Adding Ceiling lights in Bedrooms

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

So my daughter & her husband moved into a "new" house (5 years old) and I was ecstatic, as that meant I get to not work on the old worn out POS they were living in on every visit. (they live 7+ hours away)

Fast forward a few months and she has quickly learned that not having ceiling lights in the bedrooms upstairs is not ideal.

So I get to install them on our next trip down to visit in a few weeks.

All rooms have a switched outlet, I assume the switch just has a single Romex run to it to interrupt the outlet power.
Would that be how it is done normally?

So the plan is as follows. (Based on that assumption)

A) Pull switch to confirm it uses one single pair
B) Pull outlet & gang together, Hot's & Neutrals
D) pull new wire from attic to switch
E) Install light box in ceiling - yes including cutting the hole
F) Hang light

No I have not been in the attic or pulled any boxes to confirm yet.

 

[Zeke]

As you alluded to, switches are either a leg or they switch power at the switch box. Why not leave the switched plug and add a stack switch at the box? If there is power there all you need is to run up to the new box in the ceiling.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

As you alluded to, switches are either a leg or they switch power at the switch box. Why not leave the switched plug and add a stack switch at the box? If there is power there all you need is to run up to the new box in the ceiling.

IF there is power at the switch it will be MUCH less time consuming.
However I am doubting that is how it was done.
If only switching a leg, then there will be no neutral in the box.

She does not want the outlets on the switch, so they will be converted back to constant power.
Which means I'm pulling the outlet to rewire them anyways.

Either way it will get done, I was more curious how New Construction is normally done.
I have NEVER owned a new home. Normally working on old, WTH were they thinking wiring......

 

[jlv03]

Pulling a neutral to switches was made code (NEC) a few cycles ago.

I would still leave the receptacle switched, but put in an old work box to allow for multiple switches.

 

[Shiftless]

Pulling a neutral to switches was made code (NEC) a few cycles ago.

I would still leave the receptacle switched, but put in an old work box to allow for multiple switches.

Two switches. Good idea. That way, a person could walk in and either turn on the overhead light or a lamp or something else that was plugged in to the switched outlet. Choices are good.

 

[PCustoms]

I'd put in an old work fan box.

For the switch/power you've got options once you know how what is there is done. What is Access like above?

 

[mrVanagon]

These can be handy if you can get power to the ceiling light but can't/don't want to run a cable between the switch and the new light. You would need to use Hue bulbs (and a hub) but they work perfectly at what they're supposed to do.

Hue Philips Hue wall switch module | Philips Hue US

Installed behind light switches, the Philips Hue wall switch module lets you use existing switches with your Philips Hue smart lights. Your lights always stay powered on and reachable — and you can even use the switch to set multiple scenes on an individual light or in a Room or Zone.

www.philips-hue.com

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I'd put in an old work fan box.

For the switch/power you've got options once you know how what is there is done. What is Access like above?

I have yet to be in the attic space. Hoping for clear access to all.
Will be putting fan boxes in all rooms, although only one is getting a fan at this time.

On the fan I plan to put in a duplex switch in the existing single gang box, so the fan and light can be switched at the door.

Pulling a neutral to switches was made code (NEC) a few cycles ago.

I would still leave the receptacle switched, but put in an old work box to allow for multiple switches.

This is what I was looking for, great information that a neutral should be in the box.

In the other bedrooms I will see what I have and move forward from there.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[captain14]

Make sure you do attic work during cool/cold weather. Nothing beats working in a confined space with sauna conditions along with insulation.

Is there electric plugs in the attic for a drop light? Now is the ideal time to add them.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Make sure you do attic work during cool/cold weather. Nothing beats working in a confined space with sauna conditions along with insulation.

Is there electric plugs in the attic for a drop light? Now is the ideal time to add them.

I will be doing the work first weekend of February, Martinsburg WV so about the coolest / coldest it can be.

No idea on the service outlets, from what I know their furnace is up there so I would expect there to be.

 

[Zeke]

If you don't have to go down the wall that will make things easier. Always blocking near a door and switch box.

The neutral requirement is for devices that send a little current to ground such as motion detectors and programable switches. If you can do all the work in the attic using JB's, this job will go quickly.

 

[nadogail]

Please be aware of assumptions, the root word Assume is made up of three common words. Two of those words are You & Me, the third describes someone who mistakenly acts on their erroneous assumption.

Although “half hots” are commonly used to provide lighting, you can’t be assured that whom ever wired the house followed any standard method.

You may have to open boxes and access the attic to make a good plan to succeed.

If you locate the switch leg you can install those LED modules and “romex” with relative ease. TV

 

[sparky 1971]

At only five years old, you should be lucky enough to have a neutral in the switch box per either the 2008 or 2011 code. If you're really lucky, whoever wired the house used fiberglass boxes. Just pry the box off the stud and cut the nails with a pair of dykes then you can work it around and get it out of the hole after you make the hole large enough to accomodate the new two or three gang box. If it's fiberglass, you can break it up and let it fall inside the wall. Then get an Arlington F102 (two gang) for a fan/light or F103 (three gang) if you want to still keep the switched receptacle. The Arlington boxes screw to the stud. If it were me, I'd bypass the switch leg for the receptacle and go with a two gang. A 14/3 should be able to drop right down the wall to the switch, and since the hole will be opened up to at least a two gang, you should be able to reach around and find the cable and pull it out.

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/specialty-boxes/one-box-non-metallic-outlet-boxes/

I wouldn't screw around with an old work fan box, they are a PITA. Make a 4" hole in the ceiling then go up and measure the length between the trusses which should be 22-1/2". Have someone cut a 2X4 and pass it up through the hole. Screw it on so it's somewhat centered over the hole and on the drywall, then use a fan rated pancake box.

If you want to get real fancy, get a Magnepull and have someone below to roll the puller with the wire already attached to the hole. Make the kids buy it for you since I expect this is going to be a freebie.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MW9A8AY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I used those screw in boxes on my garage build, nice units and easy to use.

Nothing will be done until I fully asses the existing wiring and access.

Just trying to be prepared.

I do plan to use fan boxes with mechanical fastening in the attic. Those old work fan boxes are expensive - especially since all should be accessible from the attic space.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

3 rooms have power to the switch then 14/3 to the outlets thru the attic. One switched & one constant. Which means I can do those rooms with junction box in the attic.

The one room that can’t, is the bedroom with the furnace over the room in attic. (Of course) As the 14/3 goes from the switch down the wall to the outlet. This room will get a double switch box and another 14/2 pulled down from the attic.

We will see if this is a 1 day job for Dad / Grandpa.

 

[captain14]

Will you have a helper on this job? It will make it easier than up and down ladders as you work through the project.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Yeah no helpers willing to work with this crotchety old man.

Two rooms down today, two more tomorrow.

Found a bird nest in the one exhaust fan ducting while up there. So add that to the fixit list while here.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Apparently I should have blocked off the vent after taking it apart yesterday awaiting the fix.

Birds in the attic now

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Hand full of junction boxes and re-wiring switches took me two 1/2 days. Nothing hard, just frustrating climbing around attic and keeping track of tools in the blown in insulation.

Ended up replacing a 6” insulated duct from one bath fans due to birds making it their home. Added a 1/2” hardware cloth screen into the exterior vent.

Dad / Grandpa duties done for the weekend.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Make sure you do attic work during cool/cold weather. Nothing beats working in a confined space with sauna conditions along with insulation.

Is there electric plugs in the attic for a drop light? Now is the ideal time to add them.

Weather was perfect, there are already courtesy outlets at both ends of the attic. Not that I needed them with cordless tools these days. It did make it convenient for when I needed to land a outlet that needed power. Same circuit to boot.