Adding power to a shed

[alfredeneuman]

I been doing this a long time, cant recall ever having this type of thing not work.

Plenty of things work. Remember that guy from Virginia that had a single wire run to his 1941 barn with an earth return? That worked fine too.
Doesn't mean it was right. It was Mickey Mousing at it's finest

3 long consecutive posts (with examples from your personal experiences and comparisons to unrelated things) in 11 minutes to support your stance.....?

 

[sberry]

There is an obvious difference in the 1941 scenario but think that part would be obvious. But I can type slower if you are having trouble?

 

[sberry]

To the OP, this is a good place to buy a full roll of wire, going to have 100 ft left for something else, going to be left with a common wire that is easily used.

 

[sberry]

I have a friend who is wanting me to help him run permenant power to his shed, sized 10X15, he's tired of running extension cords out there all the time.
He only needs one 20 Amp circuit to operate one 4 Ft LED strip light, a small 3 blade ceiling fan and a couple of outlets for a radio and small items while he's out there polishing his bike.

My research has lead me to to the conclusion that I will need 6 gauge THWN wire with a 12 gauge ground buried in 3/4 inch Sch 40 PVC buried to 18 inches top of conduit.

This is what I mean about research.

 

[alfredeneuman]

My research has lead me to to the conclusion that I will need 6 gauge THWN wire

Further "research">>
He entered the full 20A load into the VD calculator and the #6 was below 3%.
#8 was above 3%. The #12 ground was just wrong because he didn't know about the increase due to the larger active conductors.

It's all understandable though. That's why he came here

 

[sberry]

I agree it was wrong, maybe on a couple counts. No law says its got to be 3%, no law says its got to be 20A but a common cable would have been compliant and served the anticipated load.
The only risk is if it has the poop to pop a breaker but gfci pretty much takes care of that and if he decided to open a machine shop to replace the shed he might have to dig the ditch again

 

[sberry]

Just for giggles, I forget the exact math but my 150 Maxstar will out 90A on 100 ft of 12. At about 150 ft its about 85 and at 200 ft it is limited about 70A before it tripps a breaker. I tried it a couple times and if I get a chance will fuss with the cord length a little. I have cut 100's of boards, millions cut every day on 100 ft of 16 cord, same for yard tools. Lots of pole barns built from 150 ft of cord.
We were drilling and sawing a while back, a guy wanted a 12 for combination loads and I sent him with 2 100x16 We didn't even need to put them on the same circuit.
Now that I think of it I have 120V in service with 200 ft of cord, splits and goes to 15A rv with coffee pot, micro and a little fridge and then 100 ft 16 to the sales shack. Register and cordless phone. When I started had 250 ft of 10 multi wire, was a pain, now I use a common 20A 120, I was really using the real load down one pole anyway and its not as great as we thought. I never brew and micro, for giggles I might check the voltage just for our entertainment.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Just more talk about you and your personal experiences will do nothing to help the OP.

 

[alfredeneuman]

No law says its got to be 3%,

No law, but there is an informational note in the Code.

210.19(A)
Informational Note No. 4: Conductors for branch circuits as defined in Article 100, sized to prevent a voltage drop exceeding 3 percent at the farthest outlet of power, heating, and lighting loads, or combinations of such loads, and where the maximum total voltage drop on both feeders and branch circuits to the farthest outlet does not exceed 5 percent, provide reasonable
efficiency of operation.

 

[sberry]

Just more talk about you and your personal experiences will do nothing to help the OP.

It actually should, the guy is playing a radio in a garden shed. I understand its a hobby going from forum to forum policing voltage drop but the guy will never notice, neither will the things he is running. My personal experience validates that.
The experience has also changed my opinion when I worried about it endlessly and has proven not to make any difference to this kind of typical application which is most likely replacing a 16 cord which worked without setting the place on fire or burning up the radio.
This thread is living proof anyone can look it up on the chart, I am a believer in that too but can add something I have actually done,,, more than once,,, in more than one decade.

 

[sberry]

I would be right with this if there was an air conditioner involved or some other substantial load. The point of the experience is that it never made any difference. It probably has somewhere but a good share of the worlds work is done on 16 wire. Modern homes have a lot of long 12 circuits and it doesn't stop anyone from running the vacuum.
The real lack of service is in spec built homes with garages, where people want to party on occasion or use a small air comp,,, wired behind drywall, its not to garden sheds. That is my personal experience.
This we even see here,,,, I don't recall a single thread here about problems with the shed service. My neighbor is a master, holds every paper you can get, has a 12 running to his shed, could have any wire he wanted for free, got a light and a recept in it.
Back to the op, if you are going to pipe,,, while inch is roomy and easier to pull larger conductors 3/4 if you use it is so much more practical for a diy type. MC cable and others are not shovel rated.
As for the rest of it, I am not immune from going overkill, I am one of the originals. I started my career overboard. I have got way more practical along the way and now use the words adequate and sufficient vs the best and every what if.
This forum is living proof,,, hundreds of threads about future proof,,, I or 2 I can even recall where it was a problem and the problem was still speculative,,, such as I havnt had an issue but I wish,,,, but it hasn't been a problem. 1000's of speculative threads about V drop, not 1 I can recall other than someone had a contractor burn up an air comp when using an outlet from a trouble light.

 

[sberry]

Reasonable efficiency of operation. A key word here is reasonable.
What we might do is slightly different than whats practical for a diy, we can, extra complication is irrelevant, we can do it at the right cost. But I can say for a fact that when I done this the extra was simply parked. Its ok to use extra, its not a bad thing but to insist he is going to have some kind of meltdown and needs a wire a couple sizes larger isn't really correct.

 

[alfredeneuman]

What percentage of your many jobs would you say involve permits and inspections?

 

[sberry]

Some. Normally on service. I did a new home for a bud a while back, he had already pulled the permit, service, ruff, final. He had the guy move 1 recept a stud bay in the upstairs we put where were were not sure of a wall yet. Michigan has a fairly rigid process. Over my career had a couple get re done, well over 30 years ago, I probably do a couple a year, havnt missed one in decades.
Inspectors assume I am an electrician, I had a chance to meet him and his fill in a while back, guy put the sticker on and said, its obvious you done this before. But I am not likely to call him over a garden shed.

 

[sberry]

I am familiar enough with inspectors that my Bud, said,,,, he said just what you said he would say. I asked him if he had any comments or dings, he said,,, no, he simply said they all should be done like this. Commented on the duct seal on the entrance.
I cant have them go wtf or have call backs.