advice needed: standards for garage sizing / addition costs

[ClearWaterMS]

About 1.5 weeks ago, my wife and I had made an offer on a new home. The home was listed as having a "huge 4 car garage" During our initial tour we observed that the garage was very cluttered and configured as a workshop with built-in closets, cabinets, and shelving all over making it difficult to eyeball the size.

We came to find out that the garage is only 24' wide and 32' deep (exterior dimensions) and feel that this is not a 4 car garage but in fact a 2 car extra deep. When we pointed this out to the seller and asked for a concession on the price given the inaccurate listing (note: we offered list with no home sale contingency, no request for closing costs, and a delayed closing to accommodate their schedule) they refused claiming it is in fact a 4 car garage.

We are evaluating our options, so the question that I have for the forum is.

What would it cost (roughly speaking) to have a professional extend the roof (the roof line runs front to back so we should be able to simply extend the existing roof line) including pouring a concrete pad, exterior walls, relocate the existing man door and roof. No insulation, electrical, etc. Just the framing, exterior, and masonry work.

Finally, does anybody have any official websites that define what a garage stall is or what a garage minimum needs to be that would lend official credence to my request?

 

[altersaddle]

That question is impossible to answer without knowing where you live. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

There's no end-all "official designation" of what construes an n-car structure, same as there's no real definition on how much room a person needs in a bedroom.

Costs to alter the dimensions of a house can wildly vary. It could be anywhere from $2000 to $2 million, and anything in between.

Around here, the house is defined by the footprint of the building on the property (I think) plus also the area inside the house. If you are going to change the footprint or add more area to the house, then there are rules about how close you can be to the next house, rules about how much of the land you may use for the primary dwelling, how far back from the edges of the lot your house is, etc, etc, etc.

Most of these rules are logically designed to limit fire damage but some are simply to avoid ugly houses.

I would drop the argument on what is and isn't a 4-car garage. You can always change the house later (with enough money...) but you can't really change where it is. If you like the location, buy the house.

 

[Scott H in Wheaton]

I could stuff four 1966 Mustangs in there, but there would be little or no room left to work or walk around.
They are 6 ft wide and 15.5 feet long.
Maybe could fit two deep times two rows, or fit one across the back and three side-by-side across the front.
Again, for storage only, certainly would have to roll them into place with go-jacks or a shop jack.

 

[jimindm]

I doubt you will find a calculation of garage sizing any where. I think it really is what a person wants or needs.

I guess I would not consider a 24x32 a four car, but if you had small cars, and had it built as such, it could be.

Around here houses are selling so fast, that if you like it and it would work for you, I would some how try to get it bought.

I am not even sure I would ever consider any garage that is extra deep, that the deepness would be for a car. I would consider how many garage doors and widths to be the car size of a garage. A 16 FT door is two, an 8-9 FT dor would be one, and any combination of.

If any house decision has to do with the garage, good luck on finding one that is built the way you want it. Every one has their own ideas on use, when building one. Many times they do not think about ever using it as a selling point, but rather a functionality of their use while owning it.

 

[ptgarcia]

I doubt there's a code defining garage size, but a typical 2-car garage around here is minimum 20'x20'. Because land costs are so high around here, developers have been building tandem garages (park one car in front of the other) instead of standard 3-car (wide) garage because they can be fit on smaller lots. The typical tandem garage will add 16' to the depth of a 2-car garage. So, based on my experience, you have neither, but instead just an extra deep 2-car.

Regarding you're attempt to seek concessions for the inaccurate listing, I doubt you'll have much luck with that. You did have the opportunity to inspect the garage and see for yourself what was being sold and make mention of any inaccuracies in your written offer. After that, not much you can do save for dropping out completely.

 

[LB-1911]

About 1.5 weeks ago, my wife and I had made an offer on a new home. The home was listed as having a "huge 4 car garage" During our initial tour we observed that the garage was very cluttered and configured as a workshop with built-in closets, cabinets, and shelving all over making it difficult to eyeball the size.

We came to find out that the garage is only 24' wide and 32' deep (exterior dimensions) and feel that this is not a 4 car garage but in fact a 2 car extra deep. When we pointed this out to the seller and asked for a concession on the price given the inaccurate listing (note: we offered list with no home sale contingency, no request for closing costs, and a delayed closing to accommodate their schedule) they refused claiming it is in fact a 4 car garage.

We are evaluating our options, so the question that I have for the forum is.

What would it cost (roughly speaking) to have a professional extend the roof (the roof line runs front to back so we should be able to simply extend the existing roof line) including pouring a concrete pad, exterior walls, relocate the existing man door and roof. No insulation, electrical, etc. Just the framing, exterior, and masonry work.

Finally, does anybody have any official websites that define what a garage stall is or what a garage minimum needs to be that would lend official credence to my request?

Not "Official" a few realistic measurements w/explanations of sizes.

The minimum size for 4 car garage plans would be about 40' wide by 20' deep. This is barely big enough to fit four cars inside if you don't plan on using the space for anything besides parking. This size can be quite useful though if you will only be parking two or three vehicles in it and need the extra bay(s) for storage or a workshop.

Additional information @
http://www.garageplansetc.com/4-car-garage-plans.html

 

[ard]

You've given them an offer, correct?

Then they accepted??

Now you are asking for an adjustment due to the discovery it is not a 4 car? (Presumably you had a clause that allows you to back out based on an inspection, and this discovery the space is not '4 car' is a result of some 'inspection process'?)

Is the issue 'they saw the size before the offer' versus 'the size was hidden and only apparent later'?

In the end you will be able to find any reason to walk.

Now... what it will cost. You are located in NYC, Manhattan- correct? Probably close to that 2 million number.

 

[ssdave]

From a real estate standpoint, what they advertised and what you bought are not related. You did an inspection in person prior to making the offer. You noted the cluttered, workshop configuration. You still made an offer. Trying to get a concession on that after the fact is not going to have any legal standing. You looked at the shop, and accepted their description as evidenced by making a no contingency offer. If you thought that the garage size detracted from the asking price, you should have made an appropriate offer that deducted for the value you felt was missing. Terms like "huge" referring to the garage are subjective. It's like advertising "clean and move-in ready". If your wife looked at it and didn't think it was clean enough for her standards, you couldn't make an offer, and then after the offer is accepted go to the sellers and tell them you have to clean it up to her standards.

The offer process in real estate is designed exactly to take this type of variables out of the equation. If the buyer disagrees with what the seller or real estate listing says about the house, they're free to make an offer that compensates for the perceived deficiency. There isn't a process after the offer is accepted to make an adjustment, unless you put in a contingency to verify something by inspection or measurement. If you had put in a contingency of "subject to verification of seller provided measurements", then you'd have a case. No contingency offers aren't good for people that are subject to buyers remorse!

 

[tjdux]

There are national standards for real estate. I dont know what they are and if garages are in any way covered. I know bedrooms are for sure.

Any realtor worth their salt woukd have most of the common ones memorized, or at least is the case with Realtors ive worked with in the past.

Call a different office in town and ask them questions about it. Maybe pose as someone lookong for info on selling a home.


As far as costs call a few local contractors for estimate and average them out.

For construction you would need to go another 10ft min deeper if not 12 or 14 for a long car.

I could guess at costs but they would be shot in the dark. Knowing the exterior finish would probably help other guys estimate better. You say masonary so guessing brick instead of siding....

You probably need full foundation for garage so factor more than just a floating pad concrete costs so maybe 10k there.

Framing wont be too bad 2-4k pending on how complicated the roof and connecting to exhisting structure.

I have no clue what brick laying/masonary work runs tho.

I would wager they should drop you 10 to 20 k off price but dont go off my opinion alone. Good luck

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[ClearWaterMS]

ard,

You are correct. the listing called out the fact that it was/is a 4 car garage in 3 different locations. When we toured it we inspected the garage but due to permanent structures (storage shelving and the like) we took the sellers at their word. During the inspection it was called out that the garage was only a 2 car, an estimation of the size was listed as 24 wide by 32 deep.

The seller continues to insist that it is in fact a tandem 2 wide by 2 deep but has offered nothing to prove it to be the case.

 

[Scott H in Wheaton]

ard,

You are correct. the listing called out the fact that it was/is a 4 car garage in 3 different locations. When we toured it we inspected the garage but due to permanent structures (storage shelving and the like) we took the sellers at their word. During the inspection it was called out that the garage was only a 2 car, an estimation of the size was listed as 24 wide by 32 deep.

The seller continues to insist that it is in fact a tandem 2 wide by 2 deep but has offered nothing to prove it to be the case.

Depends on the size of the car you are trying to fit in.

 

[ssdave]

Followup on your other question. Without knowing where you are, it's hard to give a cost. I'd guess to do a small addition to a garage almost anywhere, with matching materials and demo of the stuff that needs to be torn out to make it work would run $100 to $200 per square foot added. Another way to look at it is to take the total purchase price of the house/garage you are buying, divide by the square footage of house/garage, and then use about 150% of that as a budget per square foot cost to add on to the garage. If you're adding on to the house, use about 200%. Small additions are expensive.

 

[matt_i]

You are probably into $50k minimum if there's any brickwork.

 

[Firebrick43]

If you use a midsize car as an average car size, they are 16' long. So no it's not a 4 car garage. But as others stated there is no standard.

You stated its a new home. Normally listings, and tax documents have square footage listed of the garage. Did they not? If they did have exact or very close square footage listed I would say that is on you.

If they did not list dimensions or square footage, either accurately or at all then you might have a legal basis to walk away but they are not under obligation to make a concession. Then if you have made a deposit into escrow getting the money back may require liars, I mean lawyers.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I don't know if there's an 'official' standard size, but looking online for the size of a typical one car garage comes up with a range of 12x20 to 14x22. Multiply by four comes up with 24x40 to 28x44. Trying to park two average cars nose to tail in a 32 foot garage will be tough, since that only allows 16 feet for each. A Ford Taurus (as an example of a full size car these days) is nearly 17 feet long.

 

[ard]

ard,

You are correct. the listing called out the fact that it was/is a 4 car garage in 3 different locations. When we toured it we inspected the garage but due to permanent structures (storage shelving and the like) we took the sellers at their word. During the inspection it was called out that the garage was only a 2 car, an estimation of the size was listed as 24 wide by 32 deep.

The seller continues to insist that it is in fact a tandem 2 wide by 2 deep but has offered nothing to prove it to be the case.

I dont understand why you think this matters!

Lets say I get a letter from Congress, or an official 'building department definition of what a 4 car garage must measure'...and you give it to the sellers. Their response can easily be 'fine, we still are not adjusting the price- feel free to sue us'.

You are fighting a losing battle here...big time.

 

[Super Sport]

ard,

You are correct. the listing called out the fact that it was/is a 4 car garage in 3 different locations. When we toured it we inspected the garage but due to permanent structures (storage shelving and the like) we took the sellers at their word. During the inspection it was called out that the garage was only a 2 car, an estimation of the size was listed as 24 wide by 32 deep.

The seller continues to insist that it is in fact a tandem 2 wide by 2 deep but has offered nothing to prove it to be the case.

I would think that if the inspection paperwork states it as being a 2 car, and the listing lists it as a 4 car - you could claim that it "failed" inspection and get out of the agreement. Given that 4 very small cars could fit in it, and could be proved by the seller with the dimensions you provided, I don't believe that it was truly a misrepresentation and merely a case of "buyer beware" and should have been measured if it was an important feature to you. After all, it should be pretty common knowledge that not all vehicles are the same length. What might fit 4 Mazda Miatas may not fit one International MXT.

 

[ptgarcia]

The seller continues to insist that it is in fact a tandem 2 wide by 2 deep but has offered nothing to prove it to be the case.

The seller doesn't have to prove anything to you. It's up to you to evaluate the home inspection and your own personal inspection of the home and then ask pertinent questions and structure your offer/deal around that. If you don't agree with the seller on something, you can ask for "concessions" but the seller isn't obligated to do anything. You're always free to walk.

 

[kbs2244]

"huge 4 car garage" is a RE agent (most likely female) term.
They have no standard.
(Well they do, but not for descriptions.)

 

[03ranger]

Usually the listing agent does all the measurements on a house prior to listing the house. Does the listing provide room sizes and square footage for each room including the garage, entire house and lot?

Many times the buyer goes along with the selling agent as how the listing is done. I would first check the listing itself, and do a complete walk through, using the listing as a guide line. If there are discrepancies, then your agent should be contacting the listing agent for clarification.

Did the listing specify the square footage of the garage, if not, why not? Was it omitted on purpose or accident? This would be a question to have the listing agent answer. If this was omitted on purpose, what else did they fail to report on the listing? Get your agent and broker involved and if necessary the Selling agent and their broker.

 

[Ditch]

4 car?
yeah 4 1960's mini coopers

 

[finn]

I have a property with a 24' wide x 32' deep garage that I've stored three Fox body Mustangs and an old Bronco II in, so, except for possibly the "huge" part of the listing in the same sentence as the size, the listing is technically correct.

There are many small cars for which that garage would fit four cars. Corolla, Mini, Kia, several GM, and more. Two Camrys would even fit, but just barely.

I wouldn't personally let an agent list my property described like that, though.

It's really a large, or possibly oversized garage with a work or storage area.

I also don't understand how someone could view the property closely enough to actually make an offer and not realize that four of my cars won't fit, partitions and clutter not withstanding.

 

[ClearWaterMS]

I apologize for abandoning the thread. As an update and a few points of clarification.

1. this isn't a new home, but new to us.

2. The garage dimensions ended up being 22 wide by 34 deep for a total of 748 sq feet. The seller was able to squeeze an older jeep wrangler and Chevrolet sedan into the garage proving that it can fit four cars. By squeeze, I mean to say that they left less than 1' between the door and bumper, and the cars. My inspector and our banks appraiser both claimed that it was not a 4 car garage but that it was an over sized 2 car garage. So while you can fit four cars you really can't "park" four cars in it as you wouldn't have enough space to actually get out of the garage for the front two cars.

3. The sellers actions and correspondence made them appear to be very unreasonable and difficult and in the end they were unwilling to entertain any discount on the price or offer any compensation. They maintained that we (the buyers) should have known that through all of the tools, built in storage, and general clutter we should have been able to accurately estimate the true size of the misrepresented garage.

4. we decided to purchase the house anyway and are going to get settled and inquire about options to add a 3rd indoor parking spot for our 3rd vehicle at a later date. I will post a new thread after we are in /w pictures of the new space (as it is still a pretty nice garage) and inquire about the most cost effective way to add the space that I was looking for when I started the process.

thank you to all that offered advice.

 

[ptgarcia]

Congratulations on the new home!

 

[Falcon67]

Beat me to it on the Mustangs LOL. You have to evaluate all claims before making an offer, really. We looked at a nice $500K house yesterday with an "Amazing interior!" Ugh, maybe your kind of amazing but not ours. Kitchen was down right ugly. 24x32 garage is very unusual. Anything under $250K around here is 2 car, usually 21x22 or so. Lots of 4 door pickups parked in driveways because they don't fit. Most of the 350K up seem to be getting "3 car" type deals - one 16' door + a single 8, or 3 8' doors. The garage on our house was a selling point - the 4 door F150 fits with about 12" off the nose and 6" between the rear bumper and the door. That's about 22 1/2' deep. it's 22' wide, very unusual.