Adding outlet in a closet

[rharman]

I have a closet in our living room where I would like to add an outlet for charging a vacuum. Other side of the wall is a light switch for a curio-type hutch.

I have about 1-3/4" space behind the existing box so a shallow box would be the only option if I want back-to-back. However, I can mount it offset from the switch box and use a standard depth. I figured I can just loop a short romex from existing to new.

I checked the switch box and hot & neutral both pass through it. Any issues/concerns? Additional load is next to nil.

Thanks.

 

[tonyprovo723]

I don't have an official valid answer. Sounds like a reasonable idea.

Does the closet have a light already installed? If so, it may be simpler to change out the fixture to one with an outlet or run WireMold if the light fixture location is not practical for a charger.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[Git]

I have done similar in the past - adding another 'old work' box offset from the existing one. Once you cut the hole for the new box, you should have plenty of room to get the wire into the old one

I had a friend who was an electrician at the time and he said he could actually special order a 'through the wall" or double sided box, but I was under a time constraint so I passed on his offer. Since then I have searched on the internet for such a box, with zero luck

Again, I am not an electrician, but if you have a hot, neutral and ground you should be good to go. I think you may have problems with wire fill if you tried to add the pancake box

 

[PhysicsDude]

Do it. That circuit with the light switch probably already has half a dozen outlets on it.

I don't see any reason to do it back-to-back. In my years as a commercial electrician I've never seen anyone do that. Just cut in a box where ever you want it (in the same stud space) and run a little piece of Romex to the switch box. I would think you'd want it lower to the ground, or near a shelf, or something like that.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Outlets aren't allowed in closets.

 

[Shawn S]

Part number is CTDW you can Google it and find a few places to buy it.
https://buy.wesco.com/Switch-Device...le-Steel-4-5-16-in-Depth/CTDW/p/78599110470-1

 

[pattenp]

Outlets aren't allowed in closets.

Do you mind citing the NEC section that says no?

 

[PoorOwner]

Outlets aren't allowed in closets.

Are walk in closet, closets?
Walk in closet or even sliding door closets, often have outets for A/V and alarm system..

 

[CJ7VFR]

Outlets aren't allowed in closets.

If this is true, I wonder why, since light fixtures are allowed in there. I can see not allowing them because of the potential of a fire, but doesn't a light fixture pose that also?

And I can't even tell you how many times I have seen people who wanted an outlet in their closet, and went out and bought one of those screw in bulb socket things that have the two prong female receptacles on them. The people remove the bulb, screw in the socket adapter, put the bulb into that, and then plug stuff into the two receptacles.

I know that can't even possibly be up to code, but I see people do it all the time.

Jim

 

[CJ7VFR]

This is true per the code we were under.
Two of us have now said such. It makes for a very compelling case of asking locally instead of globally.

But:
The reason behind the code is obscure.

I found this in the 2008 NEC while I was searching on Google:

Closets are specifically mentioned in section 210.12(B):

Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Was this taken out in later editions of the NEC?

Jim

 

[pattenp]

Nothing in the NEC says an outlet can't be placed in a closet. But someone's local code may not allow it.

NEC 210.12 is for arc fault protection, requiring it for outlets in closets. Still in the NEC.

 

[Chris705]

I have a 2011NEC and it appears to be the same as you posted Jim.....

I do code work in over 100 jurisdictions spread out along the Atlantic coast. I am not sure I have ever seen a municipality alter the NEC or add to it.....I am pretty sure at one point incandescent lights were not permitted in 24" deep closets....we always specified use of florescent lamp fixtures back then...

 

[Jeepster04]

Added an outlet in a closet for the exact same reason. I got lucky and the cavity already had an outlet on the other side of the wall. Once the hole was cut it was easy to fish the romex into the other box.

 

[dave*99]

I have a 2011NEC and it appears to be the same as you posted Jim.....

I do code work in over 100 jurisdictions spread out along the Atlantic coast. I am not sure I have ever seen a municipality alter the NEC or add to it.....I am pretty sure at one point incandescent lights were not permitted in 24" deep closets....we always specified use of florescent lamp fixtures back then...

I did a large addition and remodel of my garage in 2010 (central NJ) The house was built in 1986. I applied for permits and my drawings came back stamped "GFCI/AFCI required"

I installed new outlets for the garage door openers and fed all from GFCI circuits. I think this became a requirement in the 2008 cycle of the NEC.

I had the inspector in for rough inspection and I mentioned my concern for nuisance trips on the Garage door opener circuit. He stated that our municipality adopted the 2008 code with some exceptions. They did not require the ceiling mounted garage door opener receptacles to be GFCI protected. I switched some things around based on that. Passed final without GFCI on those receptacles. He tested all the other receptacles for GFCI protection. I doubt this exception still exists today. But only the AHJ knows for sure.

 

[Richard Cranium]

my wife's walk in closet has an outlet in it, and the inspector didn't say any thing about it.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Do you mind citing the NEC section that says no?

Plugs haven't been allowed in closets in Nebraska as long as I can remember,and thats going clear back into the 70s.
I can make a call in the morning and get an answer for you.

 

[prostreetamx]

I have plugs in several of my closets and I wired my house about 15 years ago but before AFCI's. Local jurisdictions do indeed over ride the NEC in some cases. Our local code changes used to be a pamphlet and now are a decent size booklet. Many deal with issues of excess heat for outdoor applications but there are lots of residential changes. I've never had an issue here with plugs in even smaller closets since it is pretty common to put an alarm plug, charging plug or other use plugs in closets. They no longer let you put sub panels in closets anymore unless it is a dedicated equipment closet.

 

[rharman]

We remodeled our house (second story) in 1993 and many closets, except this one, have an outlet.

I didn't think there would be an issue but wanted to get some more expert opinions. The AFCI info is good to know.

That thru-the-wall box is a non-starter due to existing construction. I am likely going to mount this slightly above and offset from the switch. Switch box is 3" deep.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Plugs haven't been allowed in closets in Nebraska as long as I can remember,and thats going clear back into the 70s.
I can make a call in the morning and get an answer for you.

"Plugs" go on the end of a cord.
"Outlets" or "Receptacles" are what you're discussing.

 

[woodzy]

I have a large walk in closet that is on the other side of the wall from the kitchen. I had an outlet that ran to the refrigerator and went off that to the closet. When the inspector showed up, he said that I could not run the outlet from the refrigerator to the closet, but I could add the outlet off the closet light circuit which was right there so was just a quick fix. Didn't ask question just move the wire. No big deal. I think it had to do with they wanted the kitchen stuff on a kitchen circuit and not to head to another room.

 

[malibu101]

I found this in the 2008 NEC while I was searching on Google:

Closets are specifically mentioned in section 210.12(B):

Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Was this taken out in later editions of the NEC?

Jim

Looking at 2017 NEC and it is written a little differently than above, but, it still includes that outlets in closets must be AFCI protected.
So if they must be AFCI protected how can they not be allowed?

FWIW, Article 100 Definitions- doesn't define a "closet" but it does define a "clothes closet" as: A nonhabitable room or space intended primarily for storage of garments and apparel.

EDIT- Not relavent to this discussion but I found clothes closet in 240.24 (D)-
"Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, such as clothes closets."

As well as 424.38 (B) (1)- Basically says that: electric space heating cables can not be installed in closets. With a small exception (C).

 

[Git]

So if we all put the rule books down for a second, is there really a GOOD reason not to have an outlet in a closet

Just to clarify, use a little common sense - running a meth lab or an electric heater next to all your clothes would be a good reason...

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

There is no code that states receptacles are not allowed in closets.

If you want a receptacle in your closet go for it.

 

[MikeF2316]

I have a large walk in closet that is on the other side of the wall from the kitchen. I had an outlet that ran to the refrigerator and went off that to the closet. When the inspector showed up, he said that I could not run the outlet from the refrigerator to the closet, but I could add the outlet off the closet light circuit which was right there so was just a quick fix. Didn't ask question just move the wire. No big deal. I think it had to do with they wanted the kitchen stuff on a kitchen circuit and not to head to another room.

I think fridges need to be on their own circuits.

I've installed outlets on the other stud. Get one of those boxes that you can screw into on an angle. I've always preferred the solid mount of a screw going into 2x4. It's easy to run a short piece of NMD-90 from out the old box through the new hole.

 

[ripperd]

my wife's walk in closet has an outlet in it, and the inspector didn't say any thing about it.

We just had a house built this fall and we added an outlet in my wife's walk in closet. National builder. They didn't say anything, passed all inspections and moved in this week.

 

[dscheidt]

"Plugs" go on the end of a cord.
"Outlets" or "Receptacles" are what you're discussing.

Outlets are where something is powered from the building wiring. A light fixture is an outlet. So is a receptacle outlet, which you plug a plug into.

 

[dscheidt]

I think fridges need to be on their own circuits.

Common practice, and a reasonably good idea, but not required by the NEC. some manufacturers specify it for some models.

 

[malibu101]

OK
Plug vs outlet........

Webster dictionary says about a plug- " : a male fitting for making an electrical connection to a live circuit by insertion in a receptacle (such as an outlet)
b : a device for connecting electric wires to a jack"
Whole credit given to- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plug?src=search-dict-box

Webster dictionary says about an outlet- ": a receptacle for the plug of an electrical device"
Whole credit given to- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outlet

 

[dscheidt]

OK
Plug vs outlet........

Webster dictionary says about a plug- " : a male fitting for making an electrical connection to a live circuit by insertion in a receptacle (such as an outlet)
b : a device for connecting electric wires to a jack"
Whole credit given to- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plug?src=search-dict-box

Webster dictionary says about an outlet- ": a receptacle for the plug of an electrical device"
Whole credit given to- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outlet

If you're going to be pedant, you should be right, and cite the right source. Many words, terms, and phrases have code definitions that are rather different from ordinary usage.

Article 100 of the NEC says, in pertinent part,

"Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

"Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke."

"Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed."

 

[Dragfluid]

So if we all put the rule books down for a second, is there really a GOOD reason not to have an outlet in a closet

Just to clarify, use a little common sense - running a meth lab or an electric heater next to all your clothes would be a good reason...

Exactly. I do all my cooking out in the kitchen. More convenient if I want a snack while working.

 

[ard]

If you're going to be pedant, you should be right, and cite the right source. Many words, terms, and phrases have code definitions that are rather different from ordinary usage.

Article 100 of the NEC says, in pertinent part,

"Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

"Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke."

"Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed."

Chill.

Why do all electrical forums devolve into nitpicking?

I see you are new. Why not get a sense of the forum's norms before lecturing?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

If this is true, I wonder why, since light fixtures are allowed in there. I can see not allowing them because of the potential of a fire, but doesn't a light fixture pose that also?

And I can't even tell you how many times I have seen people who wanted an outlet in their closet, and went out and bought one of those screw in bulb socket things that have the two prong female receptacles on them. The people remove the bulb, screw in the socket adapter, put the bulb into that, and then plug stuff into the two receptacles.

I know that can't even possibly be up to code, but I see people do it all the time.

Jim

The only lights we can install in a closet with in 50 miles of my location anyway has to have the bulb enclosed in sealed cover to protect it.
I'm sure that may also just be a Nebraska thong also without burying my head in the nec.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

"Plugs" go on the end of a cord.
"Outlets" or "Receptacles" are what you're discussing.

I can call an outlet a plug to any electrician who has been on the job for more than 10 mins and they'll know what I'm talking about.
I can also substitute the word Rome for nm cable and get the same result.
Get over the word smithing already.

 

[Dragfluid]

They are outlet receptacles, not outlets or receptacles. The outlet is the potential terminus if it has a receptacle that allows the goods to be outlet to a secondary, non integral, receiver.
so your
It's not plug its an outlet or receptacle
Guy is wrong.
If you're going to correct, be correct.

I don't mind the occasional
'hey, just so you don't do it in front of your boss, it's
Could have
Not
Could of.'

But the whole
'I negate your argument based on my inability to abstract'
Is just out of line.

Which brings me to magazine versus clip.
It is actually magazine tube versus clip.
The magazine is what holds the magazine tube that many of you call a clip.

If you're going to correct, be correct

****,,,,,,,,,,,, what about the shoulder thing that goes up?

 

[alfredeneuman]

.

Which brings me to magazine versus clip.
It is actually magazine tube versus clip.
The magazine is what holds the magazine tube that many of you call a clip.

If you're going to correct, be correct

This is only true if the Magazine is tubular, and not all magazines are. (ie, handguns)
If you're going to correct, be correct

 

[mike93lx]

There is no code that states receptacles are not allowed in closets.

If you want a receptacle in your closet go for it.

no code at all? anywhere? impressive amount of research and knowledge behind that statement...

 

[CJ7VFR]

The only lights we can install in a closet with in 50 miles of my location anyway has to have the bulb enclosed in sealed cover to protect it.
I'm sure that may also just be a Nebraska thong also without burying my head in the nec.

My house was built in 1955, with re-models up to about 1982. All of the light fixtures in all of my closets, except for one, are just a small porcelain screw in light bulb fixture with a pull chain, and an exposed bulb.

I thought these would fail my inspection when we bought the place in 2010, but they didn't because they were all installed prior to whichever version of the NEC said bare bulbs had to have some type of protective cover around them.

The one exception has a "globe" around the bulb, and is in a closet where the previous owners removed the closet door, and turned the closet into a cupboard for their dishes. I guess they wanted the light to have a bit more of a fancy look to it than just an exposed bulb.

Jim

 

[checkthisout]

No NEC says you can't put outlets in closets. Consider how many people have home media/cable management centers installed in closets in their new houses.

Funny thing about codes though...offhand, you would think that code wouldn't allow you to have an outlet within X distance of a sink or bath tub.

Instead code tells that not only that HAVE to have an outlet by a bathroom sink but that it can also be no further than 18 inches away. It makes no mention of a bathtub or anything else.

 

[MikeF2316]

No NEC says you can't put outlets in closets. Consider how many people have home media/cable management centers installed in closets in their new houses.

Funny thing about codes though...offhand, you would think that code wouldn't allow you to have an outlet within X distance of a sink or bath tub.

Instead code tells that not only that HAVE to have an outlet by a bathroom sink but that it can also be no further than 18 inches away. It makes no mention of a bathtub or anything else.

I would imagine they want it to be close so you're not stretching out trying to reach it. Nobody's going to fall reaching 18 inches. Some bathrooms are so small there would be no place to put an outlet.