Adding additional tank to compressor?

[timdp]

Any ideas on how to plumb another tank to a compressor (4 hp, 20 gallons) to add capacity? Is it as simple as running hose from the outlet of the first compressor to the inlet of the additional tank and moving the outlet plumbing to the new tank?

Thanks,

Tim

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

Yes, but I'd run some decent-sized hard pipe between the two. Also, depending on the layout of your shop and location of your compressor, you may want to consider putting the new receiver tank closer to your user station. This is how you'd do it in an industrial plant with large compressors in one location piped to receivers around the plant.

 

[kunkernator]

I actually run two compressors plumbed together. A 30 gallon and a 60 gallon. They both have the cut off at the same pressure.

Anyway..... I used to have them connected via solid black steel pipe, but then decided to go with flexible tubing. When you have the vibration from the compressor, it actually transfers to the other one via the solid pipe.

I use a short length of standard air hose, threaded in to one compressor, then a steel union on the other end to connect to the other compressor (in your case, tank).

 

[stage20]

How much heat is in the standard air hose you use. My discharge pipe will burn you. Wouldn't think air hose would hold up but if its already in the first tank and cooled a bit it probably be fine. I always think safety.

 

[timdp]

OK guys, here are some hardware pics for reference.

Compressor corner with Craftsman 4 HP/20 gal/220v compressor. Whatever happens compressor wise will happen here. Its centrally located to the garage and the shed, where there will be two separate rooms: belt sander/sand blast room and spray paint room (mostly for rattlecans, but I have spray guns and an airbrush as well).



Today's pick up: Sanborn 60 gal vertical compressor with replacement 1.5 HP 120/220v motor currently wired for 120v.





These pieces give us a number of possibilities:
1. Craftsman compressor with 60gal receiver. Remove the compressor from the Sanborn tank and mount the new tank horizontally above the Craftsman compressor and plumb it to the Craftsman outlet. Spare electric motor gets switched to 220v and replaces the dead motor on my Jet 10" table saw. 220v table saw! This leaves the Sanborn compressor pump unused.

2. Sanborn compressor with Craftsman 220v motor. Pull the motor off of the Craftsman compressor and mount it on the Sanborn. There may be issues with the automatic startup/shut off on the Sanborn. This leaves the Craftsman compressor pump and tank as unsued

3. Whole hog: both compressors up and running. Rewire the 1.5 hp motor to 220 and put it back on the Sanborn. Space is a big problem as putting both of them in the same small space might not happen and there is only one 30 amp 220 circuit in the garage.

Thoughts?

 

[kunkernator]

How much heat is in the standard air hose you use. My discharge pipe will burn you. Wouldn't think air hose would hold up but if its already in the first tank and cooled a bit it probably be fine. I always think safety.

It is already in the first tank, the outlets from both tanks are tied together. My discharge on my large compressor would melt your hand..... but it has plenty of time to cool before it reaches the tank discharge.

 

[sberry]

You don't have to run them in series.

 

[sam.coll]

If you end up just going with the idea to connect tank only to compressor just use a adequately rated hydraulic hose that matches spare fittings on either tank, no need to move outlet connections, just plumb second tank straight to the compressor 60gal is 60gal it doesn't matter which way its connected, you could even put a ball valve in so when you dont need the extra tank it can be closed and the compressor will only fill the one tank.

 

[volleyball]

Put a manifold on the wall. Run supply from both compressors to it with shutoff in line. Take your air from the coupler(s) on the manifold. You may want to start a piping system

 

[sberry]

Absolutely have done that, connect extra tanks to wall hydrant with a section of hose.

 

[timdp]

If you end up just going with the idea to connect tank only to compressor just use a adequately rated hydraulic hose that matches spare fittings on either tank, no need to move outlet connections, just plumb second tank straight to the compressor 60gal is 60gal it doesn't matter which way its connected, you could even put a ball valve in so when you dont need the extra tank it can be closed and the compressor will only fill the one tank.

Good idea, thanks. Big tank will likely only be used when blasting.

Put a manifold on the wall. Run supply from both compressors to it with shutoff in line. Take your air from the coupler(s) on the manifold. You may want to start a piping system

Never played with air systems before. I understand valves, fittings, pressure gauges etc., but know nothing about assembling them all into an air system. Might need a quickie diagram to get me started.

Need to run one line through a wall to exterior. What should the exterior hardware look like?

 

[Coolabah]

Any ideas on how to plumb another tank to a compressor (4 hp, 20 gallons) to add capacity? Is it as simple as running hose from the outlet of the first compressor to the inlet of the additional tank and moving the outlet plumbing to the new tank?

Thanks,

Tim

I've never actually checked if I'm right in thinking that this is an improvement , but years ago my compressor died. The tank itself was plumbed in so I didn't want to change stuff on the outlet side . So I just connected up the new compressors tank outlet to the inlet of my old tank with a section of airhose. I have found that first tank (new tank) always has oily water to drain , second tank (old tank) has water & oil filter on outlet side which seemed to be less full of stuff after the conversion ie the first tank acts as a natural filter. I think.

 

[volleyball]

There must be a hundred threads on how to build a plumbing system. Problem is they never match your needs. Figure out what you want where. Then it makes it easy to figure out the pipes. Biggest issue is to keep it pitch like drain plumbing so water doesn't get trapped and to have enough shutoffs so if there is a problem, you aren't stuck.
Think about what you want, and present it here ,then we can start the bickering on to how best do it.
If you do iron, I always say plan for expansion. You don't want to have to undo a bunch of work because you didn't plan extra fittings.

 

[timdp]

Will do.

There must be a hundred threads on how to build a plumbing system. Problem is they never match your needs. Figure out what you want where. Then it makes it easy to figure out the pipes. Biggest issue is to keep it pitch like drain plumbing so water doesn't get trapped and to have enough shutoffs so if there is a problem, you aren't stuck.
Think about what you want, and present it here ,then we can start the bickering on to how best do it.
If you do iron, I always say plan for expansion. You don't want to have to undo a bunch of work because you didn't plan extra fittings.

 

[timdp]

All right, I'm ready to plumb this thing. Here is a pic of the setup:



Upper tank is not permanently mounted yet. One leg will get lag bolted into the wall and chocks will get screwed into the 4x4 supports. Have replumbed the lower tank line so that I can actually reach the drain valve. Have stripped all of the old fittings off of the 60 gallon tank, relocated the drain to the bottom in the new position and blocked off all of the extra holes.

Outlet requirements are:
One coupler going up to feed overhead line that feeds the front of the garage.
One coupler to feed this workbench,
One line going through the wall to feed an outdoor coupler and to eventually go underground to feed the shed. There is enough slope to the property to place a line drain under the raised shed.

Was thinking of running the lower compressor outlet line back the to the right hand wall and then over the window and down in the area to the left of the window and down near the floor with a drain valve. Run a horizontal T off of this line to the manifold. One line with valve would run to the 60 gal tank.

Thoughts?

Manifold outlet sizes?

Thanks,

Tim

 

[timdp]

Things were looking a bit complex in the tight space with manifold, regulator and filter and a few valves, so I decided to mock up the complex area in PVC to see how things might fit. How am I doing? Any suggestions appreciated!

Key
Blue=unions
Yellow=valves

Air comes in at the top from the compressor/primary tank after running through 25' of black pipe. Right hand "T" drop goes through the wall to outside. Through-the-wall pipe would have to be removed to make the unions to be usable. Could probably rework that drop to add another indoor union so that the wall pipe would not have to be removed.

Left hand "T" goes to the 60 gal. receiver. Valve can isolate the tank from the system (closed) or (open) add 60 gallons of capacity for higher volume tools.

Piping version 1

 

[CNGsaves]

Dude, sorry to tell it to you straight out . . . but THROW OUT all that PVC **** and start over.

Stand the 60 gal tank upright so you will have DRAIN feature that is critical.

Buy pieces of black pipe steel from big box store already threaded and just put together with couple of pipe wrenches. Buy hydraulic hose from Tractor Supply to connect the compressor to the "airline system" contraption you're putting together.

Drain tanks DAILY of water when heavily used so you don't have rusting tanks adding to your potential problems.

 

[DekeT]

Oh no! Pvc!

 

[Indexmill]

Guys,

You need to read the posts; he only used the PVC pipe as a mock-up... to solicit feedback on the concept.

And, Yes, OP, stand that big tank up so you can drain it from the bottom.

 

[timdp]

Guys, please actually read the post before commenting. I've done a littile pipe before, never with this much stuff in this small of a space. PVC is for mock up purposes only. The yellow fittings are not really valves and the blue fittings are not really unions either... Final build will be black iron pipe with a hydraulic hose to connect compressor to the system.

Re draining the tank, there is a 1/4" fitting half way up the side of the tank that I have rotated to the bottom and plan to use for the drain. You can just see it above the compressor controls in the pic in post #15. Air will cool in the 20 gal primary tank and 25' of iron pipe with its own drain before even reaching the 60 gal tank, so I'm hoping not to see a lot of water in the big tank.

Mounting the big tank vertically is problematic. This area is the only place I can set it up, so its either horizontally or vertically in the corner on top of the compressor. Not sure there is enough room to build a support platform for it and have it clear the HVAC soffitt above it, not to mention stabilizing that much weight up that high in earthquake county.

Tim

 

[thebeekeeper1]

You could easily exceed the duty rating of that little compressor/motor.

 

[kv501]

You could easily exceed the duty rating of that little compressor/motor.

^This.

You can have all the tank volume you want, but if you don't have the compressor CFM and duty cycle to match it you haven't gained anything. Is that tiny compressor going to be able to handle running non-stop?

Anytime I see hodge podge compressor setups I can't help but think that in the long run you're going to be money ahead by just buying an appropriately sized (and matched to tank) unit and be done with it. No goofy plumbing, wiring, burned up motors, etc.

 

[timdp]

You could easily exceed the duty rating of that little compressor/motor.

Possibly, although it does have a 4 hp motor, so its not quite as "little" as it looks. Will need to read up in the manual. I currently don't use a lot of air, but wanted to add capacity to add more time before the compressor cycles for the first time during occasional sandblasting. Have had the compressor since the mid '80s so it has paid for itself. Checked the oil for the very first time last week and it was full and clean. If I do manage to kill it, I will know that I need to get a bigger one next time...

So far this garage reorg has killed one of my Makita 7.2v drill/drivers and my Craftsman 10" band saw (drive gear is slipping on the motor shaft).

 

[NorCalWrenchin]

Thats gonna be nice... wanna see what an unsafe redneck setup looks like?
To be fair, there is a blow off valve, and the inside of the tanks are coated with POR15...

 

[timdp]

Thats gonna be nice... wanna see what an unsafe redneck setup looks like?
To be fair, there is a blow off valve, and the inside of the tanks are coated with POR15...

NICE! Is stuff like that even allowed in California?

Howdy neighbor! I'm just down the road from you, off River Road, near Trenton-Healdsburg Rd.

 

[NorCalWrenchin]

Haha, don't know, don't really care

awesome, I drive right by there, constantly, my parents live in Monte Rio.. I actually live in Windsor, but born/raised, work and play in Healdsburg

 

[timdp]

OK, new and improved layout:

 

[sam.coll]

better go grab the pop corn


This is gonna get interesting!!!

 

[Justanoldguy]

http://fix-my-compressor.com/add-another-air-tank

 

[Justanoldguy]

better go grab the pop corn


This is gonna get interesting!!!

why?

 

[CNGsaves]

Good to hear that the PVC is . . . . for MOCK UP purposes only . . . whew . . . sorry I missed that in your post.

Since you ARE planning on drain for vertical tank turned horizontal, you're on right track and setup will provide extra air volume, likely only causing long initial fills of the tanks.

Good luck putting it together in black pipe steel and hope your older 240v Craftsman compressor holds out for a while !!

 

[volleyball]

I almost posted the same complaints as everyone else to your 6/4 post but I do read and comprehend.
I'd add some couplers to aid in taking it back apart and I'd build in a single low point with a drain valve on it. That way water won't get stuck in any of the lines. Are you planning on running more line in the shop? Maybe a fitting with a plug in it for future expansion.

 

[timdp]

So, I was looking at pics of the IR C38231-600 regulator/filter/lubricator that is coming (thanks to coralnut or the deal tip) and noticed that the inlet is on the left and the outlet is on the right, which is the opposite of what I need. I will have to run the line under the unit and up to the inlet and then go up and over the unit from the outlet, requiring a new pipe layout.

Mocked up two versions. Yellow is valves, blue is unions for disassembly if necessary. Think I like the second one better. Thoughts?

@Justanoldguy: Thanks for the link.

@volleyball: Blue fittings will be unions (couplers). The line that goes down behind the workbench is the drain line. No plans for additional lines. Its very slightly larger than a standard 2 car garage and there is a 50' hose that goes from the manifold up to the ceiling and down the center of the garage towards the garage door and can reach anywhere in the garage. An extension get me to anywhere in the driveway. The line that goes through the wall goes to the back yard and to the shed which houses sandblasters. Currently I have to remove the screen and open the window to run an air line to the shed.

 

[redmondjp]

You could easily exceed the duty rating of that little compressor/motor.

Adding forced-air cooling to the compressor pump and motor can do wonders to increase the duty cycle. It can be a simple as a $19 box fan from Walmart. External temperatures (esp. accurate with a dull black surface) can be monitored with an IR temperature gun.

 

[sberry]

So, I was looking at pics of the IR C38231-600 regulator/filter/lubricator that is coming (thanks to coralnut or the deal tip) and noticed that the inlet is on the left and the outlet is on the right, which is the opposite of what I need.

Wait till you get it. This is way too busy, get a couple pieces of ready made hyd lines and a couple swivels from the farm store.

 

[Finky198]

Just be careful we ran 2 33 gallon tanks off of a
craftsman horizontal like you have for about a year
It ran so much longer per cycle that we fried the pump.
Recently upgraded to a IR 80gal 2stage and will be
adding and extra 42gal of air tank/desiccant dryer

I do feel like regardless of the setup if the compressor cycles
To Long it will get hot and can greatly reduce the life of you system

As others have stated above
fans, intercooler, air conditioning, proper pluming, lower max psi, are all factors of compressor life expectancy

 

[thebeekeeper1]

Adding forced-air cooling to the compressor pump and motor can do wonders to increase the duty cycle. It can be a simple as a $19 box fan from Walmart. External temperatures (esp. accurate with a dull black surface) can be monitored with an IR temperature gun.

Ha! I do that when I sand blast--works great!

 

[timdp]

Adding forced-air cooling to the compressor pump and motor can do wonders to increase the duty cycle. It can be a simple as a $19 box fan from Walmart. External temperatures (esp. accurate with a dull black surface) can be monitored with an IR temperature gun.

Thanks! That I can do, as there is a nice space to the left of the compressor that will hold a box fan quite nicely. Had been wondering what I was going to do with that space, and where the fan was going to go...

Tim

 

[srr]

Thanks! That I can do, as there is a nice space to the left of the compressor that will hold a box fan quite nicely. Had been wondering what I was going to do with that space, and where the fan was going to go...

Tim

Did you ever finish this? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Revelations]

Did you ever finish this? Inquiring minds want to know!

Maybe when the PVC exploded, he was slightly handicaped and can no longer type on a keyboard ?

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