Adding new breaker to main panel

[howdo]

Planning on adding a 30 amp, double pole 240v breaker to my 100 amp main panel in house. The reason for doing this is so I can run 240v out to detached garage.
When I look at the main panel with cover on, it looks like I have room for a double pol breaker, but when I take the cover off, I dont understand how I would fit another breaker in. There is already 1 240 v double pol breaker in there (top right) for the a/c. It looks like it crosses over to the other vertical bus bar, and I dont understand how I could fit another double pol across from it

Thoughts?

thanks,
howdo

 

[bobbyjean]

i think you will need to use some "piggy back" breakers to create the space you need, noticed its all emt and bx feed's...less wire's in panel.
lots of info here about how to do hook up in detatched structure

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The twin on the top right is taking up half of one of the spaces you need for the new double pole.

You will need to move that twin to the top right in order to fit the new double pole.

Also, looks like you have a GE panel. That breaker with the green handles is a Bryant and not listed for use in GE panels. It Needs to be replaced with the proper GE breaker.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Why not use the top two slots on the left side? It's going to be a fatty like your existing 30A DP...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Or you could just leave the ge panel by the curb for the garbage man where it belongs,then replace it with a decent panel.

 

[Norcal]

Or you could just leave the ge panel by the curb for the garbage man where it belongs,then replace it with a decent panel.

I'll take GE over a Eaton BR Zinsco II panel, if it needed a upgrade then GE would not be a choice. In any product type there has to be a product/manufacturer at the bottom, & the BR line of panels fit that.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I'll take GE over a Eaton BR Zinsco II panel, if it needed a upgrade then GE would not be a choice. In any product type there has to be a product/manufacturer at the bottom, & the BR line of panels fit that.

I've installed a total of 1 Eaton panel over the years,never again.

 

[dscheidt]

Planning on adding a 30 amp, double pole 240v breaker to my 100 amp main panel in house. The reason for doing this is so I can run 240v out to detached garage.
Thoughts?

thanks,
howdo

Detached structures are allowed only a single circuit going to them. If you already have 120 there, you cannot, per the NEC, do this. You need to install a subpanel in the garage. And if you're doing that, 30A is much too small.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Detached structures are allowed only a single circuit going to them. If you already have 120 there, you cannot, per the NEC, do this. You need to install a subpanel in the garage. And if you're doing that, 30A is much too small.

It all depends on what he plans to run out there,30a may be plenty.

 

[ard]

It all depends on what he plans to run out there,30a may be plenty.

True.

1. The statement that you cannot run two branch circuits to a detached structure' is still accurate.

2. Perhaps the more accurate statement is "since you can only run one circuit, you need to re-examine that 30A and see if a 30A 240V subpanel will supply the new 240 you need PLUS the existing 120V loads."

Not arguing, wanting to make sure the OP understands....

 

[howdo]

Yes, this is a GE service panel. It says it can work with TQP, TQL, THQ and TXP breakers. I'll try to find out what curerent breakers are compatible with that, and also replace the bryant DP that is already there.

Just a little more background for the project...
Main goal is to add a 240v service to 20x22 garage, so I can run a 5000 heater (20.8 amps) I purchased. Theres only 120 v service out there now, no panel. I am likely moving in a few years, so I am trying to do this on the cheap. I know the ideal way is to put in a 240 panel (60a) in garage and run 120v service and 240v heater from that panel. But, doing that will increase the cost. I had 3 electricians tell me that it is ok to run 240v out to garage while I keep existing 120v as long as the 240v is hard wired to the heater. There was a problem getting them to show up, and 1 was crazy expensive, so now Im thinking I would do the job myself. Basically, I would run a 3/4" conduit to garage (10 AWG wire), with the 240v service, and have a 30 amp double pole switch for the heater, no panel. And keep 120 v as is.

thanks for all the responses!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

True.

1. The statement that you cannot run two branch circuits to a detached structure' is still accurate.

2. Perhaps the more accurate statement is "since you can only run one circuit, you need to re-examine that 30A and see if a 30A 240V subpanel will supply the new 240 you need PLUS the existing 120V loads."

Not arguing, wanting to make sure the OP understands....

 

[malibu101]

Just get a GE THQP230 and plug it in.
Example- https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...targid=kwd-13114912624&ref=pd_sl_5hdn4fn4fz_e

EDIT- I see THQP is not listed for your panel. Since it's not listed technically it is a no-go.
Sorry.

OR just do like EOC Jason said.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Yes, this is a GE service panel. It says it can work with TQP, TQL, THQ and TXP breakers. I'll try to find out what curerent breakers are compatible with that, and also replace the bryant DP that is already there.

Just a little more background for the project...
Main goal is to add a 240v service to 20x22 garage, so I can run a 5000 heater (20.8 amps) I purchased. Theres only 120 v service out there now, no panel. I am likely moving in a few years, so I am trying to do this on the cheap. I know the ideal way is to put in a 240 panel (60a) in garage and run 120v service and 240v heater from that panel. But, doing that will increase the cost. I had 3 electricians tell me that it is ok to run 240v out to garage while I keep existing 120v as long as the 240v is hard wired to the heater. There was a problem getting them to show up, and 1 was crazy expensive, so now Im thinking I would do the job myself. Basically, I would run a 3/4" conduit to garage (10 AWG wire), with the 240v service, and have a 30 amp double pole switch for the heater, no panel. And keep 120 v as is.

thanks for all the responses!

Jumping up to 1 1/4" pvc is only a few bucks more than 3/4" then you could pull #6 wire out there to feed a small sub pa el to run everything.
Then you cut just cut off the existing power going to the garage.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Sounds like a plan...

When you say switch, I'm guessing you are thinking about something like this? It will certainly work for your heater, and is rated as such... That is one way to go... If you do be sure to label above the switch so others know what it is for!

If you are doing surface-mount in the garage you could also use one of these as a safety disconnect before your heater. That way during the warmer months you can cut power there for safety, and if you have kids you can put a lock on it or something just to prevent anyone from fidgeting with it.

Or with the first switch you can always throw the DP breaker in your panel during warm months too...

 

[dscheidt]

Jumping up to 1 1/4" pvc is only a few bucks more than 3/4" then you could pull #6 wire out there to feed a small sub pa el to run everything.
Then you cut just cut off the existing power going to the garage.

then, when you sell, you can say "electric car ready".

 

[teamextreme]

I had 3 electricians tell me that it is ok to run 240v out to garage while I keep existing 120v as long as the 240v is hard wired to the heater.

Then you spoke to 3 electricians that don't know their code and I would avoid using their services.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why not use the top two slots on the left side? It's going to be a fatty like your existing 30A DP...

whoops.

missed that in my small phone screen. good catch

I've installed a total of 1 Eaton panel over the years,never again.

Nothing wrong with Eaton CH...

Detached structures are allowed only a single circuit going to them. If you already have 120 there, you cannot, per the NEC, do this. You need to install a subpanel in the garage. And if you're doing that, 30A is much too small.

Good catch. Im usually the first to ask that but forgot this time... :thumb_up

Yes, this is a GE service panel. It says it can work with TQP, TQL, THQ and TXP breakers. I'll try to find out what curerent breakers are compatible with that, and also replace the bryant DP that is already there.

Just a little more background for the project...
Main goal is to add a 240v service to 20x22 garage, so I can run a 5000 heater (20.8 amps) I purchased. Theres only 120 v service out there now, no panel. I am likely moving in a few years, so I am trying to do this on the cheap. I know the ideal way is to put in a 240 panel (60a) in garage and run 120v service and 240v heater from that panel. But, doing that will increase the cost. I had 3 electricians tell me that it is ok to run 240v out to garage while I keep existing 120v as long as the 240v is hard wired to the heater. There was a problem getting them to show up, and 1 was crazy expensive, so now Im thinking I would do the job myself. Basically, I would run a 3/4" conduit to garage (10 AWG wire), with the 240v service, and have a 30 amp double pole switch for the heater, no panel. And keep 120 v as is.

thanks for all the responses!

If you run 240v out there, the 120v service MUST be abandoned if you want it code compliant. And if you dont and then sell the place, you could have an issue with there being 2 feds.

Those 3 electricians didnt know what they were talking about. There is no exception that allows what they suggested. Find someone else...

Then you spoke to 3 electricians that don't know their code and I would avoid using their services.

Thought i heard it all til i read this. No exception allowing dual feeds that those electricians spoke of.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Eaton/Cutler hammer panels are a pita to wire compared to home line to me anyway.