affordable TIG welder

[StreetDreams]

Hi all, I have a question. We are looking to pick up a affordable but something that works good TIG welder. We currently only have a Hobart Handler MIG welder and my Dad wants a TIG welder in the shop, my first intention was to pick up a Hobart EZWELD TIG welder, but really we just do not have $1200 in the budget at this time for a TIG welder so I think I am just going to grab the Woodward Fab TIG180 welder, I know they are not a HUGE company, but with my being from Michigan they have alway been a pretty good company to turn to go differnt kinds of our fabrication tools and machines and they are becomming more and more popular in the industry but I have no idea how well the TIG would perform, I havnt seen much about it on the web. My other option....AND DONT LAUGH is the $299 tig welder from harbor freight, the reason I say dont laugh is because Chicago Electric is now owned by Miller, and if you go to HF and look at a open box of one of those welders you will even see the miller name on the inside of the machine so thats why I was leaning towards that machine. so basically I am going with either the Woodward Fab TIG180 or the TIG from HF. Woodward fab is around $500 and HF is around 250-350 depending on the sale, etc. Eventually as our company grows I will be able to grab a Hobart or Miller and be set, but for right now the $500 would even be pushingit for us. I know I could get a Everlast or Longeveity for 800-900 but I mean those are just as chinese as the next chinese machine and over my budget, at least Woodward Fab machines are US built and since Miller owns Chicago now I can assume at least bits and pieces of the HF machine are built in the US hehe (at least I can tell myself that)

Either way if you have any input or reviews or better yet video reviews of the HF TIG or the WF TIG180, please let me know.

Thanks
Rich

 

[WhoWhatNow]

Miller Electric does not own Chicago Electric. Chicago Electric is a name that Harbor Freight uses to market the welders, grinders, ect. that they have built to their specification by the lowest cost producer, typically in China. It is likely that some of the initial design work is handled by a third party but I have never heard of Miller Electric doing consulting work for another company.
That does not mean that HF welders are not good machines for the price and market segment they are in. That market is not the professional shop. Based on my experience with HF welders and tools in general if you are running them hard every day they will not hold up. And when the do break (everything does eventually even Miller and Lincolns) who is going to repair them and how quickly will it be done? If you are running a business there is no way you can justify buying a hobby machine. Go with an industrial unit and it will make you money.

 

[shiftdrift]

Everlast are great units. I own a 200dx.

 

[StreetDreams]

Miller Electric does not own Chicago Electric. Chicago Electric is a name that Harbor Freight uses to market the welders, grinders, ect.

Ah, ok. I was told by a friend that miller bought the company out, and when I seen the miller name on the machine I just figured it was true. Also, our company is currently focusing on working on vintage and custom motorcycles, but most the welding is currently just done with our mig welder and we do not pump out like 5 bikes a week or anything so the tig wouldn't really be used relentlessly or anything, so in that case the hf or wf tigs would be ok? Like I mention eventually we will just get the hobart eztig probably, thats why I think I will go with the hf tig, because (at least at my hf) if u buy the machine and get the added 2 year addon, you can return the machine for a 100% full refund within those 2 years, so when we do get our hobart we can just take back the one from hf hehe, and the whole 2 year add on and return thing is not just a theory lol, I've done it twice now on 2 different things, I just want to be sure the tig will do a decent job.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Stooge]

Hah, had to double check my ITW employee site to check the miller thing, figured i would have heard about that through the grapevine somewheres.
if your set on a new unit, i would avoid the HF unit, ive used one a few times at a buddy's garage and didnt like it, and wouldnt be a great first machine in my opinion. the everlast units are pretty good machines, a noticeable difference between them and the HF ones to me atleast. the eastwood machines are decent enough, not a professional unit,but for off and on use, will work.
why not just look for a used hobart, miller, lincoln or esab locally. i see like new units all the time on craigslist from people who bought a spendy new tig welder, assumedly couldnt get the hang of it and need to move it on. a domestic unit will be easier to get replacement parts for and if you go for one of the big names, shouldnt give you any problems for years even with the used machine as long as it wasnt obviously abused.
maybe hold off on buying one for the extra couple hundred dollars and get a good unit that will yield good results and make due with the mig for the time being. its no fun trying to get tig down when the machine is handicapping you. just my .2c

 

[WhoWhatNow]

I would agree with Stooge. Wait until you can afford a quality unit. I suspect in a shop you will be nothing but disappointed in the HF welder.

ITW owns Miller Electric btw.

 

[Kevin54]

there is a Miller Electric in Chicago, Illinois but they are in no way related to Miller Welding and Chicago Electric.

If you want a good welder for the money look at the Lincolns as Lowes. I have a 135 with gas hookup, and I only paid like $450 for it. And Lowes has almost all of the welding parts that you need right on the shelf


BTW....if you wouldn't mind, put your State in your profile. It may help to answer questions later on. You never know, someone may be right in the next town and selling theirs

 

[kf4zht]

If you want a cheap TIG and are ok with not being able to do Aluminum then just pick up a tig torch and DC stick welder.

Tig Torch - Found a 17 series at a pawn shop for $100 with a regulator
Stick Welder - I am currently using a HF ARC-180. It's a cheap transformer based machine, but appears to hold steady power
Argon Tank - Found on CL, but you can also lease/buy/etc from a company

You will have to scratch start, but with this setup I can reliably weld 1/8" with ease. While I don't have amperage control with my foot I have learned to control the puddle heat and size by moving the torch and adding filler to cool it down. I have also built up a stock of consumables after working with it and seeing what I needed.

I know that the pro tig welders will scoff, but in the end I have less than $300 in the whole setup and it has allowed me to learn many of the basics. When I do get a HF tig unit I already have an argon tank, a torch and enough spare nozzles, tungsten, etc that will help with that pricetag vs buying everything on its own. The welder I can throw on CL or save for my "portable" welding rig with the generator and some regular rods.

 

[Professur]

If you want a cheap TIG and are ok with not being able to do Aluminum then just pick up a tig torch and DC stick welder.

Tig Torch - Found a 17 series at a pawn shop for $100 with a regulator
Stick Welder - I am currently using a HF ARC-180. It's a cheap transformer based machine, but appears to hold steady power
Argon Tank - Found on CL, but you can also lease/buy/etc from a company

You will have to scratch start, but with this setup I can reliably weld 1/8" with ease. While I don't have amperage control with my foot I have learned to control the puddle heat and size by moving the torch and adding filler to cool it down. I have also built up a stock of consumables after working with it and seeing what I needed.

I know that the pro tig welders will scoff, but in the end I have less than $300 in the whole setup and it has allowed me to learn many of the basics. When I do get a HF tig unit I already have an argon tank, a torch and enough spare nozzles, tungsten, etc that will help with that pricetag vs buying everything on its own. The welder I can throw on CL or save for my "portable" welding rig with the generator and some regular rods.

Don't laugh at what works... and this does

 

[StreetDreams]

why not just look for a used hobart, miller, lincoln or esab locally. i see like new units all the time on craigslist from people who bought a spendy new tig welder, assumedly couldnt get the hang of it and need to move it on.

I have looked for awhile now for a nice used machine, but unfortunately haven't had any luck with that. I guess it is a good thing but also a bad thing that they hold their value so well, easy to sell, but hard to find good deals on them. Also btw I am from michigan if anyone does have a quality tig welder for under $500.

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback.
-Rich

 

[kellymc]

I went down your path, I initially bought a HF scratch start TIG for $100 one sale, that little transformer box welded well but I was limited to steel, it also gave me a chance to cheaply see if I wanted a TIG welder.

I looked everywhere for a used Synchrowave but never was able to find one, I bought the Hobart easytig - It's a great Tig welder for a hobbiest, not a lot of settings, but out of the box it make me look like a great aluminum welder...

I also purchased an inexpensive transformer machine for the High School Robotics team that I mentor, that was a big mistake, I should have bought another Hobart....

Save up your money and buy a better machine initially

 

[Rawlins87]

+1 to a Dc arc welder.
Reverse the leads
Get a torch with gas on/off valve
Get an argon bottle

Easy, cheap and reliable setup.

 

[zkling]

Where are you located? I'd keep looking on the used market.

 

[KerryH]

+1 to a Dc arc welder.
Reverse the leads
Get a torch with gas on/off valve
Get an argon bottle

Easy, cheap and reliable setup.

What are the limitations to a setup like this vs a nicer machine?

 

[brucer]

What are the limitations to a setup like this vs a nicer machine?

basically the users abilities..

Many pipe welders in the field still use the scratch-start method today..


The more expensive machines will have high frequency start and use the pedal to control amperage...


Here is a simple video showing you everything you would need. If you decide to go this route definitely get a cover for the power lug adapter..

another from chucke2009

 

[shawnspeed]

Here
is one...great welders...http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/4190215924.html

 

[brucer]

Here
is one...great welders...http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/4190215924.html

yep, if you have the input power to run it... It is AC also so you can do aluminum with it.

 

[Zeke]

TIG is not great nor easy using cobbed together equipment. HF and cheap Italian units are junk. Lift start is hard enough but scratch start is just another way to contaminate your tungsten. See if you can attend a demo somewhere and see what various machines can do. As mentioned, you could look into an Everlast. They have been at this game for many years now and have to be doing something right.

 

[shawnspeed]

yep, if you have the input power to run it... It is AC also so you can do aluminum with it.

Yep...about the same input as my syncro-250...100Amps....but I also do motorcycle work, and it is currently on a 40A breaker , and the only time I have tripped it was welding up some aluminum cases ...all the steel stuff on a bike it should handle just fine on a smaller breaker...

 

[shawnspeed]

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/tls/4165396343.html
Another....

 

[Hounddog]

I'll second the vote for finding one on Craigslist.....saw this one this morning and picked it up during lunch today. The whole rig including a 3/4 full tank....$400 bucks. Now it's well used but is still getting the job done. Lincoln Precision Tig 185

 

[Bib Overalls]

44 Bikes has a thread here but it is over 750 posts long so I am posting a link to his Flickr Photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/44bikes . Shows what you can offer your customers when you bite the bullet and use capable equipment.

 

[Rawlins87]

What are the limitations to a setup like this vs a nicer machine?

Scratch start so no high frequency (so no alum or 4130)
No foot pedal
No post flow, have to break contact to end welding.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I'll second the vote for finding one on Craigslist.....saw this one this morning and picked it up during lunch today. The whole rig including a 3/4 full tank....$400 bucks. Now it's well used but is still getting the job done. Lincoln Precision Tig 185

********! That's a hell of a score!

 

[AndyA]

The hobart ez-tig is 150amps at 20% duty cycle. That isn't going to go every far.

I'd look at Thermal Arc. The TA186 is AC/DC, 35% duty cycle at 150A (better than the ez-tig, but still limited), goes up to 200A, has HF start, has lift-arc, has finger or pedal control, has pulser, has preflow/postflow. Cost about $200 more than the ez-tig

In the same price range, Miller has the Maxstar 150. It's DC only, but has all of the nice features. It tops out a 150amps at 30%

My guestimate is you need about 60% duty cycle at your typical amperage to never notice the duty cycle limitations. Sometimes that's not even enough if you have a large piece tacked up and ready to weld.

I started out with a Miller econotig. It was 150amps at 20% duty cycle. The 20% duty cycle was highly annoying.

Since you may be doing thin material, also be aware some machines don't go *low* enough on the amperage. The econotig only went down to 30 amps. This will be too much for thin wall tubing, etc. I suspect the ez-tig will have similar problems. The Maxstar 150 spec says it welds down to 0.020" steel. It's low end range is 5 amps. The TA186 doesn't spec the material thickness, but says it goes down to 10 amps.

The Maxstar also runs on 110v. Kinda nice for portability to places without 220v.

I'd consider any of these machines too small, but you buy what you can afford. If you can, I'd try to find a machine bigger than 200 amps and duty cycles 60% or better at 150 amps.

 

[brucer]

I'll second the vote for finding one on Craigslist.....saw this one this morning and picked it up during lunch today. The whole rig including a 3/4 full tank....$400 bucks. Now it's well used but is still getting the job done. Lincoln Precision Tig 185

doesn tlook like it was used hard.. looks to be a good deal, those and the square wave 175's were good machines.. I would like to have a precision tig 225.

 

[R.Anderson]

I have an Everlast PowerPro 205 and I'm happy with it. Like most welder kits the accessories are cheap so I bought all new there, Weldcraft torches, SCS peddle(Everlast sells this its there low profile peddle USA made) and longer cables. If I had/have the money I would go with a Miller Dynasty.

With Everlast if you ask for a lower price they might give it to you I was able to get them to knock off 200 bucks.

 

[machine_punk]

These are just the questions running through my mind from the OP's post...

- What do you need TIG for that MIG isn't doing?

- Do you have anyone in your shop who knows how to TIG?

- Is this really a business, or a hobby? Either way is fine, and that is not a criticism, but if a TIG is the right answer for your business problem and is going to make you money, it seems odd that $900 for a machine is steep (could not be financed, if you have a real business need). Not to mention that you will likely need a couple hundred dollars worth of consumables (tungstens, filler wire for the metals you weld, cups, etc.)

- Would gas welding do what you want? I suspect gas welding could do what you need, and you can easily get into that for about $500, if you have the time to search for used tanks and get an old torch online and have it refurbished. Of course, if it is a business, you could rent tanks and use that as a write off. There isn't much an Oxy-Acetylene welding outfit cannot do in the welding world and it is a relatively inexpensive way to get into welding. I just want to see if there is an option which can get you where you need to be, for the amount of money you seem to have a available. I think OA welding could be that answer.

Just curious why TIG is the 'only' answer for what you are doing--and if it is the 'right' answer, why it cannot be financed, if it is going to bring you the sort of business which can pay it back.

My only experience with TIG is the small Lincoln Invertec TIG/Stick models, which were great for fusion welding sheet steel, but likely still out of your range, price-wise.

Kev

 

[vpd66]

I know a lot of people get hung up on the new style inverter welders and seem to forget about the old transformer welders. I purchased a Airco Heliarc ac/dc tig welder a few years back for around $700 shipped to my door. It came equipped with a water cooled torch and all I had to do was hook up my gas bottle to it and plug it in and start welding. It will max out at 300 amp and go down to 10 amps. This machine is the same has A Miller Dialarc so parts are easy to obtain. So don't limit yourself to new machines. There are plenty of older transformer machines out there that can be had at a decent price.

 

[er3456df]

Dude, I have the old Harbor Freight TIG, it's the size of a loaf of bread and cost $199 on sale years ago.

It's FINE. Won't do aluminum, and no pedal, but I've welded all kinds of **** with it and it WORKS. The only thing wrong with it is the manual- it's not a "scratch start", it's a "lift start". Once you know how to use it, it'll weld as well as you tell it to.

 

[littlebritishcar]

So what is the deal with the Eastwood TIG welders? I never see anybody talking about it.

 

[69supercj]

I was kind of wondering the same littlebritishcar.

 

[that-guy]

i've had my Eastwood TIG for a little over a year and i love it. the pedal isnt as nice as those from Lincoln, Miller, etc. but still produces a very nice weld, those comparable to a 30+ year navy/government welder with a Thermal Arc 300

 

[D-fens]

I learned on a Miller Dynasty and an old Syncro 250. When it got down to buying my own machine I went looking for a cheap older rig.

Trouble with that is around here people want nine prices for junk that doesn't work (mostly 70's and 80's vintage monsters from DRMO at the arsenal and maybe NASA).

Wound up with an Everlast Powertig 250EX. Chinese import machines won't kick the world's *** but their entry level DC only TIG machines are under $500. At that price its hard to justify scrounging **** together to convert a stick welder to TIG, or screwing around with lift / scratch start. I hate that ****.

 

[theoldwizard1]

For light duty, entry level, I would seriously consider a Harbor Freight Inverter Welder (DC) with a TIG conversion kit. You be welding for under $300.

I have been looking, but have not found it yet, but someone is going to figure out how to put a foot pedal on that little sucker !

 

[ibedayank]

If you want a good welder for the money look at the Lincolns as Lowes. I have a 135 with gas hookup, and I only paid like $450 for it. And Lowes has almost all of the welding parts that you need right on the shelf

So lowes sells a TIG welder? Can you post pictures of a Lincoln Tig welder sold by Lowes?

 

[shoot summ]

So lowes sells a TIG welder? Can you post pictures of a Lincoln Tig welder sold by Lowes?

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogD...gId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=lincoln+tig#!

 

[theoldwizard1]

So lowes sells a TIG welder? Can you post pictures of a Lincoln Tig welder sold by Lowes?

Lincoln Electric 120-Volt Air Cooled TIG Welder - Lowes $1,656.38

Lincoln claim 100A @ 14.0V and 100% duty cycle. I doubt that is on 120V 15A circuit. Maybe on a 20A circuit.


Makes that HF inverter DC welders with a TIG look like a steal !!

 

[Will S.]

Wonder if I can jump in here with a quick question; I am also looking for a new welder (MIG, or TIG?). I'm still using an old Craftsman stickwelder I bought in 1980.

Looking at a very clean Millermatic 180 (earlier 180 MIG with no AutoSet). No regulator, or other accy's, and he's asking 375. Is that too much for an out-of-date 180? I think there are some new machines with the regulator & hose, that can be bought for not much more.

Steer clear, or make an offer? Anyone?

 

[PugetDude]

Did a quick search for Cheap TIG welder on eBay; this was the photo on one of the listings...interesting marketing concept....