Advice on my epoxy/polyaspartic garage floor

[cofbd]

Hello:

I just had a new epoxy+polyaspartic floor put in. 400 sf garage, $6/sf = $2,400. I have NOT paid yet but I expect payment will be requested tomorrow.

The job was completed 2 days ago. I am unhappy with it as it stands and I will be addressing my concerns with the installation company tomorrow.

This job could be described as these steps: grind, apply epoxy, full flake coverage, scrape down and vacuum, with a final coat of polyaspartic. The job was 2 days and did have some smell with the polyaspartic, but the smell has cleared out fine in a couple days. The 2-man crew (not including the company owner) was here a total of about 4 hours the first day and 2 hours the second day.

Both the epoxy and polyaspartic were rolled on. In other words NO squeegee was ever involved.

My unhappiness comes from the thin coverage on the top coat. In my opinion, if there were any less material applied, it would not be there at all. The surface is quite rough. From my 1-day experience so far, any mud from a shoe just presses into the surface and will not come out without detailed attention with a scrub brush. Running your hand over the floor will draw blood because the flakes are so sharp. My initial expectation was that this floor would be easier to clean than bare concrete, but there is just no way that is true with what I have now.

After watching many videos on YouTube as part of my research, I always thought that the final coating was applied with a squeegee so the uneven surfaces were "mostly" filled in. I witnessed the crew rolling on the topcoat, which as anyone knows will apply less product than a squeegee.

I do understand that some roughness is certainly desirable to avoid people slipping, so I am not expecting a skating rink surface here. Does it seem unreasonable to expect better coverage than I have? I will post a photo.

Thank you!

 

[typhooon]

Had my floor done (1900 sq ft) 2 years ago. Same result as you. It was very thin rolled on top coat. I complained and they offered to "fix it" for $2000. They said it is supposed to be that way. I just lived with it. After a couple years of wear it has seemed to smooth out a bit so it is acceptable now. I think they just cut corners now days.

 

[Rc_Guy]

I had mine done a couple months ago, about $5.30 sqft, about $8600 here, looks great. 2 guys grinding for nine hours first day, 2 guys finishing grinding second day and doing the epoxy layer and flecks, third day 5 guys rolling on the clear coat for about 3 hours.

 

[cofbd]

I had mine done a couple months ago, about $5.30 sqft, about $8600 here, looks great. 2 guys grinding for nine hours first day, 2 guys finishing grinding second day and doing the epoxy layer and flecks, third day 5 guys rolling on the clear coat for about 3 hours.

I’m glad your floor looks great. Does it look smoother than mine as shown in the photo?

 

[Rc_Guy]

I’m glad your floor looks great. Does it look smoother than mine as shown in the photo?

Yes

 

[cofbd]

Yes

Wow it is beautiful!

 

[brnctt]

For what it's worth, mine is also full flake and appears to have a thicker top coat than your photo. It's definitely bumpy if you run your hand over it but nothing is going to catch on a flake.

 

[Dodge]

Is there a warranty?

 

[cofbd]

The crew will return this week. I will update what unfolds.

 

[cofbd]

Is there a warranty?

Yes, a lifetime warranty. But (1) I haven't paid yet and (2) If an installer's position is "that is the type of floor we do" then it isn't a warranty issue in the classic sense, since nothing has "failed."

 

[cofbd]

By the way, it may interest someone to know that I spoke with the local epoxy/aspartic supplier personally. They supplied the resin to my installer.

They said normally that this product is put on with a squeegee and backrolled as a final step. This process would tend to "fill in" all the nooks and crannies as the squeegee passes over. However, this process would tend to use up a lot of material. It runs about $100/gal. I did not ask if this was 1 gal of each part (A+B) or 1/2 gal of each part. He said normally for their product on a "chip floor" it would take 1.25 gal to cover 100 square feet. So for a 2-car garage that would be about 5 gallons.

Simply rolling the material on (no squeegee used) "can" work but it clearly is not putting as much Aspartic down as a squeegee spreading the material across the floor. Most YouTube videos I've seen use the squeegee method, I am not an expert; it's just something I have noticed on YouTube.

Anyone considering this type of garage floor should investigate for themselves not only the color choices available, but also what the final roughness will be. Look at a completed job or two from your candidate installer. Also, ask point blank if it will be squeegeed on then backrolled or only rolled. You may as well know in advance what you are getting. Also, ask how many gallons of resin will be applied for your job.

One selling point of this floor type is that it is easily cleaned with a mop and a squeegee. But if the final surface is excessively rough, it's actually harder to clean than a bare concrete floor. Dirt/dust/mud will just fill in the nooks and solidify. If that happens, what is the point of this type of floor?

 

[dandan111]

I just mopped mine for the first time this fall. It shredded my mop. I’m hoping it will smooth out more as it ages some.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Hi,
Topcoat is a thin product. What seems to have happened is that they did not scrape or sand enough the flecks high spots which get created by the overlapping of the flecks. Have them come in and sand well the floor so it's smoother and re-topcoat. This is fixable, they just need to do it. Don't let them just add more topcoat as topcoat won't 'fix' a floor.

 

[cofbd]

Hi,
Topcoat is a thin product. What seems to have happened is that they did not scrape or sand enough the flecks high spots which get created by the overlapping of the flecks. Have them come in and sand well the floor so it's smoother and re-topcoat. This is fixable, they just need to do it. Don't let them just add more topcoat as topcoat won't 'fix' a floor.

This agrees with what the installer company owner told me. The plan is to do what you describe.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Sounds great! They did a crappy job of finishing the flecks before topcoating, so now it;s costing them more time and material to satisfy the customer and get paid. We see a lot of professionals using a rotary or orbital floor sander to smooth out the flecks prior to topcoat. Topcoat will not 'fill in' much nooks and crannies.

 

[FJ4FUN]

For the good of the group, post some pics of the repaired floor.

 

[cofbd]

Sounds great! They did a crappy job of finishing the flecks before topcoating, so now it;s costing them more time and material to satisfy the customer and get paid. We see a lot of professionals using a rotary or orbital floor sander to smooth out the flecks prior to topcoat. Topcoat will not 'fill in' much nooks and crannies.

I see what you are saying 100%. Seeing as this type of floor to me is new, I hired a professional who has been in the business 7-10 years. The crew definitely did not sand. They scraped it with a blade. One of the crew members has been doing this for a while. My only conclusion is that most customers are clueless or are flipping the home or just don't question things and the installer gets paid and moves on.

I just mopped mine for the first time this fall. It shredded my mop. I’m hoping it will smooth out more as it ages some.

Your floor looks better than mine does currently. However, I still don't like it because for me, the floor should be "mostly smooth" with some flakes protruding a bit being okay. (You can reasonably argue that this prevents slipping, although I'd rather have a smooth cleanable floor and just keep it dry.)

If your mop is being shredded, I don't see what the advantage is to these types of floors. It's supposed to look good, be resilient and easily cleanable. It's not supposed to look good just until the house is sold and then look like a mud-impregnated mess afterwards.

For you I think it may be worth getting a "scrub brush on a stick" to clean it, and then maybe a tough industrial quality squeegee on a stick to push the water out of the garage or to a drain. Maybe there is a mop out there that is designed for rougher floors.

 

[cofbd]

For the good of the group, post some pics of the repaired floor.

Will do.

 

[cofbd]

After the floor was screen sanded and re-rolled with polyaspartic, the floor is closer to what I was expecting. It isn't dead smooth but it's "mostly smooth" which is what I wanted to be able to clean it.

 

[FJ4FUN]

That represents a properly finished floor. To get any "smoother" you'd need to start messing with flood coats and more sanding. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jayman17]

that looks way better than your first photo imo.

 

[mepstein]

So the lesson here is don’t pay until you are satisfied. As soon as a contractor gets their money, you have no leverage.

 

[Armorpoxy]

A fleck type floor shold not be 'dead smooth' and it they always have some texture which helps reduce slippage.

 

[Rockbreaker321]

I had the exact same problem with my floor as you, very rough finish, top coat seemed very thin, not very shiny. Installers were a national franchise that I thought would do a professional job but seems I was wrong. They knocked 2 holes in the drywall about 4 ft off the floor, left 2 brown stains on the fresh concrete in the driveway in a 2 ft diameter, left the fiber board uncovered where the block met the floor. They came back a week later and hand sanded the floor (they said the big sander was broken), and reapplied the top coat. This time it seems like they didnt squeegee the top coat out well, in places its very smooth and shiny like the top coat is very thick and other places its still somewhat rough and not as shiny, oh and they knocked another hole in the drywall this time bigger than the other 2 and didnt say anything about it. I sent a picture to the office manager because the owner has not returned any of my calls, she apologized and would forward to the owner. 4 days later I havent heard from anyone. The cost was 5.50/ft with half upfront so I'm sure they will call at some point wanting the rest of their money, so I am just waiting to see what they plan on doing. Everyone should research these companies and hold them accountable when they underperform and before long they will get better workmanship or go out of business. I should have done better research and I am paying for it now. Any suggestions moving forward?

 

[lschwarcz]

A couple of years ago I applied an epoxy coating to my shop floor. I did the job myself and did not use any flakes for the color. After the first coat I broadcast a sand type product to give some traction to the final product.

My issue the final product is flaking up in some spots from tire pressure and discoloration from some automotive oils.

I used the Ghostshield paints.

The process was:

• Cleaned the floor very well by sweeping and vacuuming all debris and then mopping with Simple Green.
• Prepping the surface with the Ghostshield Eco-Etch 1001.
• Two coats of their Epoxy 325. I broadcast Aspergrit on the still wet first coat of this epoxy for texture. It's like a white looking sand.
• One coat of their Urethane 645

This cost about $1,500 for all of the materials including shipping and it looks nice, but the flaking/peeling and discoloration has me disappointed in the product.





I had to have a concrete contractor come out afterwards to cut out a couple of 6' x 6' squares to make a thicker footer for my car lift and painted that with some epoxy floor paint from Sherwin Williams. They were able to color match it perfectly but I don't know yet if that stuff stands up better against flaking/peeling or discoloration yet.

Just thought I'd add my experience to the thread for others!

Good luck!
Larry.

 

[cofbd]

I had the exact same problem with my floor as you, very rough finish, top coat seemed very thin, not very shiny. Installers were a national franchise that I thought would do a professional job but seems I was wrong. They knocked 2 holes in the drywall about 4 ft off the floor, left 2 brown stains on the fresh concrete in the driveway in a 2 ft diameter, left the fiber board uncovered where the block met the floor. They came back a week later and hand sanded the floor (they said the big sander was broken), and reapplied the top coat. This time it seems like they didnt squeegee the top coat out well, in places its very smooth and shiny like the top coat is very thick and other places its still somewhat rough and not as shiny, oh and they knocked another hole in the drywall this time bigger than the other 2 and didnt say anything about it. I sent a picture to the office manager because the owner has not returned any of my calls, she apologized and would forward to the owner. 4 days later I havent heard from anyone. The cost was 5.50/ft with half upfront so I'm sure they will call at some point wanting the rest of their money, so I am just waiting to see what they plan on doing. Everyone should research these companies and hold them accountable when they underperform and before long they will get better workmanship or go out of business. I should have done better research and I am paying for it now. Any suggestions moving forward?

Your story describes quite an awful experience. The installers at your garage sound like they weren't properly trained, didn't care, or both. It's not clear how installers (or anyone) could knock holes in drywall accidentally. I guess you'd have to witness it to understand how they did it.

When I was in my 20's I paid a concrete man a modest down payment on a concrete job and he immediately ghosted me. I called his company and his office manager hung up on me. I basically paid money to learn a lesson. Ever since then, I generally do not put any money down on small jobs. If a company is that desperate for a few hundred dollars, run away! Any garage floor coating installer who has been in business for years and has good reviews will not require a down payment. If your installer requires funds in advance, say "no thank you, sorry." I had three quotes and none of them required a down payment. DO expect to sign an agreement describing the work to be done and how much it will cost. Don't lose this paper.

If you MUST put down funds with anyone on a small job, pay with a credit card so you have some ability to dispute it. The credit card will return your money while the dispute is being argued. You can supply all your photos to the arbitrator and hopefully convince them. If the company doesn't take credit cards and wants money up front, run away fast.

Going forward? Don't let a day go by without contacting them somehow. First I would start with honey (not vinegar). I would send your pictures to the office manager or owner's email. Point at the damage with arrows on your picture. Date the picture. If you have photos of THEIR crew in YOUR garage working, send those too. Same for their vehicles with license plate. (Always take pictures like these lest a contractor deny they were ever at your house).

First, be nice. Ask them to call you to discuss how they will "make it right" so you can pay them. If they ghost you entirely, they are NOT going to want the other half of the money. In fact, even if you paid half up front, they could still be upside down on the job depending on the cost of their materials and labor. Maybe their company is on the verge of collapse anyway and you just engaged with them at the wrong time. Maybe the owner hired some bad labor. Give the owner a fair chance to reply and make it right, but if they ghost you, then move on to increasing amounts of vinegar. First, contact the national franchise office and see what they can do. They may be willing to connect you with another local franchisee to correct things.

If you paid cash and get nowhere above, you have limited recourse. I would file a complaint with the BBB, which doesn't take long. Also, if you have the time and want to do it on principle, take the franchise company to small claims court. I would leave a bad review with lots of photos with arrows. This is very compelling to potential customers reading reviews. If you do leave a bad review, only do so assuming the company and you have already parted ways forever,

Assuming you want to get your floor right the way you want it, I would call a couple other companies, explain what happened, and have them quote repairing the floor or redoing the floor. Tell them you are flexible on schedule for when they are slow. They may give you a slightly lower end bid if they feel bad for you. May. Probably will not though.

I hope you get the floor you want in the end. If you end up paying more but getting the floor you want, the sting of the lost money will fade away, but if the floor isn't right you will be irritated by it every time you see it.

 

[cofbd]

A couple of years ago I applied an epoxy coating to my shop floor. I did the job myself and did not use any flakes for the color. After the first coat I broadcast a sand type product to give some traction to the final product.

My issue the final product is flaking up in some spots from tire pressure and discoloration from some automotive oils.

I used the Ghostshield paints.

The process was:

• Cleaned the floor very well by sweeping and vacuuming all debris and then mopping with Simple Green.
• Prepping the surface with the Ghostshield Eco-Etch 1001.
• Two coats of their Epoxy 325. I broadcast Aspergrit on the still wet first coat of this epoxy for texture. It's like a white looking sand.
• One coat of their Urethane 645

This cost about $1,500 for all of the materials including shipping and it looks nice, but the flaking/peeling and discoloration has me disappointed in the product.





I had to have a concrete contractor come out afterwards to cut out a couple of 6' x 6' squares to make a thicker footer for my car lift and painted that with some epoxy floor paint from Sherwin Williams. They were able to color match it perfectly but I don't know yet if that stuff stands up better against flaking/peeling or discoloration yet.

Just thought I'd add my experience to the thread for others!

Good luck!
Larry.

As I understand it, the diamond grinding step (step 1) is not only to remove any contamination that could inhibit epoxy bond strength, but it also delivers the "perfect roughness" that is optimal for the epoxy to stick. If you perfectly clean and etch your concrete but it is too smooth, the epoxy will not bond as well as it could have with the correct surface roughness. Etching helps for sure, but I think diamond grinding is the gold standard. This doesn't mean exquisitely installed epoxy can't fail, but only that doing it "just the right way" will give you the best performance possible.

I am happy with my floor for now, but I still have a tiny voice of concern in the back of my mind since any floor like this can fail under the right conditions.

 

[Rockbreaker321]

the owner finally contacted me yesterday, of coarse by email, never received a call from him. He was asking me where we stand, said they cleaned a coffee spill off of my new concrete driveway that clearly wasnt coffee and is still noticeable , asked if I had the quote to repair the drywall, I told him I did and it was $150 how did he want to handle it,
and said they applied an additional topcoat a $1000 value at no charge. I sent him a long email back about the poor workmanship and communication , told him if they had done it right the first time they would not have had to put an additional topcoat and came back 3 times wasting my time and theirs. We will see where this goes from here.

 

[FJ4FUN]

FYI: Those holes were likely the result of an inexperienced operator "behind the wheel" of a 175rpm floor maintainer which they used to sand the topcoat. The holes were probably located about 3-4' above the floor (?) and were the result of the handle getting loose and swinging into the wall. Pro-tip for DIYers, unless you've used one before, ALWAYS start in the middle of the floor away from walls until you get the hang of how these operate and then approach the outer perimeter.

 

[FJ4FUN]

As I understand it, the diamond grinding step (step 1) is not only to remove any contamination that could inhibit epoxy bond strength, but it also delivers the "perfect roughness" that is optimal for the epoxy to stick. If you perfectly clean and etch your concrete but it is too smooth, the epoxy will not bond as well as it could have with the correct surface roughness. Etching helps for sure, but I think diamond grinding is the gold standard. This doesn't mean exquisitely installed epoxy can't fail, but only that doing it "just the right way" will give you the best performance possible.

I am happy with my floor for now, but I still have a tiny voice of concern in the back of my mind since any floor like this can fail under the right conditions.

Yep, diamond grinding IS the gold standard. It removes the thin, weaker laitance/skim/cream coat exposing the underlying porous concrete structure which promotes deeper absorption of the base coat (primer) adding mechanical strength to the bondline. Secondarily it creates a rougher surface profile which also promotes mechanical strength and, to a small degree it adds surface area.

 

[Rockbreaker321]

The holes were about 4' above the floor and the job lead man said it was a new guy on the sander but they didn't even tell me about it when it happened. They just left and said nothing for me to find it later and call and complain.

 

[Rockbreaker321]

Owner got back with me today and said he would take an additional $500 off for us both to move on from this. Any thoughts?

 

[Zeke]

$500 will patch a lot of holes. AFA stains, well, no one knows what kind of stain it is. It may be way more than a $500 stain.

Your call, not ours.

BTW, that first pic looked plain awful. My street looks better than that.

 

[CoRestore]

I had the exact same problem with my floor as you, very rough finish, top coat seemed very thin, not very shiny. Installers were a national franchise that I thought would do a professional job but seems I was wrong. They knocked 2 holes in the drywall about 4 ft off the floor, left 2 brown stains on the fresh concrete in the driveway in a 2 ft diameter, left the fiber board uncovered where the block met the floor. They came back a week later and hand sanded the floor (they said the big sander was broken), and reapplied the top coat. This time it seems like they didnt squeegee the top coat out well, in places its very smooth and shiny like the top coat is very thick and other places its still somewhat rough and not as shiny, oh and they knocked another hole in the drywall this time bigger than the other 2 and didnt say anything about it. I sent a picture to the office manager because the owner has not returned any of my calls, she apologized and would forward to the owner. 4 days later I havent heard from anyone. The cost was 5.50/ft with half upfront so I'm sure they will call at some point wanting the rest of their money, so I am just waiting to see what they plan on doing. Everyone should research these companies and hold them accountable when they underperform and before long they will get better workmanship or go out of business. I should have done better research and I am paying for it now. Any suggestions moving forward?

Brown stains are most likely a Top coat (Polyaspartic) drip on the driveway. The fiber board should not be coated, we try and avoid coating the fiber board as its a place for failure. $5.50 is pretty cheap for a floor. Sounds like they were just careless on the install. Thats what happens when you get these big franchises in, and the owners don't do the installs themselves, or properly train there staff. Hope it all goes well for you.

 

[dieselmotorhead]

I am in the process of getting a new garage set up ( 2400 Ft2). When the building was new, concrete 1 month old ( min per vendor ) they spent 2 days grinding it, and 2 part days on the coatings. Full rejection chip coverage, swept and scraped the excess. It was a franchise called steelfloors or somesuch. No report on longevity, but looks good. Being a brand new building and I used the same color as a large project they were doing I got a good price 4.5$/ Ft2. That is about as low as it will go Oil stains, lifts, air compressors, poor concrete all challenge the coatings and also raise the price. Smaller jobs raise the price ( Mob/Demob costs) A moisture drive from under the slab will also challenge the coating. Like any painting job, the coating application is the easiest part of the job, the prep is hard part
Per the vendor and various you tube videos, concrete cleaner does not work well. It needs to be ground down to get the tooth for the primer. ( symptom is coating coming up under tires ). If the slab was not laid down with a poly vapor barrier, maybe pick a different coating, rubber mats, etc. Epoxy does not like moisture drive and will fail the coating. The poly top coat also prevents UV damage to the epoxy near the doors.
The good crews use like a near 100% solids mix, and right gallons per Ft2 to give a thick coating. A lot of kits out there are a 50% solids, with a gal/ft2 coverage that gives a coating 1/4 to 1/8 of the professionally applied coating. A gallon is 231 In3 if you net 50% you can calculate the mills you get. The kits are trying to meet a price point in a competitive field with a hazmat product to consumers- it is what it is.
The one bad part is I picked a vari-colored chip on steel grey base coat. No slip, looks beautiful. Also EXCELLENT camouflage for dropped fasteners. I have 200 Mill epoxy on the floors at work ( nuclear plant ) and with no friction coating it is slippery with just a few drops water or Boric acid crystals. So the slightly harder to clean nooks and crannies are ok with me.

 

[mellag]

After the floor was screen sanded and re-rolled with polyaspartic, the floor is closer to what I was expecting. It isn't dead smooth but it's "mostly smooth" which is what I wanted to be able to clean it.

this looks good!