Advice on Welder

[cib]

I'm in the market for a welder. 99% of my welding will be outside on moderately thick material. The material thickness will range from 1/8 up to 1/4.

I "May" in the future work with some thinner metal but at present that would not be the main use, actually rarely used for that if I had to guess.

I'm debating between stick and mig. I think stick would cover most of my needs but I'm strongly considering mig due to its flexbility.

 

[Bondo]

I'm in the market for a welder. 99% of my welding will be outside on moderately thick material. The material thickness will range from 1/8 up to 1/4.

I "May" in the future work with some thinner metal but at present that would not be the main use, actually rarely used for that if I had to guess.

I'm debating between stick and mig. I think stick would cover most of my needs but I'm strongly considering mig due to its flexbility.

Ayuh,..... I find that my ole AC/ DC buzzbox is Much more versible than my many migs...

The buzzbox will run 'bout Any kinda rod, where as the mig is limited to the few wires available for 'em, 'n the gases ya need to run many of those filler wires...

While I Love all 3 of the mig welders I've got, if I could Only have 1 welder, I'd keep the ole Buzzbox, over any of the 3 migs...

 

[readhead]

What kind of things are you building? Is there going to be a lot of "out of position" welding?

 

[cib]

What kind of things are you building? Is there going to be a lot of "out of position" welding?

Not much out of position welding. Mostly welding mild steel, on the farm work as well as building a sawmill next year and other similar projects. I've thought about a mig welder due to its ability to do thin metal is very appealing.

 

[Farmall450]

Stick all day long...less prep, no need for argon (or flux core), just change rods for different metals/positions/needs, whereas you have to buy a decent sized reel of wire...and feed it to the gun.

 

[zkling]

One thing you haven't mentioned is portability. Being on a farm will portability be a factor for you? How will you power this welder? Off of a generator or from standard shop power?

Don't forget that most quality stick welders will also run the tig process.
Depending on your application, portability and budget.

Structural (thick) & dirty work / intricate at slower speed --> Stick / Tig machine. If you want to weld aluminum, you will need AC and high frequency.HF can be added later if needed.

Long runs on medium material thickness / sheet metal body panels -->Flux core / Mig.

One thing nice about stick is that the leads are much more rugged than the wire feeders. Don't have to worry about kinking a liner or what not. Plus stick welding lead is much easier to transport, hook up, extend and repair if need be.

 

[Zeke]

Bondo, I don't call an AC/DC welder a buzz box simply because on DC it's not buzzing, it's purring. But that would be good choice for an all around welder.

I have an AC only buzz box and I do pretty well with it using the correct AC rods, some of which are 3/32nds for sheet metal.

 

[Rezeppa]

Stick welder but get a Miller Maxstar 150 there are a few different models. The Maxstar is a PORTABLE DC inverter welder. Depending on the model it can stick and TIG weld. Weighing in at right around 20$ it is extremely portable with the capabilities of running on 110 or 220 power with the simple screw on plug.

 

[HMCFab9]

If you plan on welding outside a lot, a gas shielded MIG may not be a good idea. Any breeze will blow the shielding gas away from your weld. You can get flux core for a mig, which will let you work outside.
I personally hate stick because of the slag you always have to chip off, but it does have it's places.
TIG is not a good option, i'd think, because everything seems to have to be incredibly clean to get a good weld.
Also, if you want to weld thin (sheetmetal) i'd get a MIG. Stick does not work on thin metal.

 

[Trey T]

I would say arc (stick) welder. It's just faster to stick weld, both prep process and welding.

 

[readhead]

Depending on how portable you need to be a gasoline ac/dc machine would do most of what you need to do. You would be able to stick weld with it and it would be big enough to run a mig machine also.

 

[Rezeppa]

See there are a million options the OP needs to jump in and explain his budget and give more information on what kind of specifics he is looking for because I could recommend a Thermal Arc 161,181, or 211 which is a decent MIG,TIG, and Stick welder or the new Miller Multimatic 200 which would be amazingly perfect for him due to power options, portability, and capability but it carries a price tag to match.

 

[cib]

Prefer to keep this under 700 but willing to go a bit higher. I'm a decent welder but not a welder by trade, again most of mine need to be functional welds more than pretty ones, though I'm not against pretty welds lol.

I generally prefer US built welders but willing to look at other options if the quality is there. Portable is not a concern, virtually all of my welding will be done at our shop, just again most of the stuff I weld is too large to fit in the current shop.

 

[Rezeppa]

I would look at either a AC/Dc Thunder Bolt (Made in USA) or another Miller : Hobart if COO is important. I would also consider a Thermal Arc of some sort they are import but a high quality machine. The fact they are multi-process makes them great for low budget shops. I personally for shop use have a Millermatic 211 and Maxstar 150 STL. Both of my machines run 110 220 and are some what portable. I am partial to miller machines since its all we had a work when I started out and we have some machines almost as old as I am welding great. I hope this helps you kinda. If you just want to bounce some ideas around PM me.

 

[gus1962]

In MIG welding, there's no such limit but it wouldn't work on welding bandsaw blade and some other stuff,
while Stick welding is versatile. IMO.

 

[Rezeppa]

I would look at either a AC/Dc Thunder Bolt (Made in USA) or another Miller : Hobart if COO is important. I would also consider a Thermal Arc of some sort they are import but a high quality machine. The fact they are multi-process makes them great for low budget shops. I personally for shop use have a Millermatic 211 and Maxstar 150 STL. Both of my machines run 110 220 and are some what portable. I am partial to miller machines since its all we had a work when I started out and we have some machines almost as old as I am welding great. I hope this helps you kinda. If you just want to bounce some ideas around PM me.

 

[danallen]

As most everyone else has said, SMAW is hard to beat when it comes to outside work.

 

[BD1]

Get a AC/DC miller thunderbolt and a new mig. Miller has a special on select machines that start march 1. Get the 211 and you will be set.

http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue

 

[WhoWhatNow]

If you are working mostly outside you may want to consider an engine driven stick welder. Extension cords can get expensive.

 

[Bondo]

Bondo, I don't call an AC/DC welder a buzz box simply because on DC it's not buzzing, it's purring. But that would be good choice for an all around welder.

I have an AC only buzz box and I do pretty well with it using the correct AC rods, some of which are 3/32nds for sheet metal.

Ayuh,.... True enough,....

Mine is an ole Lincoln Tombstone lookin' box,...
Old enough to have copper, not aluminum windin's...
'n it's used as DC, 99% of the time...

 

[zkling]

Can you give a few specific examples of what you plan to do with the welder?

I see you mention "Farm Work" and from my experience that means, dirty, rusty, painted machine that has broken down away from the shop. Fire up the portable welding unit and get the long stick leads. Or an irrigation pipe has broken way out there. Grab the "tig rig", a bottle of argon and the portable welding unit.

Then you mention building a saw mill. If you are using new or semi clean stock inside I would reach for the mig welder. Much more suited to welding tubing and angle that would be common in their construction.

What about material types? Do you plan on doing aluminum or stainless? You mention that some of the items you will be working on are too large to get indoors. One thing to keep in mind, is that it is MUCH easier to extend a stick welding lead than it is the same distance for a mig welding lead.

I am getting ready to sell a 50' stick extension that I purchased so I would get to the top of a grain elevator. Not really possible with a mig.

Also for your budget, I would highly recommend the used market. One of the older big Miller or Lincoln stick welders that produce a super smooth arc.

 

[cib]

Can you give a few specific examples of what you plan to do with the welder?

I see you mention "Farm Work" and from my experience that means, dirty, rusty, painted machine that has broken down away from the shop. Fire up the portable welding unit and get the long stick leads. Or an irrigation pipe has broken way out there. Grab the "tig rig", a bottle of argon and the portable welding unit.

Then you mention building a saw mill. If you are using new or semi clean stock inside I would reach for the mig welder. Much more suited to welding tubing and angle that would be common in their construction.

What about material types? Do you plan on doing aluminum or stainless? You mention that some of the items you will be working on are too large to get indoors. One thing to keep in mind, is that it is MUCH easier to extend a stick welding lead than it is the same distance for a mig welding lead.

I am getting ready to sell a 50' stick extension that I purchased so I would get to the top of a grain elevator. Not really possible with a mig.

Also for your budget, I would highly recommend the used market. One of the older big Miller or Lincoln stick welders that produce a super smooth arc.

It could be anything from welding up frames on equipment, most is 1/4" but some goes up to 3/8" steel, standard mild steel. Also general new equipment building, some equipment can easily be built for far cheaper, a plastic mulch layer for example.

I'm planning to build a portable sawmill next year, time willing.

I do basic blacksmithing work, and bladesmith as well. The welder will sometimes be used to tack weld a handle to some steel I intend to forge weld.

Most of this can be done just out front of the shop, but most can't be done in the shop due to size. I've thought about mig with fluxcore but the price of a machine to do that thickness of material is getting up there. I'd like to have the mig option but being realistic I just don't see the gas shield being as useful in the vast majority of my use since most will not be in an enclosed area and on larger stock material.

 

[readhead]

Sounds like a used ac/dc stick machine. Red, blue or brown. Should do most anything you need.

 

[zkling]

I do basic blacksmithing work, and bladesmith as well. The welder will sometimes be used to tack weld a handle to some steel I intend to forge weld.

Alright another bladesmith Do you ever wander over to the dfogg site? IMHO best site out there for bladesmithing. I have spent so much time on that forum, lots of guys with amazing talent. What style of blades do you focus on?

Back to the topic at hand....

I would try to look for an older big transformer machine. Should be in the ~$500 range. Something like one of the old miller dialarcs, A/BP, lincoln ideal arc, or the like. Premise being that you could stick weld with long leads for now with a super smooth arc. Or in the future you could add a tig torch and regulator for the tig process. The ultimate would be an older syncrowave 250 or larger.

I do general fab and repair work with a Millermatic 210 (Mig) and a Syncrowave 250 (stick and tig). The Mig is more of a luxury than a necessity. If pressed I could do everything, albet slower with the Syncrowave. Only reason I still have the mig is for sentimental reasons and we got an exceptional deal on it.

 

[sberry]

If I had to buy a new DC buzzer I would spent up for a Maxstar or a similar thermal especially if there was any chance I wanted to be away from 50A service. If I wanted cheap it would be a used DC buzzer.

 

[cib]

I post on iforgeiron mostly, I haven't had as much time the last year or so. Got married, remodeling the house, baby on the way and my father's not able to do as much work on the farm as he used to so I'm having to slowly take that over.

I generally focus on hunting knives as well as a kukri style, blades I make very well. I've tested them and they pass the bladesmith test, my handles need work, I'm mostly limited by my tools as I just don't have any woodworking tools to mention.

I'll check the site out and post there some, I've got one knife that needs a handle now.

I've got a few people interested in the sawmill, meaning me to make one for them, as well as a few other things. I make some basic farm stuff for the vegetable guys around, it is much cheaper than buying new from a major name company, about half actually.

Thanks for the information everyone.

Here is one of the first knives I made, just over 2 years ago.

Alright another bladesmith Do you ever wander over to the dfogg site? IMHO best site out there for bladesmithing. I have spent so much time on that forum, lots of guys with amazing talent. What style of blades do you focus on?

Back to the topic at hand....

I would try to look for an older big transformer machine. Should be in the ~$500 range. Something like one of the old miller dialarcs, A/BP, lincoln ideal arc, or the like. Premise being that you could stick weld with long leads for now with a super smooth arc. Or in the future you could add a tig torch and regulator for the tig process. The ultimate would be an older syncrowave 250 or larger.

I do general fab and repair work with a Millermatic 210 (Mig) and a Syncrowave 250 (stick and tig). The Mig is more of a luxury than a necessity. If pressed I could do everything, albet slower with the Syncrowave. Only reason I still have the mig is for sentimental reasons and we got an exceptional deal on it.

 

[Caterpillar Cowboy]

Just outside the shop door or out in the middle of a field? That'll narrow it to you if you want a engine drive or not. If your gonna plug in to power I'd look for a good old Lincoln Idealarc 250 that has AC and DC +/-, I like the older round / tombstone topped ones they weld good all day long. If you want engine drive, you have a lot of options. Old and big or new and smaller. Personally I like my big old Lincoln SA250 with a Perkins diesel. I just wish I had a one ton to dedicate as a welding / service truck. My dad has a newer Miller Bobcat, it does fine but I prefer my big old beast.

 

[Rezeppa]

If I had to buy a new DC buzzer I would spent up for a Maxstar or a similar thermal especially if there was any chance I wanted to be away from 50A service. If I wanted cheap it would be a used DC buzzer.

Agree! Sound advice. Extension cord is cheaper than leads. My Maxstar is from 03 and welds better than almost any 300lbs welder.

 

[sberry]

The max is good, a couple of years ago after I welded a week or 2 I pulled both machine out and ran my Linc DC buzzer side by side, same can of rods. I give a pinch of the edge to the buzzer on restarts and I really say that with some hesitation. It would be almost imperceptible without a critical eye. The max is just so good on 120V, I hardly use an engine drive anymore. My Linc is still my shop stick because its convenient but if it was a one machine choice I would likely go inverter.

 

[skyking]

Welders are like Guns! One wont do everything. Gotta have about 3 and be looking for the forth.

 

[cib]

Just outside the shop door or out in the middle of a field? That'll narrow it to you if you want a engine drive or not. If your gonna plug in to power I'd look for a good old Lincoln Idealarc 250 that has AC and DC +/-, I like the older round / tombstone topped ones they weld good all day long. If you want engine drive, you have a lot of options. Old and big or new and smaller. Personally I like my big old Lincoln SA250 with a Perkins diesel. I just wish I had a one ton to dedicate as a welding / service truck. My dad has a newer Miller Bobcat, it does fine but I prefer my big old beast.

Just outside the shop door.

 

[Caterpillar Cowboy]

If that's the case I'd seriously look into a 250 Idealarc that I mentioned above. It's been instilled in me through family, my high school shop teacher a few years ago, and other welders that one should first become proficient at stick welding before moving on to Mig. If you do end up getting a Mig down the road there will be a minimal learning curve. Not sure how big of stuff you'll be working on, or how far from your door you'll be keeping your welder, but 25 to 50 foot leads should do you good. Be a bit more upfront, few used welders come with leads (previous owners like to reuse or make damn good jumper cables) but its better to have too long vs too short. I'd go with a older round top. Back in the day in HS Ag shop we had both square and round tops, I seemed to always like using the older round tops more. You should be able to come across an AC-DC +/- for 400-750 depending on condition and if the owner knows what they have. I got mine a few years back for 650, but it came out of a union certification program so it was in good shape and low use. I'll get some photos of my setup when I go out to my shop tomorrow.