Adding a 30 amp Outlet

[AndrewDouglasBird]

I'm wanting to add a 30A outlet in my garage to use with my 120v welder. The welder supposedly draws 20A max, but I figured having a bit extra capacity isn't a bad thing.

I plan on putting the outlet directly below the electrical panel so I don't have to chase the wire very far.

My question is, what specifically do I need to do this? Obviously a breaker, wire and outlet, but anything special needed with the breaker? What gauge wire do I need? Box can just be a standard box, nothing special, correct?

Thanks.

 

[AndrewDouglasBird]

So after a bit of research, I have realized 30a outlets use a different plug than a standard 120v one like is what is on my welder. I had thought these were available because my father has a 30A circuit in his house that has a standard 120v receptacle. I'm now assuming that is either too big of a breaker or the wrong receptacle for the wiring/breaker.

So I guess I will just go with a 20A circuit. What breaker and wire do I need for this size circuit?

 

[Gore]

12/2 for 20A

10/2 for 30A

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So after a bit of research, I have realized 30a outlets use a different plug than a standard 120v one like is what is on my welder. I had thought these were available because my father has a 30A circuit in his house that has a standard 120v receptacle. I'm now assuming that is either too big of a breaker or the wrong receptacle for the wiring/breaker.

So I guess I will just go with a 20A circuit. What breaker and wire do I need for this size circuit?

What do u mean by "standard" 120v receptacle? 5-15r or 5-20r? If so, then thats against code. U CANNOT put a 15a or 20a rated outlet on a 30a circuit.

U can, however, use a 120v 5-30r for a 30a circuit.

What model welder do u have?

What plug does it have on it?

 

[AndrewDouglasBird]

What do u mean by "standard" 120v receptacle? 5-15r or 5-20r? If so, then thats against code. U CANNOT put a 15a or 20a rated outlet on a 30a circuit.

U can, however, use a 120v 5-30r for a 30a circuit.

What model welder do u have?

What plug does it have on it?

I mean a normal outlet you see anywhere in your home (NEMA 5-15/20r). Like this:

I realize you can't use a 15 or 20 amp outlet with a 30 amp breaker. That is not what I was talking about doing.

My welder is a Lincoln 140C with a "normal" plug on it like this:

While checking the breaker panel for what style breaker I needed, I realized the only outlet in the garage is a 20A outlet (thought it was 15A). I may just use this, but I'm also still considering installing a 30A outlet with a 5-30r receptacle. Then make a short extension cord that would adapt to a 5-20r plug. I know this is done with RVs, so I figure it shouldn't be a problem.

The only reason I want to go with a 30A is I do occasionally pop a 20A breaker when welding at max capacity for long beads.

 

[mike93lx]

You're over thinking this.

The manufacturer used that plug for a reason. If you are popping a 20a breaker that is not faulty, you are probably exceeding the duty cycle of your welder.

 

[Speedy Petey]

You're over thinking this.

The manufacturer used that plug for a reason. If you are popping a 20a breaker that is not faulty, you are probably exceeding the duty cycle of your welder.

This! This is your answer.

 

[CADPoint]

Electrically, one needs to address the equipment and apply the correct
circuit sizing requirements of all the devices and equipment in all respects.

Add two circuits a dedicated 20 and 30. Maybe make it centrally located.

Making a extension cord for your welder, IMO is not the answer,
frankly it's quite dangerous. The manual should also state the same.

Keep the existing cord and use the correct receptacle on the new dedicated
circuit, at a new location. Get longer welding leads. (again, which the manual might say not to do)

There's a whole lot more to just adding a circuit a times even though your equipment is rated for conventional 120V circuit.

While not a total coverage of applying electrical work in your case Here and Here this will present exposure to, and some desired understanding for applying electrical work.

 

[ryanjharvey]

You're over thinking this.

The manufacturer used that plug for a reason. If you are popping a 20a breaker that is not faulty, you are probably exceeding the duty cycle of your welder.

This! This is your answer.

 

[Syberia]

Are you currently having any issues with the welder? I have a 120 volt welder as well that supposedly draws 20 amps; I've tripped the internal overheat protection in the welder before but never the breaker it's been plugged into, as long as there hasn't been anything else on the circuit.

A 20 amp breaker will carry more than 20 amps for at least a few minutes, and is legal.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I mean a normal outlet you see anywhere in your home (NEMA 5-15/20r). Like this:

I realize you can't use a 15 or 20 amp outlet with a 30 amp breaker. That is not what I was talking about doing.

My welder is a Lincoln 140C with a "normal" plug on it like this:

While checking the breaker panel for what style breaker I needed, I realized the only outlet in the garage is a 20A outlet (thought it was 15A). I may just use this, but I'm also still considering installing a 30A outlet with a 5-30r receptacle. Then make a short extension cord that would adapt to a 5-20r plug. I know this is done with RVs, so I figure it shouldn't be a problem.

The only reason I want to go with a 30A is I do occasionally pop a 20A breaker when welding at max capacity for long beads.

If u knew that u cant use a "standard" 5-15r or 5-20r on a 30a circuit then why did u bring up the story about your dad having a "standard" 120v outlet on a 30a circuit?

Perhaps your dads outlet is a 5-30r?

If your welder has a 5-20p, then it should be used on a 20a circuit. If its tripping the breaker, then as said above, youre exceeding the duty cycle of the welder or theres other loads on the same circuit.

 

[Junkman]

...........

Making a extension cord for your welder, IMO is not the answer,
frankly it's quite dangerous. The manual should also state the same.

...............

What would be the dangerous part, if the extension cord were of a heavier gauge wire, and rated for the amps that it was carrying?

 

[JACDes]

you are tripping the breaker because as you discovered your whole garage only has ONE 20 amp breaker...

SO if you are welding in the garage and draw the full 20 amps. (if you read your manual this is probably not the case.. max draw may actually be 16 to 18 amps)

But regardless at maximum welding load you can't have anything else drawing power in the garage (lights, radio, etc.) because you will trip the breaker.

Just make a dedicated 20 amp circuit for your welder, from what you describe the electric panel is in the garage so should be pretty easy.

 

[AndrewDouglasBird]

Are you currently having any issues with the welder? I have a 120 volt welder as well that supposedly draws 20 amps; I've tripped the internal overheat protection in the welder before but never the breaker it's been plugged into, as long as there hasn't been anything else on the circuit.

A 20 amp breaker will carry more than 20 amps for at least a few minutes, and is legal.

I've never tripped the internal breaker, and I know the welder isn't over heating as it has tripped the breaker after only a minute or less of welding before. Once reset, I can continue welding without issue.

If u knew that u cant use a "standard" 5-15r or 5-20r on a 30a circuit then why did u bring up the story about your dad having a "standard" 120v outlet on a 30a circuit?

Perhaps your dads outlet is a 5-30r?

If your welder has a 5-20p, then it should be used on a 20a circuit. If its tripping the breaker, then as said above, youre exceeding the duty cycle of the welder or theres other loads on the same circuit.

I know you can't use a lower rated receptacle with a higher rated breaker and wiring. I thought there were 30A receptacles available in the same format as 5-15/20r because of my father's house. I know now his must be a 5-15r as there is no slot for a horizontal blade and it isn't a 5-30r.

I was just thinking about it though, why can't you install a 5-15r receptacle on a 30A breaker with 30A capable wire? You wouldn't be able to plug in anything that would draw more than the receptacle could handle, so what is the problem here? Not saying I am going to do it, just curious what the issue is. Putting a 5-30r receptacle on a 15 or 20A circuit is where there would be danger I would think.

As far as what the manual says, it says input current is 20A and to use a circuit with a 20A breaker, but that the cord is 15A and the plug is a 5-15p. It also says you can use up to a 50ft. extension cord as long as it is 12ga or larger. I was thinking of making a 6ft. extension cord with 12ga, not nearly the 50 they say is max. This would be long enough to reach everywhere I need.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

....I know you can't use a lower rated receptacle with a higher rated breaker and wiring. I thought there were 30A receptacles available in the same format as 5-15/20r because of my father's house. I know now his must be a 5-15r as there is no slot for a horizontal blade and it isn't a 5-30r....

A 5-30r has an L slot for the neutral and a 5-20r has a T-slot for the horizontal blade on a 5-20p.

What size breaker feeds this outlet at your fathers house?

I was just thinking about it though, why can't you install a 5-15r receptacle on a 30A breaker with 30A capable wire? You wouldn't be able to plug in anything that would draw more than the receptacle could handle, so what is the problem here? Not saying I am going to do it, just curious what the issue is. Putting a 5-30r receptacle on a 15 or 20A circuit is where there would be danger I would think.

As far as what the manual says, it says input current is 20A and to use a circuit with a 20A breaker, but that the cord is 15A and the plug is a 5-15p. It also says you can use up to a 50ft. extension cord as long as it is 12ga or larger. I was thinking of making a 6ft. extension cord with 12ga, not nearly the 50 they say is max. This would be long enough to reach everywhere I need.

Actually, u COULD plug something in that would pull more than 20a. There is utilization equipment which doesnt have internal thermal overloads. If the equipment draws more than 20a then the outlet can be fried.

Also, the other issue with doing that is if theres multiple outlets on the same 30a circuit, accumalatively more than 20a can be pulled through the circuit but less than 30a. This can melt the screw terminals on the outlets because obviously the breaker wont trip.

I have personally seen this happen on a service call. Guy bought an old condo built in the 70s and the heater wasnt working. So he plugged in a bunch of space heaters unbeknown to him, all plugged into the same circuit. After they all heated up he lost power to all of them. So he went to the panel and didnt find any tripped breakers. Tried flipping all the 15a and 20a breakers but that didnt fix it.

So then he called us. I pulled a few outlets and discovered the hot side of the outlet had melted at the terminals. Went to the panel and discovered that the breaker feeding the circuit was a 30a Zinsco. Whoops!

Is there any other loads on this circuit? Perhaps youre overloading the circuit and the breaker is simply doing its job. Often times people equate tripped breakers to something broken or wired wrong when in actuality all theyve done is plugged in too much equipment to the same circuit and pulled too much current.

You would not believe how many service calls Ive been on that ended up being this EXACT scenario! People were bummed that they had to pay a service fee just for an electrician to tell them they need to move equipment to different circuits.

Also, what brand of panel do u have? If its an older panel the breaker may be weak!

As far as the extension cord goes that should work fine.

 

[AndrewDouglasBird]

There are only 3 outlets on the 1 breaker, one in the wall, one in the ceiling for the garage door opener and then an exterior outlet in a waterproof box that is not used. The lights are on a separate circuit. The house was built in 2007, so the panel and breakers aren't old.

I think the welder is capable of drawing 20A continuously and peak loads like when starting a weld can exceed that. I can actually control when it trips purely by changing my wire stickout while welding, so I know it must draw close to 20A normally.

I think I am just going to make up a 12ga extension cord and use the plug that is already there. When I started thinking about all this, I thought the breaker was a 15A, hence the want to "upgrade". I mostly weld thin stuff under 1/4", so it should work just fine 90% of the time.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The breaker can also be weak from numerous trips(would have to be quite a few though)...

What brand and model breaker panel do u have?