Adding dye to concrete to a giant pour

[Roothawg]

I am meeting with my concrete guy tomorrow and I was wondering what your thoughts were on adding dyes/powders to concrete in the truck?

I have heard there can be some differences in color between trucks etc. This is a 3200 SF building pour plus 480 sf of porch. My shop is a working shop, so it will be used and abused. I thought the dyes might provide color if the concrete gets chipped etc.

I may top seal it with something as well. I am not sure what the cost will be for the dye yet.

Thanks,

Root

 

[benjy]

That's a big pour, I did a 1500 sf workshop plus aprons & steps worth a color hardener troweled in, the hardener was about $40 per bucket, bought 12 buckets & only used half.

No additional labor cost as they were troweling anyway, did tip since they didn't fuss about me adding it to their scope.

Only chip so far is from dropping a 6" vise that was sitting on a bench. Didn't patch a it's now covered by a wall, any future chips I'll mix up some hardener & cement a little darker than existing & smoosh in like I'm patching drywall.

Full dye in concrete might be pricey for the dye and to clean out the truck afterwards. I know when we do red concrete on construction jobs, we try to dump the dye on top of ductbanks & rake into the top few inches if QC will allow.

Should be some pics in my profile of my concrete job

 

[geneg]

That's a big pour, I did a 1500 sf workshop plus aprons & steps worth a color hardener troweled in, the hardener was about $40 per bucket, bought 12 buckets & only used half.

No additional labor cost as they were troweling anyway, did tip since they didn't fuss about me adding it to their scope.

Only chip so far is from dropping a 6" vise that was sitting on a bench. Didn't patch a it's now covered by a wall, any future chips I'll mix up some hardener & cement a little darker than existing & smoosh in like I'm patching drywall.

Full dye in concrete might be pricey for the dye and to clean out the truck afterwards. I know when we do red concrete on construction jobs, we try to dump the dye on top of ductbanks & rake into the top few inches if QC will allow.

Should be some pics in my profile of my concrete job

Cleaned a bunch of failed drywells & added new stone to them in existing branch bank's asphalt parking lots. We had to cut out the sunken pavement. Back then, all of the asphalt plants closed from Thanksgiving until spring. So paving was not an option. The property mgr wouldn't accept patches, so we used the dry black powder to the chutes as we poured & shook it on & floated it into the new concrete surfaces. It was blacker than the existing asphalt, but didn't really stick out. When they did their maintenance sealcoating at the end of the next summer, they went right over everything, The only real advice is to not get it on your skin, one of our finishers was black up to the elbows until it wore off.

We also did some exposed aggregate driveways & sidewalks with red (like McDonalds walks). Similar process, but washed the soup off the surface to expose the gravel. Early 70's still looks good today except where the road salt has gotten to it.

For inside a building, I''d probably just use a shake on hardener.

 

[Denwood]

We did a 4500 square foot pour (with dye) in the hopes of just finishing it and sealing. The dye was a waste of time. Color consistency was not there between batches and we ended up epoxy coating anyway.

 

[ConCretin]

My shop is a working shop, so it will be used and abused. I thought the dyes might provide color if the concrete gets chipped etc.

First off, congrats on the new shop! With regard to integral color, I'm not clear on what your goal is. Chips in a colored floor will be as or more visible in a plain gray floor and more complicated to repair if it became necessary.

Dyed concrete is primarily a decorative product that will get pricey on a floor that large depending on the color you choose - some colors are a lot more expensive than others. A colored floor with a nice shiny sealer can be beautiful but it doesn't seem like that's your highest priority.

 

[Matty J]

You have a quite a few options for colored concrete floors.

During the pour you can use:

-Integral Color - This is usually a mix of granules (powder) that is mixed into the concrete truck, and colors the concrete all the way through. Sometimes the batch plants have liquid dyes that I have heard of, but ive only ever used the powdered type. I usually source my own integral color, and put it into the truck myself. Usually the integral color is in paper bags that are supposed to dissolve, but they often dont and will leave defects in your concrete. I always take my integral color, dump the bags into a bucket, and pour that into the truck. With integral color, if you scratch or chip your concrete, you wont really see a color difference. The downside to integral color is there can be variations in color from truck to truck, especially if pouring on a hot day and the concrete contractors need to add more water to the mix to keep it from setting up. Usually integral color costs like $20 per yard of concrete and then the dispatch plant will charge you another $50-$100 for a wash out fee.

- Color Hardener - This is also a powder type mix, that is broadcast onto the surface and troweled in during the finishing process. Color hardener is nice because you get a consistent color across the surface, and it actually makes the concrete surface slightly more durable (hence the name). There are a couple of downsides to color hardener. It is super messy, since you are throwing the powder all over the slab. It will get on whatever is around the slab. It's somewhat tricky to use if you arent familiar with it. A bucket of color hardener is usually $60-$80 and one bucket will usually do 100 sq ft.

After the pour, one your concrete slab has cured for at least 28 days:

- Concrete Stains or Dyes. You can do a "grind, stain, seal" where the concrete would be ground down to open up the cap and then stain it using something like a water based stain or an acetone based dye. And then you would seal it with various different types of sealers.


There are also some more options, but these are the more common options.

 

[dcg9381]

The advantage of mixing it in is that it's going to stay in the concrete. If you do what I like to do, which is water or acid dye your concrete and then coat, you can lose that coloring on outdoor applications... You'd think the dye would stay on, but often it doesn't with rain or direct exposure...

 

[Dig Doug]

I am meeting with my concrete guy tomorrow and I was wondering what your thoughts were on adding dyes/powders to concrete in the truck?

I have heard there can be some differences in color between trucks etc. This is a 3200 SF building pour plus 480 sf of porch. My shop is a working shop, so it will be used and abused. I thought the dyes might provide color if the concrete gets chipped etc.

I may top seal it with something as well. I am not sure what the cost will be for the dye yet.

Thanks,

Root

If you want certain sections to have a color have it done at the batch plant during the loading process of the truck

if you want to add a color on site after the truck arrives, then mix it in, then pour & place the concrete - I wouldn’t trust that to be a uniform mix

 

[Matty J]

If you want certain sections to have a color have it done at the batch plant during the loading process of the truck

if you want to add a color on site after the truck arrives, then mix it in, then pour & place the concrete - I wouldn’t trust that to be a uniform mix

At least in my area, the batch plants get the integral color from the same supplier I get it from as a concrete contractor. The only difference is they will just throw the color into the mixer in the "dissolvable bags" that dont always dissolve, where as I dont put those bags in the mixer because they can cause issues.

 

[jeepinerdeep]

If you are asking about powder integral colors, I'd save that for the porch. But I'm curious as to some of the other options mentioned here.

 

[Roothawg]

It's actually for the shop floor. I thought it might hold up better.
I wish I could just add something that would seal the concrete to prevent staining. I might just acid etch it and seal it with a matte clear of some sort.

 

[Matty J]

It's actually for the shop floor. I thought it might hold up better.
I wish I could just add something that would seal the concrete to prevent staining.

After it’s poured, apply a cure and seal. And then after it’s cured for 30+ days, you can put a more substantial sealer on it.

 

[Roothawg]

After it’s poured, apply a cure and seal. And then after it’s cured for 30+ days, you can put a more substantial sealer on it.

Don't assume I am a concrete expert, I don't know squat about finishes. What is a cure and seal exactly?

 

[Shea]

Don't assume I am a concrete expert, I don't know squat about finishes. What is a cure and seal exactly?

A cure and seal is a clear acrylic film-forming topical sealer that can be applied as soon as you can walk on the concrete. The main benefit is to help retain moisture in the concrete to achieve a more uniform cure. They also protect the concrete from moisture and spills at the surface and help with easier cleanup.

Keep in mind that they are also one of the least effective and least durable concrete sealers. If you want to apply something more suitable to a working environment, it will first require that you remove the cure and seal material from the surface via grinding.

 

[jhelrey]

 

[bronuc]

Davis Colors Concrete Pigments - Davis Colors

Davis Colors has the widest standard and custom colors in the concrete industry. When it comes to concrete color, what color will you choose?

www.daviscolors.com

What the local ready mix places use. The way you finish the concrete and how it is sealed can have quite an effect on how the color turns out, especially when wet.

 

[Retroman]

How about Ashford Formula as densifer they use it in big box stores and warehouses around here.

 

[benjy]

It's actually for the shop floor. I thought it might hold up better.
I wish I could just add something that would seal the concrete to prevent staining. I might just acid etch it and seal it with a matte clear of some sort.

I sealed mine with euclid super diamond clear

Laying down Euclid Super Diamond Clear

www.garagejournal.com

 

[beltfeed]

I have done a few stamped concrete walks. 15-20 years ago, the base color would be added as a bag powder into the barrel right at the pour sight. The concrete plant by me now has offered a liquid dye injected into the mix as it's going in the truck for at least 10 years. The bag powder mixes do vary truck to truck a lot more than liquid dye injection at the plant. I would not do a pour that big with a bag colorant.

 

[BombShelter]

Stamped and dyed concrete was huge up here 15 years ago and some were really nice looking initially but when I revisit projects, they look dated and "dirty" now. I highly doubt the owners are doing any maintanance like cleaning and resealing, the shiny gloss of a new project is long gone.

I was always intrigued by staining, our supplier said if you get sick of a color you can "bleach" out the stain with muriatic acid and change the color.

Personally I like the glossy natural look, I was just working on a 100 year old factory and they had very uneven floors but they cleaned them up and put some sort of thick clear seal over it so you could see the imperfections in the floor.

 

[RPH]

Did my shop with 4 different colors of acid stain. These were randomly sprayed. One can see the minerals in the pour vary as the stain reacts with them. Some areas the green sticks out and others the red. After that ghostshield products were applied. The denisfier and 8505 covered the concrete. This has worked exceptionally well for a working shop.

 

[Roothawg]

So, what kinda time are we talking about to apply the densifier?