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Advice on Dawn Offset Vice restore

daavvee

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Jul 17, 2016
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Hi guys,

I think I did alright and picked up this beast for yesterday $60

126mm/5inch jaws, 190mm/7.5inch opening. Weighs a ton. Not sure if it is cast iron or steel? Not very clear if it says 508 or 608?

(sorry I can't get resize to work)
KBD0mPY.jpg


2YdJ9Mg.jpg


Would like some advice on the best way to clean up the rust and look after it so it stays in the family for 100+ years.

I have a hobby level sandblaster or an angle grinder/wirebrush but have read some people prefer electrolysis?

After cleaning should I paint or oil it? Love to hear your opinions on what is best

cheers
dave
 
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Coolabah

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Hi guys,

I think I did alright and picked up this beast for yesterday $60

126mm/5inch jaws, 190mm/7.5inch opening. Weighs a ton. Not sure if it is cast iron or steel? Not very clear if it says 508 or 608?

KBD0mPY.jpg


2YdJ9Mg.jpg


Would like some advice on the best way to clean up the rust and look after it so it stays in the family for 100+ years.

I have a hobby level sandblaster or an angle grinder/wirebrush but have read some people prefer electrolysis?

After cleaning should I paint or oil it? Love to hear your opinions on what is best

cheers
dave

can't see your pics for some reason. Sounds like a good buy, I have probably all variants of this piece of Aussie history. Does it say 125 mm ? in which case probably cast iron, unless it is not red. Factory Blue means cast steel. If it says 50s , then probably cast steel

No idea why I can't see the pics... meantime , description ?? I place all my vices in an electrolysis bath , clean up , prime then paint. I do not have the time to waste on any other process- works for me anyway !
 
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daavvee

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can't see your pics for some reason. Sounds like a good buy, I have probably all variants of this piece of Aussie history. Does it say 125 mm ? in which case probably cast iron, unless it is not red. Factory Blue means cast steel. If it says 50s , then probably cast steel

No idea why I can't see the pics... meantime , description ?? I place all my vices in an electrolysis bath , clean up , prime then paint. I do not have the time to waste on any other process- works for me anyway !

Thanks for the advice, yeah it's a rusty blue and could very well say 50S

Album is here, http://imgur.com/a/x6bJo
maybe your adblocker ignore imgur hosted pics?

cheers
Dave
 

metalmagpie

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Take it apart. You may not be able to get the one remaining vise jaw off yet. If not don't worry about it for now. Once it's apart, you can put one part at a time into a big pot of water with Cascade dishwashing detergent in it (quite a bit). Heat it until the whole pot simmers, then hold that temp for 1-2 hours. Remove it from the pot and pressure wash it. After that, go over it with a wire brush (cup-type with twisted wires on an angle grinder).
That should pretty much take it down to bare metal except for interior spaces where the grinder can't reach. Then you can decide what to do with the rusted-on jaw. Sandblasting won't help you get the one jaw off if the screws are frozen. At that point I'd do electrolytic derusting or you can dunk the part with the jaw into a container of Evaporust. Either of those will likely remove the rust to the point where you can get the one rusty jaw off. You will have one pair of factory jaw screws to measure up. You may not be able to buy off-the-shelf replacement screws. However, since you are going to have to make new jaws anyway, just design them to use socket head cap screws.

If you can afford it, machine the new jaws from A2 tool steel. Then heat treat it (the good thing about air-hardening steel is you only have to get it hot, don't have to quench it, just cooling in air will harden it) and temper it as desired, then the jaws need to go onto the surface grinder to be ground to final size, parallel and square. Don't forget to check that both your fixed jaw and moving jaw have the same exact screw location because sometimes they don't. You can drill and tap new jaw screw holes if you need to.

Then look at the vise screw assembly. It may need new pins if it's a Wilton-style, or it might need the nut derusted, or something might be cracked or missing. Fix everything, making sure the screw turns smoothly and solidly through its whole range. Make a new handle. I like to make my vise handle a bit longer than stock. I turn down the ends to a shoulder in about 3/4", then bore holes in two pieces of bar of larger diameter than the handle stock so they can slide over the turned-down handle ends and bottom out on the shoulder. I make mine about 1" deep, so the handle end is recessed about 1/4". Put the handle through the vise screw, turn it vertical and plug weld the end pieces to the handle. If you want, you can grind them smooth. This is easy and fast and super strong. If you want to go deluxe, get a pair of thick rubber washers waterjet cut to size, and stretch them like rubber bands over the heads until they sit neatly around the handle. That might save your hand from getting a bad pinch.

Now mask it and paint it and do final assembly and then you will have your 100 year heirloom.

Here's what my most recent restoration of a big vise looked like after it was done:
viseOnBase.jpg


Oh, and one last thing. Reduce the size of your pictures before you post them!

Good luck,

metalmagpie
 

Coolabah

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Thanks for the advice, yeah it's a rusty blue and could very well say 50S

Album is here, http://imgur.com/a/x6bJo
maybe your adblocker ignore imgur hosted pics?

cheers
Dave

Hey Dave,
This is indeed a 50s ( cast steel ) , some silly ****** has painted it blue. You are missing a vice jaw, good news is they are still available from Dawn as a new part , bad news is it will cost you more than you paid for the vice. I have replaced some jaws , around $80 if I am remembering correctly. Try Hare & Forbes or whomsoever you find better. I would definitely pull the vice apart and electrolysis bath it - no brainer. Then wire brush the bits that need it , then paint in factory finish - which is red for this vise I think

good luck hope this helps :beer:
 
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daavvee

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Oh, and one last thing. Reduce the size of your pictures before you post them!

Good luck,

metalmagpie

Awesome mate, thankyou.

Does the dishwashing liquid have a special ingredient? (I haven't seen that brand over here)

Sorry will fix the picture size now

cheers
Dave
 
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daavvee

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Hey Dave,
This is indeed a 50s ( cast steel ) , some silly ****** has painted it blue. You are missing a vice jaw, good news is they are still available from Dawn as a new part , bad news is it will cost you more than you paid for the vice. I have replaced some jaws , around $80 if I am remembering correctly. Try Hare & Forbes or whomsoever you find better. I would definitely pull the vice apart and electrolysis bath it - no brainer. Then wire brush the bits that need it , then paint in factory finish - which is red for this vise I think

good luck hope this helps :beer:

ok great, I will get cracking.

thanks guys
Dave
 

Coolabah

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Awesome mate, thankyou.

Does the dishwashing liquid have a special ingredient? (I haven't seen that brand over here)

Sorry will fix the picture size now

cheers
Dave

mate, DISHWASHER (which google tells me this product is ???) dishwashing detergent (very alkaline) + grease = soap.
It will clean up the vice of grease. So will any degreaser :headscrat
My thoughts - You need to reverse the rust and clean up that shi! blue aftermarket paint. But I am just an Aussie restorer of Aussie Dawn vices these last 20 years , what would I know ?? ;) :) LOL
 

1/2 Cup

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Dave, that is a steal, literally.:thumbup:

and secondly welcome aboard.:thumbup:

Coolabah is right the jaws can be replaced no problems.:thumbup:

I have to say an E bath works well.

Or may be just oil it up as it is, cleaned down naturally with new jaws, this will keep the patina just nice.

Looking forward to seeing how it come up.

Regards
 

Coolabah

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Would you happen to know where to get the correct red paint for a Dawn vice?

Cheers Andrew

There probably is , somewhere but I do not know. I have contacted Dawn numerous times but they are not interested in replying.
The more recent vices are more brown than red. I have had good results getting custom mixes at my paint shop by taking an old vice in , and have a bulk supply that I use , pretty close match. My early theory was that the colour was a standard colour eg colorbond red of some sort. Gets close but doesn't seem exact. I would love to know the answer to your question !
 
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daavvee

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awesome guys,

I'll start simple and work my way up to electrolysis. I have a knack for electrocuting myself so a little wary of it. Will be back with some progress pics once I get started

thanks again all

cheers
Dave
 

58Yeoman

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Right click on the non-showing image, then open in another window/tab. Go to the url and delete the i. at the beginning, then hit Enter. The image will show.
 

metalmagpie

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"Does the dishwashing liquid have a special ingredient? (I haven't seen that brand over here)"

Just a strong detergent. Use trisodium phosphate if you can get it, or even lye. Dishwashing detergent (powder) is just gentler than TSP which is a lot gentler than lye. If you use lye, wear goggles. One drip in an eye and its blinded forever.

metalmagpie
 
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daavvee

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"Does the dishwashing liquid have a special ingredient? (I haven't seen that brand over here)"

Just a strong detergent. Use trisodium phosphate if you can get it, or even lye. Dishwashing detergent (powder) is just gentler than TSP which is a lot gentler than lye. If you use lye, wear goggles. One drip in an eye and its blinded forever.

metalmagpie

Thanks mate,

Have asked Dawn about replacement Jaws and waiting to hear back

What kind of steel would you recommend for the handle? Might be beyond my abilities for a while :)

cheers
Dave
 

AJ.

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I would just straighten the handle you have.

But if you decide to replace it, I would go CRS, cold rolled shaft.

Cheers Andrew
 
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Coolabah

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Thanks mate,

Have asked Dawn about replacement Jaws and waiting to hear back

What kind of steel would you recommend for the handle? Might be beyond my abilities for a while :)

cheers
Dave

I would just straighten the handle you have.

But if you decide to replace it, I would go CRS, cold rolled shaft.

Cheers Andrew

Nothing wrong with the handle that I can see ! I would straighten it for sure if I felt like it - or NOT ...or else wire brush ... whatever. If you start overthinking it , it is less fun. I would never buy a vise with a replaced handle - the handle tells you what the vise has lived through. Best part of the vise. I have a 60s , the handle is like HAMMERED all over ... freakin" awesome... part of the history. I did straighten the handle a little, just my OCD..Patience, Luke Skywalker....
 

doily_grunge

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Would you happen to know where to get the correct red paint for a Dawn vice?



Cheers Andrew



G’day mate just thought I’d share this probably to late but the steel casts were originally painted blue. Here’s a pic from an old Dawn catalogue I have from 1967

4c543bcbe78b6efbf216c8798ad6cb77.jpg
 

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Ozwelder

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I just missed out on one of these from a guy a who would have traded it for a couple of cartons.( "Missed by that much" as Maxwell Smart used to say)

Just be aware guys that the current offset vices come in red (a maroon ,really ) and teal blue.
The red is cast iron and the blue is currently ductile iron iron and allegedly unbreakable.

Obviously the vice has never been used by apprentices I have worked with, who could break an anvil with a rubber handle.

Congratulations on scoring a top vice.

Oz
 

Ralf99

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I'm sure the vise has already been painted given the original post was from last year, but...

The vise is indeed cast "semi-steel" and was originally painted blue and likely still had the original paint. The 5OS markings on the dynamic jaw refer to being a 5" jaw OffSet vice, and below that STEEL means just that. Standard offset Dawn cast vices do not have that marking.
 

AJ.

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G’day mate just thought I’d share this probably to late but the steel casts were originally painted blue. Here’s a pic from an old Dawn catalogue I have from 1967

Yeah too late, my vice was originally red/brown and is long since painted. I found a near enough colour and left it at that.

Cheers Andrew
 

Coolabah

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G’day mate just thought I’d share this probably to late but the steel casts were originally painted blue. Here’s a pic from an old Dawn catalogue I have from 1967

4c543bcbe78b6efbf216c8798ad6cb77.jpg

Thats interesting , and I'm not saying you are wrong but every single "50s" and "60s" vice I've ever seen (apart from this thread ) has been red, including someone I know who bought his new in the 1960's. I've never found any blue paint under the red paint when stripping off the old paint on these pre-metric vices. The newer ( metric ? ) steel are indeed a factory blue/green colour, such as the 125 mm one I bought a few years ago. Not sure when they started this blue-ish colour, but I also haven't seen any metric steel vices that are red.

edit: oops I missed the sentence "cast steel vices painted blue" in the catalogue page when replying. However, I now "believe" ( with little evidence LOL) that this was not always the case. I suspect the blue paint was late imperial vices [maybe 1967 onwards ??] and thus all metric. Dunno
 

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Ralf99

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There probably is , somewhere but I do not know. I have contacted Dawn numerous times but they are not interested in replying.

The more recent vices are more brown than red. I have had good results getting custom mixes at my paint shop by taking an old vice in , and have a bulk supply that I use , pretty close match. My early theory was that the colour was a standard colour eg colorbond red of some sort. Gets close but doesn't seem exact. I would love to know the answer to your question !



I suspect that there is very little knowledge of Dawn history retained within the Dawn operation since the sale from Siddons in the mid 90's.
During the time that Siddons owned Dawn the vices were often painted in similar colours to the Rota/Sidchrome tool boxes, but there was a range of colours used. I have 10 or 12 Dawn in the shed at the moment from the 60's through to the early 90's, and would doubt that any two are actually the same shade.

Rustoleum Colonial Red has been a reasonable approximation on a few I have sold on, but not sure anyone could name a 'standard' Dawn colour.
 

1/2 Cup

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I suspect that there is very little knowledge of Dawn history retained within the Dawn operation since the sale from Siddons in the mid 90's.
During the time that Siddons owned Dawn the vices were often painted in similar colours to the Rota/Sidchrome tool boxes, but there was a range of colours used. I have 10 or 12 Dawn in the shed at the moment from the 60's through to the early 90's, and would doubt that any two are actually the same shade.

Rustoleum Colonial Red has been a reasonable approximation on a few I have sold on, but not sure anyone could name a 'standard' Dawn colour.

Ralf, there are some pretty close matches to the Dawn colour but i have never seen one that hits the mark. I am going to get some mixed for my wood work vise.:thumbup:
 

AJ.

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Rustoleum Colonial Red has been a reasonable approximation on a few I have sold on, but not sure anyone could name a 'standard' Dawn colour.

I reckon that's the colour I used. It was Rustoleum for sure.

Cheers Andrew
 

Ralf99

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Maybe it's because I haven't come across an entirely satisfactory (to me) colour, or maybe because I'm inherently lazy, but I've so far left all my user vices with their 'as found' patina - not sure which option is more accurate...
 

MDB

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There probably is , somewhere but I do not know. I have contacted Dawn numerous times but they are not interested in replying.
The more recent vices are more brown than red. I have had good results getting custom mixes at my paint shop by taking an old vice in , and have a bulk supply that I use , pretty close match. My early theory was that the colour was a standard colour eg colorbond red of some sort. Gets close but doesn't seem exact. I would love to know the answer to your question !

Could you please post the paint code from the side of the tin of your custom paint for a dawn vice that you mention. I have just restored my fathers 1950's vice and want to finish it in as close to proper "Dawn" colours.
 

Coolabah

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Could you please post the paint code from the side of the tin of your custom paint for a dawn vice that you mention. I have just restored my fathers 1950's vice and want to finish it in as close to proper "Dawn" colours.

oops didn't see your post 'till just now. I haven't restored any Dawn vices for a while ( all going for silly money now) and gave away my paint to a friend's mate that wanted to repaint his old Dawn. I'll see if I can track down that tin or at least the number, but I'm not sure I remember there being a number ?? I'll post back if I can help .Great project and I wish you well with it. Which Dawn vice is it ? Would love to see a photo of your restoration :beer:
 
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