Advice needed - sixes and twelves...

[cudacharlie]

Hello all -

Thanks to the great advice from you guys, I am over the idea of getting some big ol' CM set to get me started... I've already made a list of what I think I'll need, and trying to find the best or most sensible choice for each... (FYI: I am assembling tools to wrench heavily on my 1970 Mopars and lightly on my 2006 Magnum...)

Today's question: Six and Twelve point sockets.

Will 12-point sockets be more prone than 6-points to damaging rusty or already-damaged fasteners, as one would assume, making a set like SK 6-points the best choice for working on rusty mopars?

Secondly, how much duplication of 6's and 12's should I anticipate? One thought I had was to use impact sockets as my 6's, and let the chromes be 12's. (I'm thinking SK by the way ) When working on rusty or old fasteners, I might need them to be impact sockets anyway...

Advice? Thanks for helping a newbie!

 

[Bill K]

Most if not all of my sockets ar 6 point. You are correct they are the best choice for tough and rusty fasteners. Sometime you can use a smaller metric size on a s.a.e. nut that is damaged by hammering in on the fastener.I have a couple of cheap socket sets that I use just for jobs like that.
I have both 6 and 12 point wrenches. I find that more usefull. I would stick to mainly 6 point sockets. My 2 cents
Bill

 

[kartracer55]

Just keep in mind that impacts dont fit into some spaces, so even if you just go withc raftsman your going to want a basic set of chrome sockets. Also, a larger not or bolt will be harder to strip with a 12 pt than would a smaller one, which is why many larger sockets are 12 point. My personal preference is 6 point sockets. On newer cars youll find 12 point bolts all over the place, so you do need thm. I own all 6 pt sockets, the only 12s I own are duplicate craftsmans in metric and SAE that came in a tool kit I got on sale.

Jim

 

[filthy_shovel]

I don't even know why they sell 12 point sockets still. Those sockets are only good for one thing... stripping nuts and bolts. Especially rusted ones. Get yourself 6 pint socket. They have a better cut to them.

 

[wythors]

I don't even know why they sell 12 point sockets still.

There are actually some twelve point fasteners. The fuel pump bolts on some older Fords for example.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I have both six and twelve point sockets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drives. I know for alot of guys the 6pt, 12pt thing is a big deal, generally for me it really is not that big a deal. For most applications a 12pt will work just as well as a 6pt, at least that has been my experience. With that said, if you are starting out and can only afford one type or the other, my vote goes to the 6pt as they will no doubt perform much better on rusted fasteners. If or when you do buy 12 pt sockets do not buy cheap ones, this is still the core of your tool set regardless of 6/12 pt, you will regret it. My last point is this, many timed a 12pt socket will fit a fastener a 6pt will not once the fastener has gotten old,rusty and especially DISTORTED, so yes there is a proper place where sometimes only a 12pt socket will work. PS. sometimes it works the other way around too, a 6pt will work on the distorted fastener and a 12pt will not.

 

[eschoendorff]

I have both six and twelve point sockets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drives. I know for alot of guys the 6pt, 12pt thing is a big deal, generally for me it really is not that big a deal. For most applications a 12pt will work just as well as a 6pt, at least that has been my experience. With that said, if you are starting out and can only afford one type or the other, my vote goes to the 6pt as they will no doubt perform much better on rusted fasteners. If or when you do buy 12 pt sockets do not buy cheap ones, this is still the core of your tool set regardless of 6/12 pt, you will regret it. My last point is this, many timed a 12pt socket will fit a fastener a 6pt will not once the fastener has gotten old,rusty and especially DISTORTED, so yes there is a proper place where sometimes only a 12pt socket will work. PS. sometimes it works the other way around too, a 6pt will work on the distorted fastener and a 12pt will not.

I will echo this. I have a lot of duplicates in 6 and 12 pt. I will say that I have never (in recent memory) rounded at fastener with a 12 pt socket. Just make sure that you use the right size for the fastener (duh!) and use a decent quality tool. Even the cheap Taiwanese sockets have a sort of "flank-drive"cut to them nowadays, so finding good sockets should not be an issue. All of my impacts are 6 pt, so if I really need a 6 pt ina larger size, I go straight to my impacts. I do have 6 and 12 pts both in all sizes, though, in 1/4" drive. Like Jim said, those smaller fasteners are the ones that generally like to round off.

Also, working on old Mopars, you are probably dealing with good old American fasteners. I see a lot of junk imported screws and bolts nowadays that will want to strip no matter what you're using. Trust your feel and your common sense with these. If all else fails, you can try using a locking wrench like this:

Vise-Grip 7LW

 

[cudacharlie]

You guys are awesome! Thanks! I really am learning so much valuable info, it's really helpful to benefit from your experience.... And I love to hear a variety of long-winded opinions, so bring it on!

 

[kartracer55]

Well Heres more!!!

12 point fasteners are becoming more and more common... the head is much smaller than its 6pt counter part. If you check out the ARP website a good portion of thier stuff is 12 point.

Id say go with 6pt for the majority of your stuff and get some 12pt shallow 3/8 drive sockets for those times when you need them. Id say just go for craftsman on those.

Jim

 

[Fast Orange]

My personal standard is 12 pt. for shallows,6 pt. for deeps, all impact and swivel sockets are 6 pt. As for wrenches,my standard length are 12 pt. and long pattern are 6 pt. I'm set up this way for both metric and SAE,and this holds true for 1/4,3/8 and 1/2 inch drives.

George

 

[l_bilyk]

I literally only own about 10 12-ponts, and 6 of those are flex sockets. The only time i've EVER seen a 12 point bolt is on ARP bolts.
To contrast that, I probably have about 250-300 6 point sockets.

Maybe one day I'll buy a set of 12 points, but then i'll have to buy a matching set in deep, then some more sets in metric, then hansen trays to fit those, then a bigger tool box, etc etc. You know how it starts.

 

[cudacharlie]

I like how you think George/Fast Orange.... nice system...

 

[Uncle Buck]

l bilyk: Get crackin man, you have a lot of tools to buy and time is short!

 

[Elroy]

To contrast that, I probably have about 250-300 6 point sockets.

Really?

That's a lot of sockets. And how many duplicates are we talking about here? And all 6 points?

OK, if you say so.

 

[Fast Orange]

Another little tip-
Skip getting chrome swivel sockets.Get a set of HIGH QUALITY universals instead-I'm talking Snap-On,MAC or Matco-stay away from any universal that uses roll pins.Get a set of 3/8 drive impact swivel sockets-6 pt of course,at least from 7/16 to 3/4 ,same equivalent in metric.Impact swivels are stronger,smoother and don't bind at severe angles like chrome swivels will.

George

 

[l_bilyk]

Really?

That's a lot of sockets. And how many duplicates are we talking about here? And all 6 points?

OK, if you say so.

Probably 70 duplicates? I dont know exactly. I have 6 hansen trays filled up with chromies, about 60 impact sockets, a set of swivel sockets, and a tool kit in the car. And I just ordered some impact universals. Dont want to inventory the stuff because I dont want to know how much I have spent

 

[z28toz06]

I am in the process of replenishing my tools after my son has been in them for a while now. I am thinking about only buying 6 point impact sockets for all the metric stuff I have to replace. One thing I noticed is the impacts are much thicker in wall diameter and I am sure there are some tight areas that they won't fit in. So I'll probably end up getting 12 point regular sockets also.

 

[chevy302dz]

As a rule you will use 6pt thinwall shallow sockets more than anything else. Of course having everything is important sooner or later.

 

[MarkH]

Unfortunately just as the requirement has become both SAE and Metric, deeps and shallows, the 6 and 12's both serve a purpose and both are needed. There have been a number of places a 6 did not fit, in fact it took a thin twelve to get to. Then it was just tight enough it needed a breaker bar which had its swing limited, a 12 pt worked a 6 did not.

You end up with YOUR favorites which may be different than OTHERS favorites, but you still need that selection to limit the cussin in the day to day situations you run into.

 

[Jared]

i would probobly get a 6pt set the get 12pt sockets when i need the them, the only 12 pt bolts i have encountered are smaller the 5/8.

 

[Uncle Buck]

The only problem I see with having only impact flex sockets (as suggested by Fast Orange)and not chrome flex sockets is the greater size of impact flex sockets as opposed to the chromies. I would always see a place for both types, so I am inclined to buy the chromes first, then follow later with the impact flex type, but that's just me.

I think some of the guys posting on this subject seem to think that twelve point sockets are only for twelve point bolts, at least that is what I am inclined to believe based on what I am reading. I think twelve point sockets have been around for decades for hex shaped bolts, not twelve pt. Am I wrong or are the twelve point fasteners being referred to a more recent phenomenon, ie. the last say 20-30 yrs?

 

[Fast Orange]

The reason I'm recommending impact swivels over chromes is that in my experence,socket wall thickness is rarely a factor when using a swivel.The only times I've had trouble with impact swivels has been on exhaust manifolds/headers in tight engine bays.
As for12pt sockets,they offer no real advantage on hex bolts from an accessability standpoint and they do have a tendancy to strip rusty/damaged fasteners. There are vehicles out that use 12 pt hardware,so they are needed.
About the time you think you've got all the bases covered,you find another type of tool you need. I opened the hood on a new Dodge Sprinter with a 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel today-every engine fastener was external torx ! I'm hoping I won't have to get involved with this truck too much,but you know sooner or later it will need some type of repair. I sense more tools to be bought. Hopefully not soon. There has to be a conspiracy between car makers and tool manufacturers.

George

 

[eschoendorff]

I opened the hood on a new Dodge Sprinter with a 5 cylinder Mercedes diesel today-every engine fastener was external torx !

George

I have an el-cheapo set of e-torx. I bought them as a "just-in-case," so that I wouldn't be caught without them. Then again, I couldn't justify spending $$$$$$ on something that I might use in my lifetime. But, like you said, just when you think you have all the bases covered...

 

[l_bilyk]

Those foreign cars use alot of XZN bits too