Advice on first multimeter

[aaron_l]

Howdy,

I'm starting towards an associates degree in automotive tech this fall at Vermont Technical College. The Garage Journal forums have been really useful in helping me determine what brands I should invest in for the required tools. One decision I'm having trouble with is what multimeter to purchase. I know this has already been brought up multiple times (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48841), but some personal advice would be appreciated. It's got to be rated at least CAT III 1000V, and I'm looking towards a model with features like pulse width measurement for working on hybrids. The Fluke 88V seems like the obvious choice, but I'm also looking at the TPI 194 (http://www.testproductsintl.com/products/dmms/index.htm). (After some research, I'm pretty sure Test Products International manufactures Snap-On's multimeters.) Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[kornjulio]

Buy once, cry once. Fluke.

On a more logical note, visit some dealerships. Ask the techs there what's in their box.

 

[t100]

first one? either the cheapest($10 Cman) or the best(Fluke 88). I have both and both have been serving me well for their own purpuses.

 

[terabyte]

I would start with this.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LZU7K/?tag=atomicindus08-20
the manual on this sucker alone it worth the price of admission


if you want fluke on a budget check this out
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28659
here is a review
http://robotics.ong.id.au/2010/04/fluke-17b-multimeter-mini-review/
it will be my next meter for electronics

fluke 87 any series will never do you wrong either

 

[Griff93]

I have a fluke that I've been using for about 5 years now. It gets used daily. I would gladly buy it again. I don't think I'd worry about getting one for hybrid vehicles that will do PWM. You'll probably be using an oscilloscope for that kind of stuff.

 

[mrholeshot]

Fluke 88 and be done with it. You will get over the +-350 dollars that it cost. Mine is 10 years old and is used constantly. Don't loan it out.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Not to lead you down a path but I also have a Fluke 88. It will be the last meter you willl need to buy for a LONG time.

 

[Davefr]

Fluke is junk. The LCD fails after a few years. They use some half *** rubber strips to connect the LCD to the circuit board which fails over time.

If you don't believe me go to Ebay and see all the repair kits for failed LCDs.

 

[bindernut]

I have a fluke. Don't use it much, but it's nice. Dad has one that's 15 years old if it's a day. Lots of friends have flukes. Never heard of the display failing.

 

[willf650]

Fluke is junk. The LCD fails after a few years. They use some half *** rubber strips to connect the LCD to the circuit board which fails over time.

If you don't believe me go to Ebay and see all the repair kits for failed LCDs.

I have every fluke I and my employers have ever purchased since I started working in 93. 2 are 17 years old and still functional, 6 different models in total now. The only issue I've ever had with an LCD was a back light stopped working. Sent it to Davis Inotech and had it repaired. A Fluke is a meter actually worth having repaired.

 

[tonydanzah]

Fluke 88 and be done with it. You will get over the +-350 dollars that it cost. Mine is 10 years old and is used constantly. Don't loan it out.

you can get them for much cheaper now, espically with ebay. I paid $300 for a used fluke 289.

 

[Stick]

To quote myself from the thread that you linked:

If I had to do it all over again here is what I'd do: Buy a powerprobe 3, and an old style mt2400 vantage.

I use the powerprobe pretty much daily, and it'll do all of the quick checks you would usually use a meter for, along with being a test light, and a power/ground supply for testing components.

The old style vantage units can be purchased for pennies on the dollar compared to what they used to sell for off the trucks (I just picked up a second mt2400 for $110 with a set of leads). They are a graphing multimeter, and you can use it to check waveforms of components like cam/crank sensors, MAF sensors, and a ton more. It will also walk you through the component test, and give an explanation of how the component works. The last software version of the 2400 was v7.0, but v6.0 or 5.0 will take you up to model year '03 and '02 if I recall correctly.

Once you get better at electrical diagnosis you can step up to a Vantage Pro or a picoscope to get a true labscope. Once you start using a labscope or graphing meter, you'll never want to go back to an old style meter for diagnosics.

Just today I used my vantage pro on a no start to find a bad fuel pump relay, check current draw for the pump, and verify the integrity of the pump (making sure it was just a bad relay, and not the pump going bad and taking out the relay), all in about ten minutes. With a low amp probe, you can even see the current draw of the commutators in the pump motor to find bad windings. Pretty cool stuff.

Honestly, I've got a fluke 179 that has seen tons of use over the last ten years, but since I bought my first vantage, the poor yellow meter hardly ever sees the light of day. The day to day stuff is usually covered by my powerprobe, and anything beyond that I grab the vantage or vantage pro depending on what I'm doing.

Seriously, pick up a used Snap-on Vantage MT2400 from ebay. I see them sell for under $300 most of the time and if you keep your eyes open and can wait, you can pick one up for $100-150. Not bad for a tool that used to list for ~$1500 or so. Once you get used to looking at a graphing meter, you'll never want to go back to a standard meter. Since it is designed from the ground up to be an automotive meter, it has all of the stuff you should need for testing, including the pulsewidth testing that you mentioned as well as dwell and duty cycles among others.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that it has two channels as well, so you can look at more than one component at a time. Handy for seeing relationships between sensors and the like.

 

[nexum1919]

Don't forget to get extra fuses, you'll need them. Buy the recommended style fuses (not the generic glass fast blow type sold on radioshack).
When you are loaning out your meter, test the fuses with them and tell them that they have to pay for the fuses they blow during use, and check them when you receive the meter back. Or get a $20 craftsman meter to loan out.

I'd recommend fluke brand, but it doesn't have to be the 88 'Automotive' meter, I have the 175 at home and 87V at work. 87V does everything 88 does except pulse width (which can be calculated with frequency and duty cycle values) and the rpm and dwell stuff, most scan tools take care of that stuff anyways.

It's true that any meter will measure the battery voltage, but when it comes to peak min/max detection, frequency, low voltage etc. measurements, you'll be stranded with a $20 craftsman meter. One of the ways of finding the circuit causing a parasitic drain without disturbing the body control modules is to measure the voltage drop across the fuse tips. It's a very low mV measurement, but even the slightest current running thru the fuse will cause a voltage drop across its legs (after all, a 10 amp fuse is a 11 amp heater, right?). It's incredibly minute, but it's there. But you can only see it with a high quality meter like a fluke. With experience, you can even tell how many amps flowing thru a particular fuse just by measuring that very small voltage drop across the legs..

One last advice for automotive applications: Meters have range settings, like 4-40-400 etc. Some have 4-40-400, some 5-50-500 most newer flukes have 6-60-600. Try to avoid the 4-40 range setup, since most digital circuits and sensors run on 5V buses on cars. Although a 40V range will give you enough resolution for any 5V measurement, you'll definitely want to go for the 6-60 range setup. But it's not a huge deal breaker.

 

[Fedwrench]

Check out the automotive meters from ESI. http://www.esitest.com/

thay're accurate, durable, and won't break the bank if you shop around at tooltopia.com I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Snap on Vantage Pro. It's an excellent tool that will make you park your fluke. On a different note, my shop got the new Snap on Hybrid DMM. It blows. It's bulky and came with crappy test leads. It's hard to believe the thing says snap on on it. Good lucki n your quest.

 

[t100]

Sent it to Davis Inotech and had it repaired. A Fluke is a meter actually worth having it repaired.

why you have to pay somebody to have it "repaired"?

Fluke is junk. The LCD fails after a few years. They use some half *** rubber strips to connect the LCD to the circuit board which fails over time.

If you don't believe me go to Ebay and see all the repair kits for failed LCDs.

those repair kits are RIP-OFF's.

listen, if anyone who has the brain to use a meter, he/she needs to know how to change the meter's fuse. if you're capable to doing that, then you can clean the LCD contacts in less than 3 minutes. you should consider yourself electronically handicapped if you need more than 5.

just watch this:

 

[tonydanzah]

To quote myself from the thread that you linked:





Seriously, pick up a used Snap-on Vantage MT2400 from ebay. I see them sell for under $300 most of the time and if you keep your eyes open and can wait, you can pick one up for $100-150. Not bad for a tool that used to list for ~$1500 or so. Once you get used to looking at a graphing meter, you'll never want to go back to a standard meter. Since it is designed from the ground up to be an automotive meter, it has all of the stuff you should need for testing, including the pulsewidth testing that you mentioned as well as dwell and duty cycles among others.

Edit: Also forgot to mention that it has two channels as well, so you can look at more than one component at a time. Handy for seeing relationships between sensors and the like.

I would pick up a used UEI before the vantage, much newer and more features, some models let you graph 4 sensor at once.

 

[Major Ramifications]

first one? either the cheapest($10 Cman) or the best(Fluke 88). I have both and both have been serving me well for their own purpuses.

I don't think that $10 Craftsman will be rated Cat III.

 

[Davefr]

why you have to pay somebody to have it "repaired"?




those repair kits are RIP-OFF's.

listen, if anyone who has the brain to use a meter, he/she needs to know how to change the meter's fuse. if you're capable to doing that, then you can clean the LCD contacts in less than 3 minutes. you should consider yourself electronically handicapped if you need more than 5.

just watch this:

But why should you have to deal with these LCD issues after paying a premium price for these meters??

 

[Stick]

I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Snap on Vantage Pro. It's an excellent tool that will make you park your fluke.

While I absolutely love my vantage pro and use it to troubleshoot all kinds of problems that would be hard to find with a standard meter, I would find it hard to recommend a $2500 labscope to someone just getting into the field. An original MT2400 Vantage would teach him how to use a meter, and the graphing capabilities and multi channel setups possible on it are good training for future use with a labscope, and valuable for seeing what is actually going on with the signal.

Hard to beat for the going rate on ebay, hell there are three of them on there right now with bids under $200.

 

[t100]

what issues? if the meter can last 30 years(many Fluke's have), spend few minutes of your time every 3 years to clean it, is not an issue for me at all.

 

[Stick]

I would pick up a used UEI before the vantage, much newer and more features, some models let you graph 4 sensor at once.

Honest question for you, what model of UEI graphing meter or scope can you pick up for under $300? What features does the UEI have that a used Vantage doesn't have?

I know the ADL7103 can be used as a scope or as a graphing meter, but it's ~$1200. Not saying that UEI stuff isn't nice, just that a used Vantage for under $300 is a hell of a deal. Being out of date for a Vantage isn't a big deal, the only thing you miss out on are updated connector diagrams, but that doesn't change how the meter functions.

 

[willf650]

why you have to pay somebody to have it "repaired"?

Well because I tried to fix it and it didn't correct the problem and it was a $400 meter.

I do intrumentation for a living and have 3 meters that go to Davis Inotech every year do be NIST certified even if they work fine. When doing commissioning on a system that certificate needs to be listed on some documents.

 

[mrholeshot]

Fluke is junk. The LCD fails after a few years. They use some half *** rubber strips to connect the LCD to the circuit board which fails over time.

If you don't believe me go to Ebay and see all the repair kits for failed LCDs.

Any meter can fail, the problems are usually minor but with Fluke they are worth a repair if need be. Just the fact parts are readily available should tell you something. It's not a disposable meter like so many are. I own at least 50 DDMs (OCD) and my most used is a Fluke 87 I bought back in 1984. It's never had a repair of any kind. The 88 is designed around automotive use. I bought my first 88 when they first came out. The only reason I replaced it with a new 88 is the shop I was working at burned down and it was in the box.

 

[aaron_l]

Decided on the Fluke 88V, figuring that if I was going to have to blow some cash on a CAT III 1000V multimeter, might as well go all the way. Thanks for everyone's advice.

 

[lortech]

I used to work at Fluke. I can attest to there meters

Flukes meters go though a battery of very tough test R&D test from Intense RF
injection in a large Faraday cage, to subzero temperature testings to sand blasting. The meters are built tough. Also, because they are the best, Fluke has there own legal department. Ontop of the file cabinets, are 12 plus copies of the flukes with a big cross on them. Those are the knock offs created by companies that fluke successfully sued

Unfortunately, due to international pressures from cheaper meters, fluke has has to outsource some of its work over the years and trim its budget in many departments. This has resulted in many layoffs. Fluke is owned by a holding company and it was responsible for asking its ceo to trim the budgets after they did a efficiency review of the various departments over the years.

I just hope they do stay #1. It helps the Washington state economy.

 

[Steve_P]

I have a "cheaper" (it's all relative) fluke, don't know the number but it's 15-16 yrs old and still works fine so I will join the "buy the Fluke" chorus. The LCD did fail on my dad's Fluke after 20+ yrs, so it can happen, but it's not like no other mfg doesn't have the same issues.

 

[crewchief888]

ive had 2 fluke meters in the past 25 years. 1st one was 20 or so years old
i found out that when you run them over with a loader, they sorta stop working.

i talked to fluke, unfortunately it was out of warranty by several years, and with the amount of damage, it wasnt worth repairing,
they did give me $110 trade in on a new meter.

correct me if i'm wrong,
flukes warranty is 12 years?

i do have a couple other meters, but i like the fluke the best. all the heavy eq OEM's that ive worked for recommend fluke, and use them for their electrical diagnostic schools.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Good choice!

My fluke DMM is 23 years old and still works as good an new.

My BIL worked for 10 years in an instrument calibration lab of an aerospace company. He said he never saw a single fluke meter that was out of tolerance.

Chris

 

[LettyLocke]

I bought a Fluke multimeter in my time and then upgraded to this one after one semester. Both worked great for me. After all, it's all about precision in the end. Choose wisely.

 

[Canadian Charlie]

My first meter was a cheap one from Canadian Tire back in the early 80's. I still have it but have added a few better ones over the years

 

[trainer]

My first meter was a cheap one from Canadian Tire back in the early 80's. I still have it but have added a few better ones over the years

I got one of CTC's cheap multimeters for christmas. it's so inaccurate on the voltage scale that it's pretty much useless. A 12v battery that should show ~13volts reads 20+ on this thing

 

[priceman1414]

My dad has had a fluke for a LONG time - after a long time, a small part of the lcd screen failed, there was just a little black blob in the middle of the screen. It was still readable but he wanted it repaired. Fluke wanted to charge a lot for the repair, so instead my dad just gave it to a friend who fixed electronics as a hobby and he fixed it for five bucks. Rest of the meter still works like new.

 

[Hyster Gareth]

Fluke all the way.