Advice needed desperately regarding garagedominium design

[LisaJ]

Hi everyone.

I just joined the group in hopes that some of y’all will be able to give me some input, as I am completely overwhelmed. Please, pleeeeease be nice to me. I know I’ve done everything backwards, but I’m here now, so I’m trying to figure out how to proceed now (without crying! ).

The abbreviated background story: We live in a busy beach/resort town, but I have been longing to have a big garden/farm, which I have no room for in the city, so when the most perfect piece of property popped up for sale about 30 minutes inland, we scooped it up. That was in early 2022. It’s taken us this long with several false starts to get this simple metal barn built for a various number of challenges. But alas, it’s FINALLY here! Thanks be to God.

(Note: We will be using this “barn” to store my UTV, along with the gardening/pond paraphernalia in the back, but the front section and (future) loft will be a recreation space, including a small kitchen and bathroom).

Sigh. Ok, so that all sounds great, but here’s the issue. Now that the “shell” is there, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what to do with the walls. I wasn’t prepared for there to be such thick beams on the sides, and even with all of the research I have done, I still have no clue what the best way is to cover those deep beams.

I actually like the look of exposed beams (as long as they can be painted white, which is a whole other question), but with these beams being so deep on the sides, I wouldn’t be able to use those walls for a kitchen area or to hang a television, etc, unless I completely covered them, right?

And if there was some way to leave them exposed, then I have the issue of the spray foam showing that I have already paid for. Y’all…. It’s ugly. I didn’t know it was so ugly! I can’t leave that spray stuff showing, which means that I am down to two choices.

I either have to cover the huge beams with Sheetrock, which I hate, not to mention that this barn has 20 foot walls, so that could cost me my first born child! I mean, that’s a lot of Sheetrock!

The other option, which I do like the look of, is metal sheeting, but as is par for the course where I live, I can’t get anyone to even call or email me back to even give me any information on what’s involved with doing that or how much it might cost. Can I even use spray foam behind metal sheeting? Does it require the whole thing to have wooden framing built to hang it from like Sheetrock does? Or can the metal sheeting hang from the existing metal beams? Can I hang cabinets and a television over metal sheeting? I know nothing, and I can’t find any answers.

Can anyone share any advice? What would you do? Thanks, in advance, for reading this far and for offering any insights!

 

[LisaJ]

P.S. We aren’t even going to talk about the window placement or how someone might even be able to frame around that mess. I had no idea where the beams would be located in relationship to the location of the windows when I showed them where I wanted the windows from the outside drawing, and it was too late by the time they finished cutting the holes to move them then. But I’m trying not to think about that issue yet.

 

[Youngandfree]

So you had this large metal garage built and never once saw the inside of a demo before proceeding?

 

[LisaJ]

I don’t know exactly what “demo” means, but if you’re asking if I ever saw what the inside would look like before it was built, no, I didn’t. I only saw it computer-generated by the company who created the design, and I couldn’t really see the inside very well (and definitely couldn’t tell the size of the beams at all).

 

[LisaJ]

So you had this large metal garage built and never once saw the inside of a demo before proceeding?

That screenshot in the photos I posted is what I received. As you can see, you can’t really tell what it looks like inside.

 

[Fixr]

I don’t know exactly what “demo” means, but if you’re asking if I ever saw what the inside would look like before it was built, no, I didn’t. I only saw it computer-generated by the company who created the design, and I couldn’t really see the inside very well (and definitely couldn’t tell the size of the beams at all).

Lisa, welcome to GJ. Now buckle your seat belt and be prepared to get harsh criticism along with good advice. It appears to me that you dove waaay in without really educating yourself first, (probably you didn't know what you didn't know), so now you get to educate yourself on how to get yourself out of this mess. There are no guarantees that you will find a magic wand, but it's very likely that you will get some good honest advice, along with a fair bit of unhelpful criticism.

I think it will be worthwhile for you to take both the hits and the kindly advice. And it will do no good to try to define what will be talked about. Just roll with it.

 

[Fixr]

And Lisa, tell us where this project is geographically located, and give us an idea of what kind of budget you have remaining.

 

[LisaJ]

*** moved this comment to the correct location.

 

[LisaJ]

Lisa, welcome to GJ. Now buckle your seat belt and be prepared to get harsh criticism along with good advice. It appears to me that you dove waaay in without really educating yourself first, (probably you didn't know what you didn't know), so now you get to educate yourself on how to get yourself out of this mess. There are no guarantees that you will find a magic wand, but it's very likely that you will get some good honest advice, along with a fair bit of unhelpful criticism.

I think it will be worthwhile for you to take both the hits and the kindly advice. And it will do no good to try to define what will be talked about. Just roll with it.

Just for the record, after I bought this property, it took me 5 months just to get someone to do a survey, another 6 months to find a contractor to show up, 5 more months to get said contractor to get the permit for the carriage house garage I had originally planned to build, only to be told after all of that that he wanted another $40k for the building, soooooo…. I cut my losses and started all over from scratch after having already paid for engineered plans for that building, along with septic connection to the tune of $10k…. Which is how I ended up here with this metal building.

So, having said all of that, the fact that I have any building at all on this property is nothing short of a miracle at this point, and one way or the other - criticism or not - I’m going to find a way to make it work. It’s what I have, which is better than nothing, and I’m going to take it as a win, even if it’s a pain-in-the-***. If someone wants to be kind enough to give me some advice, I would appreciate it. If not, it can’t be any worse than what I’ve already dealt with thus far with regard to this property.

 

[Fixr]

Just for the record, after I bought this property, it took me 5 months just to get someone to do a survey, another 6 months to find a contractor to show up, 5 more months to get said contractor to get the permit for the carriage house garage I had originally planned to build, only to be told after all of that that he wanted another $40k for the building, soooooo…. I cut my losses and started all over from scratch after having already paid for engineered plans for that building, along with septic connection to the tune of $10k…. Which is how I ended up here with this metal building.

So, having said all of that, the fact that I have any building at all on this property is nothing short of a miracle at this point, and one way or the other - criticism or not - I’m going to find a way to make it work. It’s what I have, which is better than nothing, and I’m going to take it as a win, even if it’s a pain-in-the-***. If someone wants to be kind enough to give me some advice, I would appreciate it. If not, it can’t be any worse than what I’ve already dealt with thus far with regard to this property.

Sadly, that actually sounds kind of typical these days. Plenty of folks on this forum have had similar experience. Quite a few will try to help, and some... well, you know.

p.s. Because of that stuff, I'm going to stick with what I've got and not try to start any new major projects.

 

[LisaJ]

And Lisa, tell us where this project is geographically located, and give us an idea of what kind of budget you have remaining.

I live in Myrtle Beach, SC. This farm property is in Loris, SC, about 30 minutes inland. I don’t know what my budget is. I left that by the wayside a long time ago, but I need to go find it and get back on track. We were just focused on getting a building finished, and when we run out of money, we will stop. We need the electric, plumbing, bathroom, and walls to be done next. We may have to pause after that once we see where we are with cost.

 

[LisaJ]

Sadly, that actually sounds kind of typical these days. Plenty of folks on this forum have had similar experience. Quite a few will try to help, and some... well, you know.

p.s. Because of that stuff, I'm going to stick with what I've got and not try to start any new major projects.

I completely agree. If I ever get this project finished, I swear I’m not starting anything else for a long, long time. I’m worn out.

 

[Copymutt]

It looks like the good looking building is on a concrete slab. Plumbing is typically done prior to pouring the slab. Hopefully that was addressed and water lines and drains are stubbed in.
Do you already have a septic system in place? Does it ever freeze there?

 

[drmarkr]

So the septic is in? Is there electric to the site? Water to the site? How far from the building for both of those? Are you still working with a contractor?

 

[drmarkr]

It looks like the good looking building is on a concrete slab. Plumbing is typically done prior to pouring the slab. Hopefully that was addressed and water lines and drains are stubbed in.
Do you already have a septic system in place? Does it ever freeze there?

Enlarging the pics I see no stubs for either....

 

[LisaJ]

So the septic is in? Is there electric to the site? Water to the site? How far from the building for both of those? Are you still working with a contractor?

The septic is not in, but we had to pay for the septic before the county would give the contractor the permit to build the ORIGINAL carriage house (which was not a metal building)

 

[LisaJ]

Sorry. I accidentally hit the post button before I was finished typing. So yes, the sewer (not septic, sorry) has been paid for, but no, it was not put it. (Nobody can explain why it was done that way by zoning, but that’s how they did it). There is water to the property, but the pipes have not been brought to the barn yet. It’s there and we are paying for it to be there already, even though it’s obviously not hooked up. Same for electric. It’s to the property. We are currently waiting for them to come back and bury the line from the road to the barn. It should be any day now. We have been waiting for several weeks. The temporary pole is already there.

 

[Copymutt]

Please clarify. Sewer permit was obtained or you paid for sewer lines not yet installed. No plumbing in the building?

 

[LisaJ]

The septic is not in, but we had to pay for the septic before the county would give the contractor the permit to build the ORIGINAL carriage house (which was not a metal building)

Oh, and no, we are not working with the contractor anymore. That bridge was burned. lol.

 

[LisaJ]

I’m sensing a need for general contractor skills. Did you pay for a septic or just a permit?

We had a contractor. We paid for sewer, not septic, already. We had to pay for it before the county would release our building permit (for some unknown reason), which was just before the contractor decided to increase the price of the previous building by another $40k, so we bailed on the whole thing.

 

[MileHighRover]

Lisa, I'm only here to tell you I really like the look of the building.

I'm wishing you the best of luck. Hang in there. You'll eventually cross the finish line.

 

[LisaJ]

It looks like the good looking building is on a concrete slab. Plumbing is typically done prior to pouring the slab. Hopefully that was addressed and water lines and drains are stubbed in.
Do you already have a septic system in place? Does it ever freeze there?

We have already paid for the grinder pump for it to be connected to public sewer, but the plumbing itself has not been done yet. Meeting with the plumber next week. We are going to have to do it the hard way. I know now that we should have done the plumbing before, but we were given bad advice and were told it didn’t matter which we did first, so here we are. lol. Sigh. It doesn’t freeze very often here.

 

[LisaJ]

Lisa, I'm only here to tell you I really like the look of the building.

I'm wishing you the best of luck. Hang in there. You'll eventually cross the finish line.

Bless you. Thank you for that kind word of encouragement. You have no idea how much I need it.

 

[cvairwerks]

A reasonable place to look for dealing with the interor finishout is the timber framing world. Lots of creative ways there to deal with the large beams and open structure they use.

 

[LisaJ]

Please clarify. Sewer permit was obtained or you paid for sewer lines not yet installed. No plumbing in the building?

We paid $8k for a grinder pump and connection to sewer, which has not yet been completed. That amount was paid when we were working with the contractor on the carriage house that we had previously planned to build before the contractor raised the price. That same pump and sewer connection will be applied to this metal building, which does not yet have plumbing. But it will. We are meeting with the plumber next week, and the sewer engineer is going to meet with him and the electricians together once we have it all sorted out. I spoke to him yesterday.

 

[Copymutt]

I’m respectfully suggesting you ask around and hire a new General Contractor. It wont be a big cost as a major portion of the project is complete. However you cant continue down the road of making mistakes and pre paying for sub contractors that have your money and not your best interest at heart. In fact you will be money ahead.

 

[LisaJ]

A reasonable place to look for dealing with the interor finishout is the timber framing world. Lots of creative ways there to deal with the large beams and open structure they use.

A reasonable place to look for dealing with the interor finishout is the timber framing world. Lots of creative ways there to deal with the large beams and open structure they use.

Thank you. Do you know if metal sheeting also requires wood framing? Or does it attach to the existing metal beams somehow?

 

[LisaJ]

I’m respectfully suggesting you ask around and hire a new General Contractor. It wont be a big cost as a major portion of the project is complete. However you cant continue down the road of making mistakes and pre paying for sub contractors that have your money and not your best interest at heart. In fact you will be money ahead.

Yes, I feel like we are at that point that we need to find a new contractor to finish what we have started. I’m just really gun shy after the last debacle with a contractor, and it’s also not an easy task to even FIND an available contractor around here. I’m hoping to at least know what my options are before I go down that road, in terms of what type of walls and looks are possible. I’ve had very little luck online.

 

[Boogerman]

Good luck! You'll work it out.

 

[Boogerman]

Yes, I feel like we are at that point that we need to find a new contractor to finish what we have started. I’m just really gun shy after the last debacle with a contractor, and it’s also not an easy task to even FIND an available contractor around here. I’m hoping to at least know what my options are before I go down that road, in terms of what type of walls and looks are possible. I’ve had very little luck online.

Getting back on the bicycle is the hardest part!

 

[dcg9381]

A reasonable place to look for dealing with the interor finishout is the timber framing world. Lots of creative ways there to deal with the large beams and open structure they use.

These things are becoming very popular. I've never seen one designed for "residential use" with tube steel, I suppose there are areas where you can get away with it.

As a friend of mine (architect/GC) said: "I can make it look like anything you want on the inside or outside - it's just lipsitck".

Your outside is already done. You did it a little backwards as you've got some things that aren't that easy to change on the inside and you'll have to "design around" them..

This FB group is great for all sorts of ideas and solutions:

 

[LisaJ]

You say that you've already had it spray foamed? Show pictures of what it looks like with that in place, as that will affect what can be done a lot.

I think you have a great building to start from, as long as attention to detail from here on out is done. It's really unfortunate you spray foamed first, that makes it much harder to do many of the trim out and finish things, but it is what it is.

Where I would start is with the windows. Because of the way they're framed in, it will be hard to get any kind of finish and energy efficiency around them. But, at least you're in a warm climate.

I'd box in around the windows out to the inside line of the framing. Figure out what your finish surface will be (Wood, plastic, sheetrock, etc) and get either the final product or at least a substrate to attach it to installed, with allowance for thickness to final finish. The deep window plant shelf or window seat look can be made quite attractive, if you detail the finish around them right.

Once that is in place, you'll have to make a decision on whether to try to leave exposed beams, or cover to the inside surface. I'd be inclined in the living areas to sheetrock over the inside surface of the framing, for flat walls. No virtue to awkward steel pieces sticking out of your walls every 4 feet. Because of the tall walls, some very careful attention to putting fire stops in place throughout the living spaces will be needed for fire safety. I presume you need permits and inspections? I'd highly recommend them; at the level of expertise you have shown, you need them. If I was the code official, that's one of the things I'd give a lot of scrutiny to.

On the shop areas, if you want to cover the spray foam, there's a polyiso cyanoacrylate foam board that has a fiberglass hard surface on it, that can then be finished over. I'd consider gluing spacer blocks to the walls to attach the foam to, and then do a dryvit type synthetic stucco finish on the fiberglass rough surface. You can gouge holes in the spray foam to the tin, to seat the spacer blocks evenly for a flat plane to attach the foam sheets. You could do the same with drywall, but it'd be hard to finish; in that case I'd just put it on the inside edge. The framing steel is only going to be partly exposed, I don't think it will look good nor matter what you do, if you insulate the structure; especially if it already has been spray foamed. The line of least resistance might be to just sheetrock the entire interior to the inside of the "beams".

Finishing out a metal frame building such as this is a challenge. Often, when it is done, it would have been cheaper to frame a building that would be easier and less expensive to finish out. You save up front, pay more in the long term.

Wow! This is a very helpful reply with lots of details that I am going to research to understand better. Thank you so very much for taking the time to give such a through explanation! Very kind of you.

I have already paid for the spray foam (it was paid with the building), but it has not been sprayed yet. I am unsure about when that should be done, so we were waiting to talk to the electrician and plumber before proceeding. (I still don’t know the answer yet, but I am sure open to suggestions. Lol). Do you think we should do the framing that you mentioned first, and then spray it? Should the spray come after the electric and plumbing?

What is your opinion of steel sheeting for walls? Can that go over spray foam, and would it still require the wood framing behind it?

I honestly thought that I was going to end up with something that I could just leave beans exposed and paint it all white (I had photos saved everywhere of that look! Lol), for that rustic sort of “barn chic” look, but my beams don’t look like anything I’ve seen in those photos, so I was kind of in shock when I saw how it looked inside. Eek.

 

[LisaJ]

I'd respectfully suggest that you need a design professional, before you need a general contractor. Decide on a concept of how you want it finished, what the finished spaces will be, where they will be, and how you will approach code compliance issues. It might not take full plans, but at least some concept sketches and a detailed plan of how you get to life safety and building code compliance, while presenting a finished appearance satisfactory to you.

You don't need a licensed architect, although that is one approach. You at the least need a good architectural designer/drafter, that understands the elements of code compliance that will apply, and preferably one that is creative and can work with you to show you how the space can be finished out to be useful, look acceptable to you, and have some reasonable resale value to whomever will own this after you're done with it. At the same time, establishing a budget that you can live with.

If you just start throwing subcontractors at it, you'll end up with an expensive, unfinished mess that will be really hard to make into a completed, coherent structure.

Thanks for the input. I honestly had a very clear vision of what I wanted it to be before the building went up, and the outside turned out great, but I had no idea what the beams were going to look like inside. They were not what I was envisioning at all, nor like anything I had seen before in my inspiration photos. I have a 12 x 12 glass garage door going in the front opening (it’s being made), and I’m going to add black light fixtures out there, so I really do love the outside. But the inside is throwing me for a loop. I know where I want everything positioned and have it all drawn out, but those side beams are just…. Weird. I just don’t know how to incorporate them short of covering them altogether, which adds a huge expense that I hadn’t really been planning on. Soooo…. I guess I’m going to have to prioritize what’s most important and do that first, and then wait on the rest. This is supposed to be a fun little “recreation” space for us, but it’s turned into a huge pain-in-the-****! Lol.

 

[LisaJ]

These things are becoming very popular. I've never seen one designed for "residential use" with tube steel, I suppose there are areas where you can get away with it.

As a friend of mine (architect/GC) said: "I can make it look like anything you want on the inside or outside - it's just lipsitck".

Your outside is already done. You did it a little backwards as you've got some things that aren't that easy to change on the inside and you'll have to "design around" them..

This FB group is great for all sorts of ideas and solutions:

Thanks for the reply. We aren’t really technically using it for “residential use” or to live there, so I wasn’t “as” concerned about the beams…. Until I saw them. Lol. Like you said, the tube steel is not what I have previously seen used for a metal barn, so it wasn’t what I was thinking it was going to look like. Since I never saw a photo of what it would look like inside, I assumed it would be the solid red beams or black beans that I see everywhere. I didn’t even know that these silver beams made of this tube stuff were a thing. Soooo…. I guess I should have asked for more details on the beams, but I was more obsessing about the outside appearance and thinking “a beam is a beam”. Clearly, I was mistaken. So, we shall see how this all shakes out. Thankfully, it’s just a little garden getaway, or I would be losing my mind even more than I am! Lol. Thanks again for your reply! Much appreciated.

 

[LisaJ]

I just wanted to post a little follow-up reply to everyone, as I’ve been up all night obsessing about the side beams. Lol. I ran across this video and screamed a little bit. I think this could work!

Imagine this same wood setup covering those big, ugly sidebeams we have (after they have been sprayed with foam and the electric has been run, of course), which would allow the awkward windows to have a little frame-out around them.

What do y’all think?!

 

[Copymutt]

Great look. Did not watch the video. Gonna be multiples of the expense of drywall.

 

[mrbill55]

P.S. We aren’t even going to talk about the window placement or how someone might even be able to frame around that mess. I had no idea where the beams would be located in relationship to the location of the windows when I showed them where I wanted the windows from the outside drawing, and it was too late by the time they finished cutting the holes to move them then. But I’m trying not to think about that issue yet.

Thinking outside the box, the thicker support beams and windows/doors, etc can be boxed out and framed in to reflect a post and beam, or heavy stone construction design. Yes, the window and door wells will be very deep, but if framed correctly, in a way to be structural as well, will take on a unique, but very ecstatically pleasing look. Plus, the kids and pets might end up using those areas as quiet time or study nooks. Adding plants, baskets, or other display items will soften the look, while again, adding to the appeal afterwards. In addition, the benefits of such deep wall areas is the added insulation you could add, as we did recently in our master bath remodel where we added an additional 2x4 wall (with 2 additional inches in between the existing 2x4 wall for a temperature break, and of course the additional insulation. Again, the trick is the deep frame out, think it through, speak with a local carpenter, then come up with a plan that works for you. If you budget does not allow it to happen now, continue to save money until it can, as anything worth doing, is worth waiting to do the right way, the first time around.

Bill S.

 

[LisaJ]

Thinking outside the box, the thicker support beams and windows/doors, etc can be boxed out and framed in to reflect a post and beam, or heavy stone construction design. Yes, the window and door wells will be very deep, but if framed correctly, in a way to be structural as well, will take on a unique, but very ecstatically pleasing look. Plus, the kids and pets might end up using those areas as quiet time or study nooks. Adding plants, baskets, or other display items will soften the look, while again, adding to the appeal afterwards. In addition, the benefits of such deep wall areas is the added insulation you could add, as we did recently in our master bath remodel where we added an additional 2x4 wall (with 2 additional inches in between the existing 2x4 wall for a temperature break, and of course the additional insulation. Again, the trick is the deep frame out, think it through, speak with a local carpenter, then come up with a plan that works for you. If you budget does not allow it to happen now, continue to save money until it can, as anything worth doing, is worth waiting to do the right way, the first time around.

Bill S.

Well that’s an innovative idea! Thanks so much for the input! I really like it!

 

[LisaJ]

Great look. Did not watch the video. Gonna be multiples of the expense of drywall.

Maybe, or maybe not? Using this wood method would require no framing, whereas Sheetrock would require full framing (from everything I’ve seen).

 

[jack stand]

It looks like you originally built with a 2nd floor in mind, yes/no - living space?
What will be your use
How much plumbing will you have?
What level of interior finishes
You mentioned a similar metal panel, which would be fine.

I like the looks, you will get through this.
One benefit of of the depth of the posts (you've been calling them beams) is that it provides plenty of depth to accommodate plumbing.
Get a "Floorplan"! It's impossible to get "where you want" without a map.
I'd think about calling the permits and inspection department of your county/ town and ask for a meeting on-site. If you're lucky you might get some names of contractors who the inspector likes, and that generally means they do good work or are "low maintenance" from the inspectors pov. Always a good thing.
Without knowing anything more than this thread, I'd try to accelerate having the sewer, pump and chamber installed.
Same for the spray foam. They are 2 "big ticket" items that you've stated are paid for.
The location of your *plumbing is generally the determining factor of what side of the building the ditch and pipe from the main from the street terminate at the building.
*generally plumbing is "stacked" or clustered to simplify the (gravity) waste lines, same for supply lines.
(floor plans needed 1st)
Assuming that the spray foam was paid to the original builder and you 2 are not on the best terms now..... you see where I'm going with this....
This, to a lesser extent requires a plan. With the posts depth, all of your mechanicals (plumbing, wiring and possibly hvac) should easily be concealed in this void that will be created.
At minimum I'd make a friendly call now and then to both of these "debtor's" reminding them that you haven't disappeared.

Post; vertical load bearing
Beam; horizontal " "