I have 2 vacant 30 Amp breakers in my exising main panel that were previously used for a 220 volt clothes dryer, and are no longer needed. The wires have been removed from the breakers. I would like to reuse the breakers and route them to a 4 position 60 Amp sub panel which is 5 feet away to use for a new ceiling fan and some lights. Can this be done and how? What gauge wire should I use?
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Adding a 60 Amp sub panel
- Thread starter lvioral9
- Start date
pattenp
Well-known member
A double pole 30 amp breaker is only 30 amps. You can use the breaker to supply a 60 amp sub-panel using #10 wire but as I said it will only have 30 amps at the sub-panel. You can replace the 30A breaker with a 60A breaker and use #6 copper to the sub-panel. If you are doing only a fan and a few lights then 30A is enough.
ok. So then if the cable run length is 5 feet, I would need 4 runs of #10 wire between the 2 panels, a sub panel box and 2 15 amp circuit breakers (max), correct? Each one of the 30 Amp breakers in the main would provide power to the two 15 amps, one on each phase, correct?
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ok. So then if the cable run length is 5 feet, I would need 4 runs of #10 wire between the 2 panels, a sub panel box and 2 15 amp circuit breakers (max), correct? Each one of the 30 Amp breakers in the main would provide power to the two 15 amps, one on each phase, correct?
ok. So then if the cable run length is 5 feet, I would need 4 runs of #10 wire between the 2 panels, a sub panel box and 2 15 amp circuit breakers (max), correct? Each one of the 30 Amp breakers in the main would provide power to the two 15 amps, one on each phase, correct?
pattenp
Well-known member
When you refer to the 30A breaker as two breakes, it should really be one breaker that is two singles mechanically hooked together as one. The 30A 2 pole breaker provides 30A to each leg of the sub panel so you can use 15A or 20A single breakers in the sub. You can supply the sub using 6/3 NM is 4 wires including the ground. Or 4 wires if you use single wires in conduit. The two hots go to the hot legs of the sub, the white goes to the neutral bar and the ground goes to the ground bar. Keep the neutral bar isolated from the ground bar. In other words the neutral bar is not grounded to the panel.
Edit: If the sub is a main lug with 4 positions then you should be able to put in 4 single pole breakers.
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Edit: If the sub is a main lug with 4 positions then you should be able to put in 4 single pole breakers.
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joe_padavano
Well-known member
Thank you. Soto clarify, the two 30 Amp breakers that are hooked together, provide a total of 30 Amps, correct?
If so, then if I fully equip the sub panel with four 15 Amp breakers, that totals up to 60 Amps.
Please help me understand
The assumption is that you aren't drawing the full 15 amps on each circuit simultaneously. If you do, you'll trip the 30 amp breaker in the main panel.
pattenp
Well-known member
You could put in 4 20 amp breakers if you want even though that adds up to 80A. You size the service to the sub based on the anticipated load. If you put 4 20 amp breakers in the panel you would most likely never pull a full 20A across all 4 at the same time. You don't want any one single pole or double pole breaker in the sub to exceed the size of the feeding breaker in the main panel.
Edit: The 4 15A breakers are split between the two legs. So 2 on one side is 30A and the 2 on the other side is 30A. You don't add the 2 sides together to get 60A thinking that's over the limit of 30A. You can pull 30A on each leg at 120V and not trip the 30A dp breaker in the main panel.
Edit: The 4 15A breakers are split between the two legs. So 2 on one side is 30A and the 2 on the other side is 30A. You don't add the 2 sides together to get 60A thinking that's over the limit of 30A. You can pull 30A on each leg at 120V and not trip the 30A dp breaker in the main panel.
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ok, so for now if I run #10 wire for twp 15 Amp breakers in the sub working on the existing 30 Amp in the main I should be good?
In the future, if I want to add the other two 15 Amps in the sub, I will need to remove the two 30 Amps and replace them with 60 Amps and also upgrade the wiring from #10 to #6. Correct?
In the future, if I want to add the other two 15 Amps in the sub, I will need to remove the two 30 Amps and replace them with 60 Amps and also upgrade the wiring from #10 to #6. Correct?
Trey T
Well-known member
If you're not planning to load anything beyond "new ceiling fan and lights" then omit the sub-panel because it's not necessary. Get a 15A breaker to run the lights and fans. Obvious answer but you might want to explain what you're doing with the 60A sub-panel.
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I twp 30 Amps are located in the middle of the 15 breakers in the main panel. I have attempted to remove them but they have been plugged in for 40 years and won't budge. I know that this is the quickest way to get what I want, but I don't want to damage any of the breakers
RustFarmer
Well-known member
Your two existing 30 amp breakers (single pole?) may not be tied together correctly, and are old.
Breakers don't cost that much. Buy a new double pole breaker for the main. Match the size of your wires to whatever size breaker you buy. You can supply a 60 amp sub with a breaker in the main that is smaller than 60 amp. Just depends on what you calculate your loads as being supplied from the sub.
Breakers don't cost that much. Buy a new double pole breaker for the main. Match the size of your wires to whatever size breaker you buy. You can supply a 60 amp sub with a breaker in the main that is smaller than 60 amp. Just depends on what you calculate your loads as being supplied from the sub.
RustFarmer
Well-known member
I have attempted to remove them but they have been plugged in for 40 years and won't budge.
Disregard my previous post. Hire an electrician.
pattenp
Well-known member
ok, so for now if I run #10 wire for twp 15 Amp breakers in the sub working on the existing 30 Amp in the main I should be good?
In the future, if I want to add the other two 15 Amps in the sub, I will need to remove the two 30 Amps and replace them with 60 Amps and also upgrade the wiring from #10 to #6. Correct?
Not correct. If the sub panel has four spaces that will take four 15A single pole breakers then you can put in all four 15A's and feed the sub panel with the double pole 30A breaker that's in the main panel. You do not need to up size the breaker in the main panel to a 60 amp and change the wire to #6 to use four 15A breakers in the sub. You need to post up a picture of the 30A breaker(s) for us to see what you have for sure.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
This is the reply I posted on your other thread.
If your goal is to add 4 15A 120V circuits, the quickest, cheapest solution is to remove the 240V dryer breaker and install 2 tandem 120V 15A breakers.
This is pretty easy for the average DIY person as long as you get get the proper tandem breakers.
Who is the manufacturer on what is the model number of the panel ?