so it has it's own 20 breaker. That has totally thrown me...

So, I've decided to just run a fresh 10/3 for the dryer. The breaker panel is in the nw corner of the shop, and it is really tight in the attic. And its 150 degrees up there. So, I think it will be easier to run the line inside the shop, up along the ceiling. My question is, how should I do this? I'm thinking 1 inch conduit, but then how do I reduce to fit into a wall mounted box? I also want to use this leg to add a plug on the south wall for the welder. I dont work much over there, but it would be nice to have...

I've gotta insulation guy coming tuesday or Wednesday to blow in the attic. If I need to be up in there, I'd rather do that before he gets here....

Another note... I live in rural Arkansas. I do not have to worry about code. I want it to be safe, but it doesnt have to be "just so".

Thanks guys. I appreciate you.

So they used 2 runs of 12/2 NM-b for one 240v outlet for the compressor? Its ran through a GFCI as well? what kind of GFCI?

The compressor is 240v?

something doesnt make sense here

Can you take some pictures?

the dryer should be on its own circuit.

you could repurpose one of the 12/2 NM-Bs for the 20a circuit for the washer. make sure to put in a GFCI outlet at the washer.

 

[Josh the IH guy]

So they used 2 runs of 12/2 NM-b for one 240v outlet for the compressor? Its ran through a GFCI as well? what kind of GFCI?

The compressor is 240v?

something doesnt make sense here

You're right. It doesnt make sense. 2 rinse of 12/2. But only 1 run goes through the gcfi... and it has it's own circuit, separate from the other run.

240 compressor. 80 gal, 5 hp is what used to be there...the compressor went out, but will be replaced...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

5HP? woa... wire too small for 5HP....

for 5HP motor you need 35a rated wire. this means #8 NM-b or #10 THWN.

you will also need a disconnect if more than 50' from and not within sight of the panel.

It should not be ran through a GFCI. Is this a 120v GFCI outlet?

 

[Josh the IH guy]

5HP? woa... wire too small for 5HP....

for 5HP motor you need 35a rated wire. this means #8 NM-b or #10 THWN.

you will also need a disconnect if more than 50' from and not within sight of the panel.

It should not be ran through a GFCI. Is this a 120v GFCI outlet?

Ugh, well damn. This guy really did it right. in that case, I'm going to run 1.5 inch? conduit and run wire for the welder, the compressor, and the dryer in there. I'm glad you guys are here.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

whats the make and model on the welder?

 

[Josh the IH guy]

whats the make and model on the welder?

Eastwood 175 mig

 

[Terry D]

I couldn't find the specs on the 175, but the 180 needs a 30 amp circuit. Without seeing your situation, don't know if separate conduit runs are needed or if everything is in the same direction. 1.5 conduit is way overkill and going to be harder to work with. If you can run conduit from the panel to a J-box and then split from there and go to each piece of equipment, that might be easier. A 3/4 EMT from the panel to the J-box will still hold everything if using single THWN conductors. I would not go any larger than 1 inch EMT

 

[Josh the IH guy]

I appreciate everyone. You guys have me a lot to consider. I just wanted to close this thread with a solution, just in case this comes up in a search...
I decided to add a 100 amp service to the south wall. I used #2 wire from my 200 amp box. Then from the 100 amp box, I wired in the dryer with 10/3, and the welder with #2,since that's what I had. I left some #2 in the attic, and I'll eventually run it to the compressor. Now that I have that service over there, I can add a water heater, and mini split on that wall.

Thanks again!

 

[pattenp]

If that #2 is aluminum it is 90A, so the feeder breaker in the main box needs to be no more than a 90A.

 

[Nthill93]

If that #2 is aluminum it is 90A, so the feeder breaker in the main box needs to be no more than a 90A.

Not to hijack but I’m looking to upgrade my garage from 60amp to 100amp service. I’m looking at 2-2-2-4 alum wire URD. It says it has a max amps of 115amps but everywhere I read says 90 amps. Here’s the link for the wire I’m looking at https://nassaunationalcable.com/pro...MItbrAmLCS8gIV0giICR1sjwHAEAQYASABEgJWePD_BwE

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not to hijack but I’m looking to upgrade my garage from 60amp to 100amp service. I’m looking at 2-2-2-4 alum wire URD. It says it has a max amps of 115amps but everywhere I read says 90 amps. Here’s the link for the wire I’m looking at https://nassaunationalcable.com/pro...MItbrAmLCS8gIV0giICR1sjwHAEAQYASABEgJWePD_BwE

you should really start a new thread... URD is not an NEC recognized cable type and is not permitted for use inside structures... the rating for #2 AL as a branch feeder is 90a despite whatever you find elsewhere

 

[Josh the IH guy]

I spent the big bucks and went with copper. I wanted more than enough.

 

[FMB4]

I spent the big bucks and went with copper. I wanted more than enough.

Very smart choice sir. More than enough through copper is what you want when it comes to welders and other heavy draw devices. Aluminum: well that's a horror movie that I've seen enough of.

 

[Norcal]

Very smart choice sir. More than enough through copper is what you want when it comes to welders and other heavy draw devices. Aluminum: well that's a horror movie that I've seen enough of.

Copper installed improperly is just as bad as aluminum installed improperly it’s ignorance to say aluminum bad, copper good.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Very smart choice sir. More than enough through copper is what you want when it comes to welders and other heavy draw devices. Aluminum: well that's a horror movie that I've seen enough of.

umm that makes no sense. the newer aluminum alloys used since the late 70s perform just as good as copper...

 

[Sumboodie]

The purists will tell you that’s it’s 240......NOT 220.....you have be3n warned. Good luck with your 220 volt job.

Because "220" is not correct. It's like calling a framing hammer a ball peen.
For a forum with most guys quite adamant on tools, safety, etc it strikes me as odd that using the correct terms on voltages is somewhat looked down upon.

If I called the ridge of the roof a soffit, would it be fine to claim "ah... same thing, don't be picky"?

 

[Sumboodie]

Very smart choice sir. More than enough through copper is what you want when it comes to welders and other heavy draw devices. Aluminum: well that's a horror movie that I've seen enough of.

Unless you are in a machine shop, a welder is generally considered somewhat of a low draw appliance, primarily due to duty cycle.

It's why a 10 gauge "30 amp" wire is ok on a 50 amp welder outlet. At least it was with 2008 NEC when I wired my garage. FWIW, I used a #6, as I wanted to run a CNC plasma table in the future... which I've yet to own (haha).

Not sure how it works if you have 2 outlets, 1 for a dryer though?

My extension cord has 2 welder outlets, but it's rare I'm running 2 things at once. Mostly was so I don't need to keep unplugging the welders or plasma cutter during a project.

 

[DJF3]

umm that makes no sense. the newer aluminum alloys used since the late 70s perform just as good as copper...

And I'm pretty sure in my area the hydro company uses aluminum to feed the panel.....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

And I'm pretty sure in my area the hydro company uses aluminum to feed the panel.....

Same here.

 

[Walkers]

The purists will tell you that’s it’s 240......NOT 220.....you have be3n warned. Good luck with your 220 volt job.

Yeah, 230, 240, whatever it needs…

 

[Syberia]

I would install 1/2 EMT and pull in a black, red, white and green #10 THWN conductors.

Why black and red? Both are hot phases and interchangeable. Just use 2 blacks and save yourself the trouble of buying an extra color.

 

[Terry D]

Why black and red? Both are hot phases and interchangeable. Just use 2 blacks and save yourself the trouble of buying an extra color.

Just habit of saying that. 2 blacks is just fine