Advice on Buying Tools

[Matt018]

I am in the process of getting a small engine repair job at a local shop and know the owner is going to ask me about tools soon. I really only have some screw drivers and wire cutters and pliers so I am going to tell him I will start buying as I go but how should I go about buying these. What do you reccomend as a toolbox? I dont want to get a 26 inch roller and fill it up in less than 6 month which i can deffinetly see happening. But im not sure I want to invest 400 into one of those 42 in harbor freight boxes. So what do you all think?

And also I think Im going to by this Williams 3/8 socket set with metric and SAE and shallow and deep with extensions and a ratchet for 160 and then just go from there with a Williams or SK metric then standard combo wrench sets... and So on. so what do you guys think of this? And any suggestions as to what i should and shouldnt buy for small engine tools?

 

[ibedayank]

ask the owner what you should have to work for him...
start with a smaller box can always upgrade.. He may not have the room for a bigger box

 

[WR250F]

I would give this box a hard look if I was buying

It's well made and the price is right

Here's a coupon to save another $70 off the sale price

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hvpcno1/Harbor Freight/16DrawerHF.jpg

Print it and take it with you if you go to a local store, it works.

Link to the details:

http://www.harborfreight.com/26-8-drawer-roller-cabinet-with-8-drawer-top-chest-67831.html

 

[Outlawmws]

I would give this box a hard look if I was buying

It's well made and the price is right

Here's a coupon to save another $70 off the sale price

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/hvpcno1/Harbor Freight/16DrawerHF.jpg

Print it and take it with you if you go to a local store, it works.

Link to the details:

http://www.harborfreight.com/26-8-drawer-roller-cabinet-with-8-drawer-top-chest-67831.html

I'm not sure that a 16 drawer setup is appropriate to a "Small Engine mechanic"; we are talking about lawnmowers and the like...

Assuming Briggs and Co have not drunk the metric Kool-Aid, you should have something like the following in SAE:

#1, 2, and 3 phillips screwdrivers

1/8, 3/16, 1/4 " flat blade scewdrivers

Nut drivers for 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, and 1/2
(For small engine repair, these are way faster to deal with than a ratchet in 90% of the places you will use it)

1/4" drive socket set, extensions and ratchet
3/8 drive Socket set extensions and a long handle ratchet

1, preferably 2 sets of combination wrenches from 3/8 to 3/4

An Allen key set either loose or one of the "pocket knife" sets.

Medium weigh dead blow hammer.

Again, you may need to double up for metric vs. SAE...

that is a minimum set and you can add as needed for those special sizes and tools.

A simple 3 drawer top box should suffice, and leave room for growth. even one from a yard sale will do to start.

 

[ibedayank]

outlaw...your forgetting the HONDA powered and robin subaru powered and all the clones

al depends on what the shop works on

 

[Matt018]

This shop does all kinds of lawnmowers, snowblowers, blowers, trimmers, and others. And I think that I would fill up just a top chest pretty quick so I am thinking about some type of rollaway option.

 

[Outlawmws]

outlaw...your forgetting the HONDA powered and robin subaru powered and all the clones

al depends on what the shop works on

True statement, which is why I said he may need both SAE and metric. (Whenever someone says small engine my mind automagicaly thinks Briggs, maybe Clinton, or Hmmm,,, whatever that third main US company was...)

What can I say, I'm a product of my Era!

I think the list is still a good starting point, but yes, both metric and SAE will be needed, unless its a metric only shop. Most repair shops aren't, even if that is all they sell.

 

[Jallred]

Kohler was what you were thinking for the third one or mabee Tecumseh. As for the tool kit In addition to the above listed tools I would add a ignition tester, a compression guage, and a tach. I use at least one of these on almost everey engine I work on.

 

[WR250F]

The third one you were thinking of might be Tecumseh.

I didn't know it until about a week ago, they closed up and are no longer in business

As far as a (much) smaller box fitting his needs, that is much more realistic in terms of what is actually needed than the big box in the link above.

But, when I look at the $279 price tag I was thinking maybe section off some drawers for little stuff like cable clips, spare bolts, maybe a few plug wire terminals etc...

I am definitely suffering from go big or go home syndrome where boxes are concerned because mine are so stuffed with things other than tools

Thanks for the reality check

 

[Outlawmws]

Tecumseh was the one; although I'd heard of Kohler, I can't recall ever working on one. I was mostly a Briggs guy.

Matt, I think the set you mentioned in post 1 will get you started, but you will need to accessorize a bit. If you go for a roller, my only recommendation is to stay away from the older ones that had a big storage compartment on the bottom (Craftsman was big on these...). However many drawers you go with, get all drawers.

A conventional width roller should do you fine, add a plywood top and bolt on a small vise to that, maybe on the back corner so you don't fill the drawers and/or drawer pulls with debris.

Personally I don't like using my main box for connectors or fasteners, but if that makes life easier, keep them in Plano boxes so you can take them where needed, don't divide up the drawers into bins. (Says the guy with a floor box crammed full of hardware. My defense is it's dedicated to hardware, and is not sharing space with tools...)

 

[Outlawmws]

SNIP
I am definitely suffering from go big or go home syndrome where boxes are concerned because mine are so stuffed with things other than tools

Thanks for the reality check

I can sympathize, I have 23 top, intermediate, floor, and roller boxes, organization is tough. only two are stacked. a Kennedy in three parts and a smaller Kennedy in two. Its gradually getting there...

 

[ibedayank]

wisconsin
kawasaki

 

[ibedayank]

i have more tools then my little stack will hold....thanks to this place buying more each time i can swing it
will probably wind up building a wall mounted cabinet... have more time than $ and have 75% of the needed materials already including the doors

 

[Matt018]

Alright then I suppose I am on track with what I need. I think I am going to try to get a basic set of hand tools first rather than buying special engine rebuilding tools and pullers that i could borrow less frequently than a wrench or something.

And if a 26 in roller sould be fine than are there any you would reccomend on the cheap? I am really unsure of craftsman boxes because some people love em but other people say they are complete junk. And I also would not ever buy one of those griplatch ones for 400 when I could get the wide harbor freight box for cheaper but that said are the ball bearing or quiet slides decent? Or are there any well kept secretts i dont know about?

 

[Matt018]

Oh and I do believe I will need a standard set too, From what I have seen they work on almost everything lawn and snow related including some old mowers i seen in the waiting area for repair.

 

[tbobbo]

I would say start with a cheaper box and higher quality tools. You can always take the cheaper box home if you upgrade. You will want tools at home someday. I went cheap when I first started, and it was frustrating. The cheaper boxes have served me well over the years. The only time I had a nice box was when I was not wrenching for a living. I had to sell it and now I am working and have a cheaper box. (montezuma)

 

[Matt018]

Well Im not too concerned about tools at home... My dad was a Auto Mechanic for about 10 years before he became an engineer and has a pretty good set.

So then what would you reccomend for a cheap box then?

 

[Outlawmws]

Maybe something alone these lines:

Note that both are built by waterloo,,,

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...0=202033591&prodComp_1=202946079&N=5yc1vZbtsw



Or this:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_244960-5609...br|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

A bit bigger, but the price is right:

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-drawer-red-industrial-quality-roller-cabinet-90320.html

You might also take a trip through your Costco, once in a while they have a great deal.

Shop around, roller slides are nicer than friction, heavier gauge drawers are better then lighter gauge. (remember the smaller the Ga. No., the heavier the metal)

 

[tbobbo]

I like the HF 42 inch box for a cheaper one. I would say if your just getting started you will fill the box up quicker than you think. I started with a 26 inch and it only lasted 2 years and was full. If you use your tools for a living also remember that keeping them findable in your box is a easy way to save time. Many guys have so much stuff in a box that they cant find anything. I like to keep my stuff neat so I can grab it quick. It makes a difference.

 

[tbobbo]

I dont have a HF where I live, but on vacation this summer I found one and stopped there to check it out. I wanted to see if the people that rave about these boxes are right. They seem as good as craftsman, but some of the reviews say as good as a snap on........not even close. But way better than the **** I started with. Hard to beat for the price.

 

[plierwire]

You might want to take a look at these tool lists - they are tool lists for a couple of different small engine repair colleges. The attachment is from Alexandria Tech College in MN. Good luck with the new job! Let us know how it goes!

http://www.wccc.me.edu/index.php?op...id=109:mechanical-techology-sidebar&Itemid=89

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

If I were starting out in small engine work, I'd go with a rally box or a cantilever box. Mobility is a big plus in that line of work.

A friend of mine that does small engine work uses a 3 drawer Craftsman rally box, and he keeps everything he could ever need in it. It saves on space in his shop (which is at a premium in most mower/saw shops), and he carries it with him to do occasional "field" jobs on pumps, generators and the like.

I'd honestly recommend getting one of Sears' tool sets to start out with and adding on later.

 

[Squankum]

Go used, save money, you can always upgrade someday. Better to have good tools in a blah box.

I got a 26"'CMan Griplatch top & bottom set, 1 y/o, Craigslist, $275. You can't beat that with a stick for value. Nice ball bearing drawers. Not like their cheap stuff.

 

[Squankum]

Oh, and amen to the CMan portable 3-drawer toolbox. I lived out of one for 20 yrs. It's shocking how much you can get done out of one with some organizing. 4 drawer is even better, but might be hard to lift once you fill it. My 3 drawer was around 80 lbs.

When I got my big roller chest this year, it was hard for me to move into it. So many memories... and mental habit as to where to grab for what!

 

[Squankum]

Here's another example of a hot steamin' deal on Craigslist. I bet the vise is included, too.

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/tls/2613288157.html

Something like that really could do you for a while. You can upgrade later when you're rich and famous.

Now just some more unsolicited advice:

Never before in human history has it been easier for the tightwad to find the thing he wants, used, from some other guy who needs the money and wants to get rid of one. Ebay and Craigslist, and the classifieds here. Amazing things.

Also, looking back from middle age, to my wasted yute:
Paying interest on money you borrowed to buy new toys is ... dumb. Avoid it.

Be cheap now, be rich later! (Or least, not broke and behind the 8-ball at every turn.)

 

[Outlawmws]

SNIP

Now just some more unsolicited advice:

Never before in human history has it been easier for the tightwad to find the thing he wants, used, from some other guy who needs the money and wants to get rid of one. Ebay and Craigslist, and the classifieds here. Amazing things.

Also, looking back from middle age, to my wasted yute:
Paying interest on money you borrowed to buy new toys is ... dumb. Avoid it.

Be cheap now, be rich later! (Or least, not broke and behind the 8-ball at every turn.)

Quoted for the truth!

 

[ScottKing]

I have the following on my homemede 48"x 24" tool cart:
Wrench sets, 5/16 to 1" Snap-on and 7mm to 19mm SK on Vim wrench racks
3/8 sockets on rails, metric and standard, ratchet and wobble extensions Snap-on
3/8 impact sockets 3/8 to 3/4 Snap on
Full 1/4 drive set with extensions
various needle nose, slip joint, water pump, side cutters, vise grip pliers
long torx bits for cordless drills T20,25,27,30
T-handle torx drivers, T20,25,27,30; T-handle hex drivers 3,4,5,6,8mm
assorted screwdrivers
2 cordless drills for taking apart weedeaters quick
small handle screwdrivers for little carburetors
pick set.
3/8 Snap-on impact
1/2 Sears impact
1/2 standard and impact sockets
various 1/2 metric sockets
std gear wrenches, long & short, also 10 & 12mm for import engines
small & lg ball peen & dead blow hammers, lg rubber mallet
big channel locks
oil filter wrenches
Wiss straight shears
1/2 and 7/16 thin wrenches
feeler gauges, TDC indicator, spark plug gauge.
DVM, jumper wires, sm battery load tester, trouble light, LED drop light,
T25,30,40 bit sockets

about once a week I take a look at what i don't use and put it back in the big box, if I use anything more than once or twice a week, it goes on the cart. i do 95% of repairs off the cart.

i suggest getting a cheap box and spend the money on good tools first, once you start making some money the upgrade to a good box.

 

[Skin]

I am in the process of getting a small engine repair job at a local shop and know the owner is going to ask me about tools soon. I really only have some screw drivers and wire cutters and pliers so I am going to tell him I will start buying as I go but how should I go about buying these. What do you reccomend as a toolbox? I dont want to get a 26 inch roller and fill it up in less than 6 month which i can deffinetly see happening. But im not sure I want to invest 400 into one of those 42 in harbor freight boxes. So what do you all think?

And also I think Im going to by this Williams 3/8 socket set with metric and SAE and shallow and deep with extensions and a ratchet for 160 and then just go from there with a Williams or SK metric then standard combo wrench sets... and So on. so what do you guys think of this? And any suggestions as to what i should and shouldnt buy for small engine tools?

I play with small engines on the side so i'll try to give you some basics that i use often [daily or at least a few times a week]. First you will absolutely need both metric and SAE. US companies have begun shifting over so its not uncommon to find a mix or something new entirely metric [recent Briggs engines]. Now on with the tools

1/4"-3/8" of both SAE and Metric from 5mm-19mm sets in chrome. Metric 3/8 really doesnt get used too often since 10mm bolts holds most things together and 1/4" drive suffices for that.

1/4 Long and Stubby Ratchet [alternately a bit ratchet in place of the stubby]
3/8 Ratchet [go-to]
1/2" Ratchet [will be used rarely-in my experience]
6" & 12" 3/8 extension [make the 6" a locking extension if you can]
3/6/12" extensions in 1/4"
1/4" swivels [mainly 10mm, 12mm, and 3/8 swivels in 1/2" + 9/16".
1/2" Impacts Deep SAE 1/2"-1" and a 14mm + 6" Impact Extension
25" Pry Bar
16oz Ball Pein
4lb Mallet (~14" handle)
Plastic Mallet
Channellock Adjustables with a rounded jaw
Vise Grips -smaller needle nose and locking plier with curved jaw and a larger clamp style.
Mini Hose Pinch Pliers-Get a few pair [Sears sells them]
8" Side Cutters
Long skinny needle nose pliers 6" sometimes found under electricians pliers
8" Long [Needle]Nose Pliers with a Cutter
6" Slip Joint Pliers
Long Reach Pliers straight and Bent [45* or 90* tip]
13/16, 3/4 and 5/8 Spark Plug Sockets
Cut-Off Tool that uses 3" wheels
3/8" Drill [1/2" needed rarely]
3/8 Air Ratchet
1/2" Impact Wrench [Air Or Electric will work]
Good set of punches/chisels especially roll pin punches.
Sacrificial set of flat blade screwdrivers to be used as punches/pry bars
Good set of screwdrivers [mainly P2/P3 and a very long small [skinny tip] slotted blade]
T10/15/20 Torx Drivers
T20-T30 Torx Sockets
E4 E-Torx Socket
Full Set of Standard Hex Bit Sockets
Long Pattern/Reach Combination wrenchess in MM [from 8mm-16mm] and Standard [1/4-1" -anything larger than 3/4" used rarely]
Ratcheting Box Wrenches In MM and Standard
Basic Multimeter
Torque Wrench[es] that go from 40-250 inch lbs.
Standard and Metric Hex Key Set
Gasket Scraper [Straight Handle]
Right Angle Die Grinder With small Wire Wheels [for rust and intake gaskets/carbon removal]
Snap Ring Pliers
Feeler Gauge
Decent Pocket Flashlight
Mini Picks

About all i can remember and i'm guessing the shop will have some of this covered like the pneumatic tools/impacts so you probably wont need to actually buy all of it. There are also some specialty tools to get [carb seat pullers/installers/jet screwdrivers, spark/compression testers, leakdown testers, tachs, flywheel knockoff tools & pullers etc..] but they're obtainable through the dealer distributors so they should take care of you.

Most importantly, before you buy anything, get a powered screw gun. I use my Bosch PS-21 all the time during small engine / outdoor power equipment repair. Tons of tiny fasteners. It will be an extension of your arm and an enormous time saver. Get 6" P2 P3 T30 drivers for it and magnetic nut drivers in 1/4" 5/16" 3/8" 7/16" 1/2" 8mm, 10mm and 12mm.

As far as storage, if you have the space in the shop get a cart and work next to that at the bench, dont bother with a box setup. With some creative storage you can get most everything in. The NAPA cart is great, the HF carts would also suffice if you could put a small box on the bottom or side for additional storage as well.

 

[jhn9840]

I do work on small engines as a hobby. The list of tools Skin gave you is excellant. You might want to consider a decent set of taps&dies at some time. A couple of accessories that I picked up after getting into it a little deeper and found to be great help.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cylinder-leak-down-tester-94190.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/500-amp-carbon-pile-load-tester-91129.html

Not saying to buy from Harbor Freight. Amazon.com gives a larger selection to choose from. Good luck in your new job.

jhn9840
John

 

[ephotrod]

Advise on buying tools: Buy what you need as you need it and the best you can afford at the time and don't return to this forum. If you come back you will have one of every brand with special red lube of love in every ratchet. Short Mid and deep sockets, 14 crescents, every hammer on sale and about a million vises that will need to be rebuilt.
Josh

 

[dankicksass]

I can't see much reason to have more than a 3-4 drawer hand box for a small engine job. 3/8 ratchet set, similar sized ratcheting wrench set, maybe a set of ign wrenches, deadblow hammer, pliers, screwdrivers, nutdrivers and hex keys... just the basics. Throw a test light in there. No need to go broke over a p/t job. Craftsman, Husky, Channellock, keep it simple.

 

[Skin]

I can't see much reason to have more than a 3-4 drawer hand box for a small engine job.

Another member said this above about how everything can fit in a cantilever box so i just want to clarify that a certified small engine repair shop normally includes whatever piece of equipment the engine is bolted to as well. Assuming that is indeed what the OP is doing you will not be successful [or at the very least an efficient worker] limiting yourself to just what you can fit in those boxes.

On the flip side if they're mostly parts swappers [due to new parts costs vs labor rates] and dont go beyond the engine then yea, a small box will be fine.