Affordable Fire Suppression?

[grawil]

Hey all,

Was browsing another forum where someone posted about fire suppression. Has anyone heard of a HAVEN fire bottle? Looks aimed at the residential market as it installs in your ceiling, and discharges an ABC retardant if the fused sensor hits 135F. Each bottle provides effective fire suppression to a 16′ x 16′ area.

http://www.havenfiresafety.com

They have a few videos with overly dramatic music.

The cost of a water sprinkler retrofit is prohibitive and my insurance guy actually advised against it due to the increased risk of flooding.

 

[Danb4563]

your insurance guy is a *****. A correctly installed sprikler system has no more chance of flooding your house than any other water system already in your home. You can purchase flush mount concealed sprinkler heads that wont be knocked off. Fire sprinkler systems have been shown to bring a house fire under control in less than one minute, and the only part of the home affected by water is the area of the fire, its not like the movies where every head goes off at the same time. What does your insurance guy think will happen when everything is covered in abc retardant? Personally, i would prefer to mop up water.

 

[Danb4563]

A residential sprinkler system is very simple. Plastic pipe, a valve in the basement, and strategically placed heads.

 

[Radix2]

your insurance guy is a *****. A correctly installed sprikler system has no more chance of flooding your house than any other water system already in your home. You can purchase flush mount concealed sprinkler heads that wont be knocked off. Fire sprinkler systems have been shown to bring a house fire under control in less than one minute, and the only part of the home affected by water is the area of the fire, its not like the movies where every head goes off at the same time. What does your insurance guy think will happen when everything is covered in abc retardant? Personally, i would prefer to mop up water.

I was talking to the county building inspector yesterday about residential systems. He said there was a test run here of 60 homes in a new development run to get experience with the technology and code review.

What they found when they went in to see how it was working out after a year, virtually all of he system were turned off. Somehow the insurance companies not only did not give the expected rate reductions to the homeowners for having the system, but told them they would face an increase for contents coverage (due to flood potential) if they did not deactivate the systems.

I would like to hear if this is some kind of an inspector wives tale or if it really happened. I also don't see the big extra potential for flooding unless the low ceilings and fragile valving are a real issue. He told th story unprompted and believes it happened....

 

[btdobie]

From a garage or Kitchen perspective I can see how this may be beneficial over a water sprinkler. If the source of the fire is oil or gas water will only make it worse. Otherwise in an in house scenario I agree with Danb4563 go with a water sprinkler it would be easier to clean up. I watched that video and was unimpressed with Haven. It looks like it can put out a christmas tree fire very well if it is mounted right over the tree, but what happens if it is in the middle of the room where it would most likely be mounted? A well designed water sprinkler system will suppress a fire no mater where in the room it is.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Product seems similar to halon on a boat. On the same idea I was thinking of putting spigots throughout the house like under vanities with 100' of that shrinky hose. Obviously this is only good if I am home.

 

[Showkey]

Lived in suburban Philadelphia a number of years back and residential fire sprinkler systems were common and code in some areas.
If I recall they were plumbed in orange PVC pipe.

 

[pmiranda]

That haven unit looks like a nifty way to slow down a fire and maybe knock down a small one completely. Since it's a dry chemical unit, there's no worry of flooding, but with a limited capacity, I wouldn't trust it to save an unoccupied structure. Still, that's what insurance is for.

What happens when a conventional water sprinkler goes off in an unoccupied structure? Do the heads keep spraying until somebody shows up to shut off the system?

 

[stimpy]

That haven unit looks like a nifty way to slow down a fire and maybe knock down a small one completely. Since it's a dry chemical unit, there's no worry of flooding, but with a limited capacity, I wouldn't trust it to save an unoccupied structure. Still, that's what insurance is for.

What happens when a conventional water sprinkler goes off in an unoccupied structure? Do the heads keep spraying until somebody shows up to shut off the system?

most of the residential units I have seen are set up like the big building ones , when there is a water pressure drop or flow in the system it sets off a alarm to the system control or fire dept . I laugh when I seen some of the requirements in some states they will not allow PVC because it melts in a fire and want metallic tubing . more like they want the price of cut and thread plumbers setting up the system .

my Insurance will give me a discount if I had a sprinkler system as I live an wood framed townehome . but it has to be inspected every year by the FD to get the discount

 

[plow]

Lived in suburban Philadelphia a number of years back and residential fire sprinkler systems were common and code in some areas.
If I recall they were plumbed in orange PVC pipe.

CPVC.


I installed the stuff for years. Mostly in residential group homes (special needs and retarded people) and day cares.

Oh. And I use it for air line in my shop.

 

[plow]

What happens when a conventional water sprinkler goes off in an unoccupied structure? Do the heads keep spraying until somebody shows up to shut off the system?

Yes. Years ago they had heads that would shut off automatically, but I don't THINK they make them anymore. I may have one around here somewhere.

 

[plow]

Hey all,

Was browsing another forum where someone posted about fire suppression. Has anyone heard of a HAVEN fire bottle? Looks aimed at the residential market as it installs in your ceiling, and discharges an ABC retardant if the fused sensor hits 135F. Each bottle provides effective fire suppression to a 16′ x 16′ area.

http://www.havenfiresafety.com

They have a few videos with overly dramatic music.

The cost of a water sprinkler retrofit is prohibitive and my insurance guy actually advised against it due to the increased risk of flooding.

The MAXIMUM ambient temp for a portable fire ext is 120* F. Not sure what the system you're talking about is rated for, but I bet its the same or close to it........... I'm assuming you're not going to mount a big ugly azzed cylinder on your ceiling. So the alternative is to mount the cylinder in the attic with the discharge nozzle protruding thru the ceiling. Like a typical sprinkler head.


How hot does it get in your attic again?

 

[plow]

most of the residential units I have seen are set up like the big building ones , when there is a water pressure drop or flow in the system it sets off a alarm to the system control or fire dept . I laugh when I seen some of the requirements in some states they will not allow PVC because it melts in a fire and want metallic tubing . more like they want the price of cut and thread plumbers setting up the system .

my Insurance will give me a discount if I had a sprinkler system as I live an wood framed townehome . but it has to be inspected every year by the FD to get the discount

I know of a guy we call Stimpy on a gun board I hang out on. Are you him?

 

[stimpy]

nope , haven't been on any firearms boards in years ...

 

[sublimate]

I used to know a Stimpy who hung out with a guy named Ren.
Are you him?

 

[plow]

Dave's not here.

 

[grawil]

Interesting thoughts guys. For me, dry chem is more appealing than water in the garage and, as I mentioned, my insurance guy talked me out of a water-based sprinkler system for a residential home in Ontario. As for mounting, modern garages are 'sealed' from the home so CO cannot enter the living space so the easiest solution would be to strap the ugly bottles to the ceiling. Or, I could build some fancy boxes around them

I already have a 135F fuse/RoR heat detector that is interconnected with the interior alarms.

 

[cdseven95]

I have a setup with the dry chemical type bottles in a commercial building...

The way the system is set up is, a cable is run around the area. The cable is tight and suspended across mounts that when they get hot drop out.

The system is terrifying to work around... I feel like one wack and I am in for a clean up / cost

The bottles are above the ceiling with a access panel

 

[tab2]

What happens when a conventional water sprinkler goes off in an unoccupied structure? Do the heads keep spraying until somebody shows up to shut off the system?

Most if not all systems are tied into the fire alarm with a flow meter so once water starts to flow the monitoring company/FD is notified.