Air compressor aftercooler piping

[lalojamesliz]

I'm finishing up my compressor install and remembered I have a B&M trans cooler I bought for a car I'm building. That car is a long ways away from being done so I might as well use it for this.
The only problem I have is deciding what to use to connect the compressor outlet to the cooler because of the heat and pressure it will see.
I read temps peak at 300+ and yesterday when I aired it up to 100 psi my temp gun read 160 degrees Fahrenheit on the tube that goes from the compressor to the tank in that short time. It still needed another 75psi to automatically shut off.

I was looking at the copper tubing Home depot sells
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...r-Coil-Tubing-1-2-in-O-D-3-8-L-10RE/203654407
With some of these connections
https://www.lowes.com/pd/NIBCO-1-2-in-x-1-2-in-Copper-Threaded-Adapter-Fitting/3505126and of course I'll solder them.
The psi rating is more than high enough on the tubing. I'd love to just use air hoses but I doubt they will withstand the heat for long.
If anyone here has a aftercooler what have you used successfully to plumb your cooler?

My first big use for this compressor will be a spray on liner for my son's tacoma and I don't want water in the air supply to ruin it. I'll use a water filter right after the cooler also

 

[sberry]

Where is Kern County? There are a lot of factors, how big is the garage? Millions of people use air comps every day without every piece of additional stuff they read about on the internet. Might hook up a simple pipe manifold, stick a filter/regulator on the other end of it and see what happens

 

[lalojamesliz]

Where is Kern County? There are a lot of factors, how big is the garage? Millions of people use air comps every day without every piece of additional stuff they read about on the internet. Might hook up a simple pipe manifold, stick a filter/regulator on the other end of it and see what happens

I'm 110 miles north of Los Angeles. I ordered a regulator/filter already. A few weeks ago I was using the small blast cabinet with my 30 gallon compressor. It was the first time I've used the compressor enough to have it refill the tank that many times in one job. I had water droplets coming out of the air hose when I would disconnect the blasting gun.
Normally I fill the tank to when it shuts off, leave it for a few hours, drain the water and use it for my impact gun so i never had a water issue.
Now I have a much bigger tank and its going up to 175psi instead of the 150 for the other compressor. I already have the cooler so why not? I have to wait a few days for my regulator and rubber pads anyways.
It's just one of those things I'd like to do that will benefit a small amount of projects I have now from what I've seen. The internet never lies..... ha ha ha

 

[rayra]

I think you've made a 'type 1' error. The air heats on compression. It rapidly cools on decompression / with use. Try a full blow on your air line and measure the temp there, not on the end where it's being crammed into the tank at a metal line connected directly to a hot compressor head.

I've also never heard of doing the 'pre-pressurizing / let sit' routine you are doing.
A simple draining of the tank and the water filter should totally suffice.
Even in the south end of the San Joaquin this time of year, the humidity still isn't much

https://www.cityrating.com/cityhumidity.asp?City=Bakersfield

Winter fogs ought to be gone by now too, shouldn't they?

/in L.A. for 30yrs, ran a compressor a good bit up around Kernville for about a decade during some house remodeling, never had the sort of water spitting trouble you are describing.
Maybe you need to straighten our your air lines after your water filter is in place and blow everything clear.

 

[lalojamesliz]

I'm starting to think you guys have a point and just leaving this alone. The regulator I ordered is a Milton regulator with a nice size filter on the side. I always try to improve what I have even before I use it.
Right now it's cool/be in the garage all day weather with light rain one or twice a week. Its suppose to rain on Saturday but when is the weather forecast ever accurate

 

[lalojamesliz]

I think you've made a 'type 1' error. The air heats on compression. It rapidly cools on decompression / with use. Try a full blow on your air line and measure the temp there, not on the end where it's being crammed into the tank at a metal line connected directly to a hot compressor head.

I've also never heard of doing the 'pre-pressurizing / let sit' routine you are doing.
A simple draining of the tank and the water filter should totally suffice.
Even in the south end of the San Joaquin this time of year, the humidity still isn't much

https://www.cityrating.com/cityhumidity.asp?City=Bakersfield

Winter fogs ought to be gone by now too, shouldn't they?

/in L.A. for 30yrs, ran a compressor a good bit up around Kernville for about a decade during some house remodeling, never had the sort of water spitting trouble you are describing.
Maybe you need to straighten our your air lines after your water filter is in place and blow everything clear.

I would fill my 30 gallon compressor and the tank would be warm and if I tried to drain it a little, very little water would come out. . I would let it cool for a few hours and drain it again and some more water would come out.
The days I leave it pressurized I drain it one per day if I remember and water always comes out from the bottom even if I haven't filled it anymore. I always thought it was strange.

The hose I have on it now is just over 20 ft.
I was using a small blast cabinet and I felt like I was really pushing the compressor so that's why I stopped. That's the only time i had the water issue. Then again its just a regulator with no filter

 

[SGKent]

I use two twin cylinder devibliss made craftsman compressors in parallel. They are drained after each use. We are in a suburb of Sacramento. I use an extra 50' of line coiled on a hose hanger in case I need it and two clear poly carbonate water traps with cages over them. Usually neither has moisture in it although on occasion I will find moisture in one or both of them. Then there is a small hose end water trap designed to remove any and all residual moisture and particulates. I've not had any problems with moisture in the line since going this route, and it was not an expensive solution. I do some glass bead blasting. I also aim a fan at the compressors when it is over 85F outside because the compressors tend to heat up.

 

[sberry]

Always improving before using is a hard way to do it and somewhat assumes the people that fussed over it in design are stupid and amateurs that happen to come along on their first use know what they are doing. This isn't meant to poke you direct as it is a general observation, it would be easier to use quotes on a pc than phone. But making the assumption and determination without running the comp up to its first full cycle makes a bit of this point.

 

[Kaizen]

Always improving before using is a hard way to do it and somewhat assumes the people that fussed over it in design are stupid and amateurs that happen to come along on their first use know what they are doing. This isn't meant to poke you direct as it is a general observation, it would be easier to use quotes on a pc than phone. But making the assumption and determination without running the comp up to its first full cycle makes a bit of this point.

All compressors make water. Never found one without a drain.

Op there are many of these projects on YouTube that use a cooler between the compressor and tank. I don’t see any harm in it. I like passive systems rather then having to maintain a desiccant or spend thousands on a large refrigerated drier. For any kind of paint work you can’t have enough filtration and drying


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[Firstram]

Always improving before using is a hard way to do it and somewhat assumes the people that fussed over it in design are stupid and amateurs that happen to come along on their first use know what they are doing.

Aftercoolers are factory options when you step up to larger compressors, they work. In my case it was a $250 option so I chose to spend a little more and build something a little nicer.

I used a Hayden 1299 dual pass oil cooler with a 600 cfm 230 volt fan. The cooler is fully shrouded and set up to accept a 2nd fan if needed. A local hose place made teflon lined SS hoses designed to handle the heat and vibration. I made a cyclonic separator (similar to a dust collector) that collects the water before it reaches the tank.

This setup lowers the temperature down to just above ambient, which will condense most of the water out of compressed air.

 

[Kaizen]

Aftercoolers are factory options when you step up to larger compressors, they work. In my case it was a $250 option so I chose to spend a little more and build something a little nicer.



I used a Hayden 1299 dual pass oil cooler with a 600 cfm 230 volt fan. The cooler is fully shrouded and set up to accept a 2nd fan if needed. A local hose place made teflon lined SS hoses designed to handle the heat and vibration. I made a cyclonic separator (similar to a dust collector) that collects the water before it reaches the tank.



This setup lowers the temperature down to just above ambient, which will condense most of the water out of compressed air.

How did you do the cyclone? Never seen anything like that in a compressor


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[sberry]

I am not saying not to improve it but hook the thing up first, let it run a cycle and shut off. Guy aint used it for 10 minutes yet.

 

[Firstram]

How did you do the cyclone? ]

Basically it's a 4" dust collector 12" long. Damp air enters tangentially at the top thru a 3/4" pipe and swirls around the exterior of the body. The outlet is 2" diameter, air slows down to make the turn and exits roughly 85% slower than it entered. The heavy droplets stay behind.

It's not perfect but it catches 90%. I built it for free with drops from work, V2.0 will be better.

 

[firebirdparts]

Getting back to the original idea, the trans cooler may be a very good option, but you'll certainly need a fan. I have an ordinary 5 hp compressor running with a ford a/c condenser as an outlet cooler, and it needs a fan to actually cool. The condenser is I guess 5 times the size of an oil cooler.

Ford used 1/2" tubing in their condenser, so you can cut the ends off and use compression fitting on it.

 

[Firstram]

OP, sorry for the hijack. Dry air is worth the effort however you get there.

 

[oldmachinenut]

This is the aftercooler I built for my Quincy 325 rebuild. It is a Lang/B&M stacked plate super-cooler mounted on the belt guard in front of the flywheel/fan. It is connected with Parker mil-surplus teflon/stainless 12an lines(ebay) running through a Norgren water separater before the air enters the tank. This setup far exceeded my expectations by trapping a huge amount of water in the bowl on the Norgren. It also cools the air from very hot to ambient. I have a timed auto-drain and a redundant/back-up ball valve drain on the tank and have not even seen a drop of water come from the tank.

Bill

 

[AllThingsOld]

I used shark bite fittings on mine and it works great. The actual aftercooler is an a/c evaporator meant for a Ford Mustang.

 

[lalojamesliz]

This is the aftercooler I built for my Quincy 325 rebuild. It is a Lang/B&M stacked plate super-cooler mounted on the belt guard in front of the flywheel/fan. It is connected with Parker mil-surplus teflon/stainless 12an lines(ebay) running through a Norgren water separater before the air enters the tank. This setup far exceeded my expectations by trapping a huge amount of water in the bowl on the Norgren. It also cools the air from very hot to ambient. I have a timed auto-drain and a redundant/back-up ball valve drain on the tank and have not even seen a drop of water come from the tank.

Bill

Very nice

 

[lalojamesliz]

I used shark bite fittings on mine and it works great. The actual aftercooler is an a/c evaporator meant for a Ford Mustang.

You used these from the compressor to the cooler?

 

[larry4406]

This is the aftercooler I built for my Quincy 325 rebuild. It is a Lang/B&M stacked plate super-cooler mounted on the belt guard in front of the flywheel/fan. It is connected with Parker mil-surplus teflon/stainless 12an lines(ebay) running through a Norgren water separater before the air enters the tank. This setup far exceeded my expectations by trapping a huge amount of water in the bowl on the Norgren. It also cools the air from very hot to ambient. I have a timed auto-drain and a redundant/back-up ball valve drain on the tank and have not even seen a drop of water come from the tank.

Bill

Very nice

Agreed! Very nice job Bill!

 

[1redTA]

I used hydraulic hose

 

[oldmachinenut]

Agreed! Very nice job Bill!

Thank you both!

 

[AllThingsOld]

You used these from the compressor to the cooler?

I used a compression fitting coming out of the pump. From the line out of the pump, to the after cooler inlet pipe , I used a shark bite fitting. On the outlet side of the aftercooler pipe, is a shark bite fitting to an auto drain. Auto drain outlet to to the compression fitting in the tank. Works great and pulls a ton of water out.

 

[HotrodHR]

This is the aftercooler I built for my Quincy 325 rebuild. It is a Lang/B&M stacked plate super-cooler mounted on the belt guard in front of the flywheel/fan. It is connected with Parker mil-surplus teflon/stainless 12an lines(ebay) running through a Norgren water separater before the air enters the tank. This setup far exceeded my expectations by trapping a huge amount of water in the bowl on the Norgren. It also cools the air from very hot to ambient. I have a timed auto-drain and a redundant/back-up ball valve drain on the tank and have not even seen a drop of water come from the tank.

Bill

Interesting setup. Where does the air exit the tank into your lines?

 

[BruceMc]

I'm finishing up my compressor install and remembered I have a B&M trans cooler I bought for a car I'm building. That car is a long ways away from being done so I might as well use it for this.
The only problem I have is deciding what to use to connect the compressor outlet to the cooler because of the heat and pressure it will see.
I read temps peak at 300+ and yesterday when I aired it up to 100 psi my temp gun read 160 degrees Fahrenheit on the tube that goes from the compressor to the tank in that short time. It still needed another 75psi to automatically shut off.

I'm not so sure there is any real advantage to plumbing a small cooler in between the pump and tank. I installed mine at the tank outlet, letting the tank with it's much bigger surface area do the brunt of the initial cooling at those high temperatures (as it was designed to). I installed drops on each side of the cooler to drain, but realistically there is hardly ever any moisture there. I was going to pair up a fan with the aftercooler, but after taking the FLIR to it, I don't see it as much of a problem. Ambient temperature with these images was probably around 60F. This is after letting the compressor run for a fair bit.

 

[sberry]

My comp has finned pipe between stages.

 

[oldmachinenut]

Interesting setup. Where does the air exit the tank into your lines?

It exits on the other side of the tank

 

[LS6 Tommy]

This is the aftercooler I built for my Quincy 325 rebuild. It is a Lang/B&M stacked plate super-cooler mounted on the belt guard in front of the flywheel/fan. It is connected with Parker mil-surplus teflon/stainless 12an lines(ebay) running through a Norgren water separater before the air enters the tank. This setup far exceeded my expectations by trapping a huge amount of water in the bowl on the Norgren. It also cools the air from very hot to ambient. I have a timed auto-drain and a redundant/back-up ball valve drain on the tank and have not even seen a drop of water come from the tank.

Bill

Very nice setup! When (not if) my old freebie Craftsman 5.5/30 oil free compressor goes, I want to get a belt drive, pressure lubed unit like yours and do a similar cooler/dehydrator setup.

Tommy

 

[didit]

I have posted this before, might be worth repeating.
Concentrate on making sure the oil & water does not remain accumulated in the tank and any further efforts need to be directed downstream.
Last summer I took the time to run new copper line from the air compressor. The compressor is outside the garage in an insulated, sound reducing enclosure, on the shaded north side. The tank has a self draining valve for removing water. It just drains into a pan. I used a length of rubber through the wall of the garage to eliminate any vibrational effects.
I do a lot of sand/abrasive blasting in an outside structure and do all my own painting. These pictures will illustrate how I achieved zero moisture in two separate airlines. One line has a filter, automatic oiler. regulator combo and is water free for air tools, the other is oil free and moisture free using a Motor Guard Submicronic Filtration Unit, desiccant water separator and a regulator.
In Canada we have available, the higher priced 'type L' 3/4" copper which is a lot heavier. There are 4 upright runs with water traps at the bottom. I have not gotten so much as a drop past the second upright. This was built on the bench and then put in place. A lot of soldering that took a few hours to complete but well worth the cost and effort.
There is nothing worse than having a spray gun spit out water or clog blasting equipment with moisture. This solved that problem.
There are "many ways to skin a cat" and this is just how I did it. Works great!

 

[sberry]

I started out with some oiling in mind. I got away from it. I put a drop in my DA once in a while. I aint as religious as I used to be but the stuff still works and got **** all over so don't use luber. A fussy guy could. In production would.

 

[sberry]

Very nice setup! When (not if) my old freebie Craftsman 5.5/30 oil free compressor goes, I want to get a belt drive, pressure lubed unit like yours and do a similar cooler/dehydrator setup.

Tommy

You wouldn't wear out a non lubed unit in your lifetime. I actually use a 3 as the master and have 200 gallon tanks, I do have a 5 demand/backup unit but have the breaker off. I just don't need it. I was sanding out a large paint job a while back, took a couple days off and on, was tempted to turn it on but had to wait all of 10 minutes.
I got some of what I got cause I got it, some cheap. But if I was a one shot deal and Joe Suburb hobby garage would aspire to 5 hp 2 stage air comp with 80 gallon tank. Sand and or wire wheel and sanding really,,, 5 will keep up and do as much work as a man can really do. Run a 6 inch DA steady and a 7 inch sander quite well, adequate.
You can sand and paint a car or truck with less but it takes fussy management, its pretty easy with 5 to go about the happy way.

 

[sberry]

That guy on American Restoration could double up the sandblast power. Should scavenge up another pump or comp unit to come on when he bids work. If you are paying guys by the hour a boost in the equipment can return easy. I see a couple times guys wanna do complicated setups with limited electric, all that stuff and would have been easier to buy another unit.

 

[lalojamesliz]

Very nice setup! When (not if) my old freebie Craftsman 5.5/30 oil free compressor goes, I want to get a belt drive, pressure lubed unit like yours and do a similar cooler/dehydrator setup.

Tommy

I was waiting for my 30 gallon craftsman to go out also but that thing just keeps going. Just very loudly!

 

[sberry]

Something better is certainly a worthy upgrade. Air power can be a fundamental utility, it's not really cheap but gets a lot of work done fast when time is valuable. Battery has reduced a lot of demand with tools, it's good, lots cheaper.

 

[lalojamesliz]

I have just wanted to upgrade to a quieter unit. That's about 75% of the reason why I wanted to upgrade to be honest. Now I just have to try to improve whats a huge (literally ) upgrade
I'm going to try to lay that spray on liner with the compressor the way it is and with my Milton reg/filter and continue the small sandblasting job I started.
Later when I try to paint then I'll definitely add a cooler and whatnot.
I still haven't fired up my compressor past 100psi
I noticed the headgaskets were leaking and I just finished replacing the gaskets earlier today. All that's left is to torque the head bolts to 55 ftlbs. I had no idea on how much torque but I saw a thread with a guy rebuilding a similar compressor and that's what he said he torqued his to so I'm going to try that..
I also received the hose im going to use from the tanks outlet to the regulator/filter earlier today. I'm all set for now besides tightening down the head bolts. I'm using a 1/2" hydraulic hose i got on Amazon it's rated to 3500psi so my measly 175 psi should be fine.

 

[Doug1]

Aftercoolers are factory options when you step up to larger compressors, they work. In my case it was a $250 option so I chose to spend a little more and build something a little nicer.

I used a Hayden 1299 dual pass oil cooler with a 600 cfm 230 volt fan. The cooler is fully shrouded and set up to accept a 2nd fan if needed. A local hose place made teflon lined SS hoses designed to handle the heat and vibration. I made a cyclonic separator (similar to a dust collector) that collects the water before it reaches the tank.

This setup lowers the temperature down to just above ambient, which will condense most of the water out of compressed air.

Could you give us some more information on the parts you used and the best place to get them. I really like this setup.

 

[Firstram]

Thanks.
The Hayden 1299 came from amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HEADLK/?tag=atomicindus08-20
It's expensive and overkill but the configuration worked best for my compressor cage. I needed the in and out to point straight up and down. This also gave me horizontal tubes with vertical fins which should give better cooling.

The fan came from Grainger.
https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Standard-Round-Axial-Fan-3VU67
McMaster has a similar fan (1976K99) much cheaper. Grainger was next to the shop and we were placing an order that day anyway.
Search Ebay for 230 volt fans and you could save a few bucks.

I used a pressure relieving check valve on the inlet of the cooler, McMaster 2697N14
The factory valve wouldn't fit on the cooler and I don't want to drain the whole system on each cycle. It's a stand alone valve (no copper tubing) that needs 15cfm to open and it dumps the cylinder pressure when the air stops flowing.
The 1/2" valve (2697N13) only needs 8cfm to operate.

The hose and JIC fittings all came from a local hydraulic shop.

I've been off work since mid March due to the Plandemic, and all of my tools are in storage. In my time off I've found some great deals on Ebay for air filtration. I will be adding an Exair water separator and a Festo 1 micron coalescing filter after the cooler before the tank. I also found a Festo separator/regulator for the tank outlet. All 3 filters are self draining.

I'm looking forward to finishing up this project, I may even paint the cage. I hope this helps and would love to see what you come up with.

 

[nadogail]

Thanks everybody for posting. Each of you, in your own ways have added to the store of knowledge incorporated in this forum.

I will stop waiting for my Oil less, 20 gallon Devilbis (sp?) to wear out and require replacement. I blow the water out of the tank every time I remember to do so, moving the tank drain from under the vertical tank is one of the most intelligent things I have done lately.

 

[screamindemon]

Hey guys, New here. I am thinking of building a similar setup. Can you explain what you did on the bottom of the drains to catch the water.
Thanks

I have posted this before, might be worth repeating.
Concentrate on making sure the oil & water does not remain accumulated in the tank and any further efforts need to be directed downstream.
Last summer I took the time to run new copper line from the air compressor. The compressor is outside the garage in an insulated, sound reducing enclosure, on the shaded north side. The tank has a self draining valve for removing water. It just drains into a pan. I used a length of rubber through the wall of the garage to eliminate any vibrational effects.
I do a lot of sand/abrasive blasting in an outside structure and do all my own painting. These pictures will illustrate how I achieved zero moisture in two separate airlines. One line has a filter, automatic oiler. regulator combo and is water free for air tools, the other is oil free and moisture free using a Motor Guard Submicronic Filtration Unit, desiccant water separator and a regulator.
In Canada we have available, the higher priced 'type L' 3/4" copper which is a lot heavier. There are 4 upright runs with water traps at the bottom. I have not gotten so much as a drop past the second upright. This was built on the bench and then put in place. A lot of soldering that took a few hours to complete but well worth the cost and effort.
There is nothing worse than having a spray gun spit out water or clog blasting equipment with moisture. This solved that problem.
There are "many ways to skin a cat" and this is just how I did it. Works great!

 

[BMEP]

I put a B&M transmission cooler on my 5 HP compressor. The air coming out is WAY cooler. I've never measured it, but you can tough the exit line, not so for the inlet. As you can see in the pics, it exits right to an air/water separator. This is also setup to drain on every cycle (that plumbing wasn't in place in these photos). The water separator has water in it after every run. Since adding this, I've never gotten any water out of the tank drain when I open it. I figured the cooling fan for the compressor would move enough air and it seems to work well.

I didn't want the line hanging off the cooler so the steel frame has supports. I hose-clamped the lines to the steel supports. This was in 2012, no problems since.