Adding Outlets to Garage Ceiling

[Ferrino]

I would like to add around six to eight 4' T8 fluorescent light fixtures to my double garage for improved lighting. However, the garage is currently serviced by a single 15A circuit, which also serves all the outlets in the garage and lights in the kitchen, adjacent bathroom and dining room. I am therefore planning to add a dedicated 20A garage lighting circuit for the new lights (allowing for expansion). The ceiling where I plan to attach the lights (they are the sort that hang on a short chain and have a 3-pronged plug to go into a receptacle) is finished with drywall. I want to use outlets rather than direct-wiring the lights so that I can have some flexibility in the placement of the lights in future.

I had a few questions:

1. When I run new Romex cable between the joists, does the Romex have to be stapled to the joists at certain intervals? Or can I just make one hole in the drywall near the vertical wall (where the power feed comes from) and another where I want to put the outlet, and fish the Romex all the way through (so it essentially lies on the back of the drywall).

2. For the outlets, can I just use the "old work" style boxes which fasten to the drywall only, or should I just the style that nails to a joist?

3. Are there any code restrictions on the placement of new outlets on the ceiling?

4. Do I need to use a GFCI outlet as the first outlet in the circuit?

Many thanks!

 

[rlitman]

If you're using a cheap plastic box (old or new work), the romex must be stapled within 6" of leaving the box. I'd never recommend this for "old work" if the sheet rock is already up.

If you're using a high quality plastic box (they don't have the shiny surface), or a metal box with a proper clamp, you can get away without the staples.

I'd suggest metal old-work boxes with side clamps (not madison clips). They come in a gangable style, so if you need 4 outlets, buy a second gangable box (without the side clips), and swap parts around.

Yes, you need a GFI to protect outlets in a garage. Connect the incoming power to the line side, and outgoing to the load side. Put a GFI Protected sticker on every downstream outlet.

 

[Ferrino]

Thanks. But what about the horizontal length of Romex between the outlet and the vertical wall - without stapling, wouldn't that just hang on the backside of the drywall? Is that to code for retro-fitting new circuits on finished surfaces?

Another option I'm considering is placing the outlets high up on the nearest section of vertical wall, instead of the ceiling. I would then conceal some extension cable in some conduit and run it over to the light.

Thanks again!

 

[Falcon67]

When I do old work like that on a ceiling that's accessible from the back side, I'll staple within 12" of the box and about every 4' or so to keep the wire on a path where it stays out of harms way.

FWIW - when we moved in here, I had to add a few 4' fixtures to the garage ceiling. I used an extension box over the existing light box and ran some conduit on the ceiling. That's not a plan for you since everything is on that 15A. I just didn't want to hassle with cutting old work holes in the ceiling and fishing cable.

 

[Ferrino]

Thanks. Unfortunately the backside of the ceiling is inaccessible as it is a bathroom. Maybe I could just cut access holes in the drywall every 4' to staple the Romex. I'm also assuming that there's insulation in there, given there's a bathroom above.

 

[Falcon67]

I would think about bringing in the new circuit in conduit, or using MC cable and just fastening that to the ceiling. That is how I did the big lights in the new shop - circuit goes into one fixture, then MC cable ties the rest together.

 

[pattenp]

Ferrino, in existing construction where the space the wire needs to be run is not accessible it is okay to fish the wire and not support the wire along the run. You do need to use Old work style boxes that clamp the wire where the wire enters the box. There is no restriction as to the location placement of outlets on the ceiling. If you are in the US, by current code all outlets in a garage need to be GFCI protected. That can be done by placing a GFCI outlet at the beginning of the circuit.

 

[rlitman]

Ferrino, in existing construction where the space the wire needs to be run is not accessible it is okay to fish the wire and not support the wire along the run. You do need to use Old work style boxes that clamp the wire where the wire enters the box.

That's basically what I said. The shiny blue plastic boxes may be sold in an old work form, but are not acceptable for this. Either get the more expensive fiber reinforced plastic ones that get a good grip on the romex, or go with metal, and don't worry about the romex floating in the enclosed cavity.

 

[pattenp]

That's basically what I said. The shiny blue plastic boxes may be sold in an old work form, but are not acceptable for this. Either get the more expensive fiber reinforced plastic ones that get a good grip on the romex, or go with metal, and don't worry about the romex floating in the enclosed cavity.

My bad, I didn't read every line of all the posts. I don't like to repeat what's already been said.

 

[Ferrino]

Thanks! Could you please show me an example of an old-work box with appropriate clamping for the Romex as it enters the box? I am only aware of the cheap style ones from Home Depot.

 

[pattenp]

The metal ones have a positive screw clamp where the plastic is just a friction clamp. The plastic box meets code but it's just not as sturdy as the metal box.

 

[saba007]

The metal ones have a positive screw clamp where the plastic is just a friction clamp. The plastic box meets code but it's just not as sturdy as the metal box.

These work well. I used one last week to install a light fixture above the bathroom mirror. Didn't have much clearance for a regular outlet because the drain pipe from the upstairs bathroom was right there. Just make sure the ears are tucked all the way in when you rubber-mallet it in

 

[MrMark]

That's basically what I said. The shiny blue plastic boxes may be sold in an old work form, but are not acceptable for this. Either get the more expensive fiber reinforced plastic ones that get a good grip on the romex, or go with metal, and don't worry about the romex floating in the enclosed cavity.

The blue plastic old work boxes are made for this and are used all the time. They are code compliant. In new work form, single gang plastic do not have cable clamps whether fiber reinforced or otherwise. All are cheap ****, honestly.

Also, your post on the electrical box stapling requirements was incorrect. On new work the wire must be stapled/secured within 12 inches of the box regardless of whether it is metal or plastic. Wires must be secured to the box with a cable clamp, with may be integral in the case of most plastic. Single gang plastic boxes are an exception to this general rule. They are not required to have a clamp at the box. They are however, required to have cables stapled within 8 inches of the box.

 

[MrMark]

Don't use those metal boxes! They are the worst box on the market. Horrible to work with and tiny. The plastic Carlon the HD sells, while cheesy, are way better than those abominations. The best way to do old work is definitely with a smart type box.

 

[MrMark]

If you're using a cheap plastic box (old or new work), the romex must be stapled within 6" of leaving the box. I'd never recommend this for "old work" if the sheet rock is already up.

Not true at all. You do not staple for old work obviously, and for new work the rule is 12 inches for plastic or metal on stapling with the single exception of new work single gang plastic without integral cable clamps which must be stapled within 8 inches.

If you're using a high quality plastic box (they don't have the shiny surface), or a metal box with a proper clamp, you can get away without the staples.

There is no code distinction between the "high quality" boxes and the shiny ones.

I'd suggest metal old-work boxes with side clamps (not madison clips). They come in a gangable style, so if you need 4 outlets, buy a second gangable box (without the side clips), and swap parts around.

These are junk.

Yes, you need a GFI to protect outlets in a garage. Connect the incoming power to the line side, and outgoing to the load side. Put a GFI Protected sticker on every downstream outlet.

10 characters

 

[James-W]

I have seen metal as well as plastic raceways to run wire inside of, at least I think they are called raceways. Anyway, you attach the raceway to the ceiling, or wherever, and then you run the wires inside of it. You open one side of the raceway, put the wires inside, then close the raceway. I think the raceway comes in different colors, and I imagine they can be painted as well so that they match the wall or ceiling they are mounted on. This may or may not be an option you want to consider.

 

[Ferrino]

Thanks again for all the feedback. This Family Handyman article would also seem to support the idea that it's not a violation of code to leave the Romex unstapled between the wall and the outlet (when doing "old work" on a finished ceiling):

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Projects/Lighting/Interior-Lighting/how-to-install-recessed-lighting-for-dramatic-effect/Step-By-Step

 

[pattenp]

Thanks again for all the feedback. This Family Handyman article would also seem to support the idea that it's not a violation of code to leave the Romex unstapled between the wall and the outlet (when doing "old work" on a finished ceiling):

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Projects/Lighting/Interior-Lighting/how-to-install-recessed-lighting-for-dramatic-effect/Step-By-Step

So you didn't believe those of us that said it's okay? Here's the code section.. 2011 NEC 334.30(B)Unsupported Cables. Nonmetallic sheathed cable shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable: (1)Is fished between access points through concealed spaces in finished buildings or structures and supporting is impracticable.

 

[MrMark]

That's a really good article. Does anyone know what the KO in the back of the 2 gang plastic remodel box is for?

 

[rlitman]

For ENT smurf tube connectors.

 

[MrMark]

For ENT smurf tube connectors.

Thanks. I was thinking that was a possibility.

Are those rated for high voltage or just cable and phone lines?

 

[rlitman]

The blue is rated for line voltage. You can put THHN and the like in there.
The orange is only suitable for cable, phone and whatnot. It has thinner walls, and bends more easily.

 

[Ferrino]

I have another question related to this new lighting circuit. Due to the path of the new circuit, I will be unable to place a switch for the lights by the entry door (from kitchen). Is there some sort of radio-controlled switch I can place at the door which will actuate a light switch elsewhere? And will said switch have enough capacity to switch a 20A circuit or will it only control individual lights?