Air Compressor Help

[didithepest]

Hello Garage Journal,

I am a new home owner and now have the room to make all my childhood dreams come true. In August 2016 I purchased a house with a detached 20x40 Garage that i want to convert into the ultimate man cave. Two week after i purchased the house I received orders to deployed over seas. I am now getting ready to return back home and start on building this dream garage. I will be installing a 2 post lift from Bendpak and will need a good compressor to be able to run what ever Air tools i may need.

The problems is I have never owned an Air compressor and will like some feedback in what direction I should take. I am looking at something that is Stationary and no more than 60 gallons. I am probably going to be running one or two tool at a time if I have friends over. I will eventually used the garage as a wood shop/hobby shop and will like something that can handle any task. I just want something that will last and be sufficient once my level of usage increase for hopefully under 1000 dollars

I have checked several Air Compressor from Northentool.com

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_211720_211720

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641297_200641297

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641298_200641298

 

[RECox286]

Northern is a good to better source to look for what you want.

Depending on what you expect to do with an air system, I would

recommend you to think in terms of "bigger is better" and plan

to buy, now instead of later, the biggest you can afford, even if

you would have to stretch a bit to do it. Later you will be saying

"I'm sure glad I listened to good ol' uncle Bob." B/c, if you don't, you

will be doing the one legged "kick yourself in the ****" dance later on

when you want to do some sanding with a D/A handheld, or you want

to sandblast, or the _________ (insert tool name) runs your system

out of air b/c you winced at the price tag. Once the system is in place,

remember to do the day to day maintenace like it was your brand new

classic 56 Chevy. If you can determine where the machine is made,

"Made in USA" actually does mean a (usually) better longer lasting

product. There you have the basics... I'm sure that others will chime

in with their opinions, toot-sweet.

Uncle Bob

 

[didithepest]

thank you bob for the reply. I have many friends that are mechanics, work with wood and body work. I want to be able to have the proper equipment so if they ever come over to help me with a project/ or need to work on cars I have the proper setup that can feed the tools without braking the bank

 

[Duker]

First, thank you for your service and welcome home! As for compressors, if you going to to run air sanders, etc then you want a bigger tank. I run a Snap On (Champion Made) 5 horse 80 gallon tank for my Sioux and Dynabrade sanders and it still kicks on more than I like. This is one area where bigger really is better. I am a fan of the Champion two stage compressors.


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[didithepest]

thank you Duker for your support - I am trying to stay with in a budget of under 1000 dollars - but will spend the extra dollar for something better - does anyone has a particular model they recommend and Why

 

[md21722]

Many people who use a lot of air upgrade until they end up with something similar to a 7.5 HP 80 gallon with after cooler. If friends are over, running air hungry air tools at the same time as you, you may need two of them. This would be like one is sandblasting while the other is running a D/A sander, D/A sander and die grinder, etc. These cost around $2,750 each for IR. Champions/Saylor Bealls will cost more than that.

Within your budget, the HF 5 HP 60 gallon is not bad for the price. They are noisy. If its not enough air you can buy a second one, or a third, later on haha...

Also consider used on Craigslist and don't underestimate the value of a larger tank.

 

[didithepest]

what you guys think about
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-compressors/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html

 

[bob15]

Have you considered looking for an older used compressor on C-list? I found an older IR Model 253 compressor for $300.

 

[didithepest]

Honestly just been looking at new ones - I know I can land a good deal on a use one - But I don't know what to look for

 

[RECox286]

Don't give a cold shoulder to a good name used compressor. Most of

mine have come either as a hand-me-down, from a used sale, or off the

curb ! I have even made my own from parts. If you are handy,

used can be a really good deal. Not so handy, stick with new

from Northern. You should be looking at 3 to 5 hp slow running

machines b/c they will be easier on the ears in a closed shop while

providing any where from 8 to 15 cu/ft of air @ 90 psi gauge per min.

Remember I said "bigger is better."

Uncle Bob

 

[md21722]

The Northern Tool units linked in the first post are all single stage. This is suboptimal for shop air tools. The HF is a dual stage which is superior for air tools. The biggest problem with the HF is that its going to be noisy & has a small tank.

The expensive units that cost $2500-3000 are much larger & slower running. They will be quieter & generally have an after cooler to help with moisture. If you are really going to be using a lot of air, with sandblasting, D/A standers, lots of use of die grinders, you are going to want a 7.5 HP air compressor. Here is a Champion Centurion II:

https://www.pacificaircompressors.c...e-80gal-vertical-champion-air-compressor-new/

It's a bit more than the IR 2475N-7.5 that you can get at Northern, but is a better compressor. This isn't even the best compressor Champion makes. This pump runs at 575 RPM, about half what the HF unit runs at.

If you want the ultimate man cave, ideally you'd even get it with a 120 gallon tank!

If you are only using impacts and smaller stuff like that, you can go a lot smaller, like the HF 5HP dual stage.

 

[smuro04]

what you guys think about

http://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...n-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html

If you are going to buy the Central Pneumatic 60 gal, be sure to get that specific item number (93274). It is the only one worth buying. The other model is a three cylinder and not a true dual stage from what I remember.

Best bang for the buck compressor out there besides a good used name brand. I'll be buying the 93247 once funds permit.

 

[Rounder]

I have smaller ones that I have picked up used along the way. I would like something big someday to run painters and sand blasters.

I have been thinking about the 80 gallon two stage cast iron ones you see at most plaes for around $850.

I want something with a belt and oil that can be changed, as opposed to sealed bearings. Quiter I am told, but also built to last.



I have thought about used, you can buy all the parts indvidual to replace if need be. Such as adding a dryer and regulator. But understand getting home and want to set up you shop. I get like this too. You get tired of looking through ads. Some guys make a hobby out of it and find good stuff though.

Speaking from my bowels, for $1000 range, I'd get two stage 80 gallon compressor, then get some good milton fittings. I am going with Milton/Industrial, because they fit my stuff. There are a few different connector types. Goodyear is American made hose, flexible.

Buy some extra connectors and fittings, so you have them.

A hose reel would be nice, but I might make that future buy as you go.

Also will need a 240 volt recepticle. I put in 30 amp sub panel, but my current compressor is only using 20. If you have to pull wire or pay someone, I would go atleast 30.

 

[RECox286]

All good advise...lots of points to ponder..."bigger is better."

Uncle Bob (fading fast)

 

[CGT80]

Many people who use a lot of air upgrade until they end up with something similar to a 7.5 HP 80 gallon with after cooler.

If you want the ultimate man cave, ideally you'd even get it with a 120 gallon tank!

If you are only using impacts and smaller stuff like that, you can go a lot smaller, like the HF 5HP dual stage.

You guys nailed me on that one.

3hp 10 cfm 60 gallon single stage *****, but that is what I picked up for free and was happy to have for a while.

5hp 80 gallon two stage 17.2 @ 175 and calculated to an actual 20 cfm at 800 rpm is damn nice. At 500 rpm it would have run on a 3hp motor and it was really quiet, but it wasn't enough air and it already had the 5hp motor. Big and slow is the way to go. Mine lives outside, so it is very quiet in the garage when it runs and it has a nice chug when running outside.

The tank needs replaced and having an 80 gallon tank allows me to run a die grinder for quite a few minutes without the compressor coming on. It is nice when I work late and want to work inside and not irritate the neighbors. This machine works great for a blast cabinet and gives me plenty of air........for now.

Since I am looking at buying a new tank, I am convinced 120 gallons is the smart choice. The compressor will run less often, I can work longer late at night, and the refill time will only go up by 30 seconds or so over the 80 gallon. The size isn't that much bigger, and I am staying with a horizontal unit.

A 5hp 60 gallon 2 stage would be good to start out, if you are on a tight budget, and then keep an eye out for a bigger unit.

 

[didithepest]

The help on the forum been great. The more people that chime in the more my wallet is starting to hurt really bad


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[Duker]

The help on the forum been great. The more people that chime in the more my wallet is starting to hurt really bad


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Shoot by tomorrow you will have a 30HP rotary screw compressor with a drier and desiccant manifold and wonder how you ever lived without it.....


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[md21722]

Since I am looking at buying a new tank, I am convinced 120 gallons is the smart choice. The compressor will run less often, I can work longer late at night, and the refill time will only go up by 30 seconds or so over the 80 gallon.

5 HP / 120 gallon works out OK. I have 7.5 HP effective on 240 gallons and its great.

 

[didithepest]

With all that said. Anyone has recommendation , let see what you guys recommend . I live close to a tractor supply, hf, sears , homedepot.


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[Duker]

With all that said. Anyone has recommendation , let see what you guys recommend . I live close to a tractor supply, hf, sears , homedepot.


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Well, it will blow your budget but it is available from a big box store.... something like this maybe....

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EMAX-Ind...seiZOV6NWsbTuWdkxGmt-xoC5vfw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

However, I would as others suggested shop for a good used machine. I bought my unit used and i have had over 10 years and besides oil changes and filters (and draining regularly) it runs like a champ...pun intended.


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[didithepest]

Well, it will blow your budget but it is available from a big box store.... something like this maybe....

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EMAX-Ind...seiZOV6NWsbTuWdkxGmt-xoC5vfw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

However, I would as others suggested shop for a good used machine. I bought my unit used and i have had over 10 years and besides oil changes and filters (and draining regularly) it runs like a champ...pun intended.


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Holy crampola, yeah way out of my budget. Let say max 1200 for now and that a lot


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[didithepest]

What about this one.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005#


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[Duker]

I can't see where you are located but a quick scan of Craigslist turned this up in my neck of the woods....

https://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/tls/6025737619.html

And there were others so with a little patience you could score a nice setup. That type of deal I would take all day long versus a HD or HF equivalent.


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[blsnelling]

I have this unit. I bought it quite a few years old with a new Baldor motor. Find a used one and save tons of money.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-2340n5-v-230v-1ph-two-stage-compressor-80-gal

 

[md21722]

What about this one.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ingersoll-rand-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal?cm_vc=-10005#


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In post #1 you wanted something that would handle any task & having friends over also running tools. That's why we're quoting you compressors that cost close $3,000. There is no benefit to the IR over the 5 HP unit from Harbor Freight which is made by ABAC, same as NAPA, CP, & Bel Air in this price range. If buying something from HF doesn't jive you with, look to NAPA, CP, & Bel Air. They are all assembled in the same factory in Fort Mill, SC. IR makes fine stuff at higher price ranges, but I see no reason to pay more for the IR brand for an entry level stationary compressor.

 

[md21722]

If you are in the Hudson Valley,

https://albany.craigslist.org/tls/6001142111.html

Things like this are what you should be looking at if you want a big fat compressor & don't want to pay a lot for it. You will need to change out the motor to a single phase.

 

[didithepest]

If you are in the Hudson Valley,

https://albany.craigslist.org/tls/6001142111.html

Things like this are what you should be looking at if you want a big fat compressor & don't want to pay a lot for it. You will need to change out the motor to a single phase.

That look like a really good deal. Why would I have to change the motor to a single phase ?


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[Citation]

Just a question... what all do you include in that $1000? $1000 will buy a low end 80 gallon, ~5hp compressor. It might be a two stage or could be just single. However, if you go for an installed setup have you considered the rest of the installation and the associated costs?

At minimum you need a regulator then some large ID hose. At that point you have a single source of air in the shop and you have to drag a hose everywhere. Not really a great setup and odds are if you want an 80 gallon tank you probably want to run air pipes as well. Now you need to figure out where to run lines and to put drops (near tools that will need air, near where you might work on a car, near where you might air up tires, where would you want a blow gun etc). Depending on your needs an installed system could run quite a bit.

What is the wiring like in the shop and are you including that in your cost? Can you DIY or will you have to hire it out? I'm sure some of the electricians around here will say don't run a compressor (or any large electric motor) via a 240V wall outlet. They really should be hard wired. Depending on your circumstances that could be yet more money.

I'm not mentioning the above to discourage you but only because it's important to think about the entire installation when you go down the installed system path.

I have a bit of trouble deciding what to suggest given the $1k price cap. If sand blasting is in your future you really are going to want high flow pump. A 10 CFM pump + 60 gallon tank would probably be marginal for a smaller blast cabinet. However, cost wise that's a $500 compressor which leaves a lot of money for the rest of the system. $1k doesn't buy much in the 80 gallon, ~5hp range. The upside is you probably aren't going to be a heavy user so you likely don't need to get something like a Champion $2500 compressor. I suspect part of where the low dollar compressors get a bad rap is shops/people who are going to use them 8 hours a day, 5 days a week over work the things resulting in a failure. But as a one man shop you will probably be fine*.

I guess my real advice would be plan for the future but don't buy it yet unless you get a deal on a used compressor. Even if you do it on the cheap I would expect to spend $200 for minimal air lines and a single regulator for the shop.
1, If you find a deal on a 60 gallon, 3hp the you could try it for a while. If you decide it's not enough you have two upgrade paths. The first is to sell and replace with a large 80 gallon. You will have the advantage that you can buy when you find a deal so the upgrade cost might be no more than the cost difference between a new 3hp and new 5hp compressor.
2, You could also consider adding a second 3hp, 60 gallon compressor. So long as the pressure switches are set to cut in at slightly different pressures you shouldn't have issues with starting two 3hp motors at the same time (you can also get relay systems to deal with this). Now you will have ~20 cfm and 120 gallons of tank. You just need to plan the space up front. The compressors don't need to be near each other since they can both tap into the air lines.
3, Start off with a low buck $80 gallon compressor (about 14 CFM at 90 psi). It will probably be a single stage running up to about 140 psi. You will almost certainly exceed your budget once you add air lines and drops.
4, You could just work with a 120V mobile compressor for a while to decide if you need to invest. This ONLY works if you really aren't going to use much beyond an impact wrench. However, this option again might give you a chance to see if you are really going to use that much air. Down side is the upgrade path is basically sell all and start over.

I would probably pick option #1/#2. Spend ~$500 on the compressor (try to locate it where the noise doesn't dump into the shop) and see if it's enough air. If not I would probably look for a deal on a second 60 gallon (new or used) as well as a deal on an 80 gallon, 5hp (new or used). Once a deal comes up decide if you would rather have two compressors or one.

Sorry, long winded post.

*My father used to have a shop with several people working for him. At the time he had what I believe was a Champion, 5hp compressor with a pressure lubed pump. When he closed down the shop that compressor went and he was using a small compressor until recently. We recently were able to score an 80 gallon, 2 stage 4hp Husky (Campbell Hausefeld) for free + repairs. Dad says that compressor kicks on perhaps twice a day when he uses his air drills and grinders. It won't keep up with his sand blaster without the occasional pause. His usage back in the day would kill the ~$1k compressors but currently even though the sand blaster can outrun the compressor, most of the time the compressor runs just 10 times a week if that.

 

[md21722]

That look like a really good deal. Why would I have to change the motor to a single phase ?


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Do you have 3 phase power in your shop?

 

[md21722]

The problem with most single stage compressors is they have ridiculously low cut in and cut out pressures. Cut in at 90 psi, cut off at 125-135 psi. Try to run an air ratchet or impact off a 50' hose with a swivel, you are going to be at 50 psi at the tool before it cuts on and wonder why your air tools are anemic... even if you don't have a regulator at all.

The problem is really in perception. Big box stores sell these 3 HP 60 gallon single stage units for $449 that are bright red and look way better and far more impressive than the 20 gallon Sears your Dad used growing up to fill up the family car tires. The problem with them is they still don't cut the mustard for any real use.

Generally for "any task" its 7.5 HP per person unless you are in a shipyard, running a hard rock drill, jack hammer, etc.

It would help to understand what you see yourself using this for in the next year, two years, 5 years type of thing.

But Citation does bring up a good point, there is a lot more to an air compressor than just buying one and wiring it up.

 

[didithepest]

Citation. I took everything into consideration hence why my budget was 1200. But after taking you guys advise , I search the Craigslist adds near and around the driving distance and found what I believe are really good deal for commercial application. I guess my next thread will be - need help onto what to look for in used compressor. The best advise Is to look for a used one that will meet my future demand without breaking the bank.


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[didithepest]

Do you have 3 phase power in your shop?

Not at the shop. I guess that is the reason.


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[dnschmidt]

With air compressors GO BIG OR GO HOME. Now this will probably start a ******* contest but it's the truth. Particularly if you use die grinders, any kind of sandblaster or SATA HVLP spray guns when attempting to do a complete car. Buy BIG buy it once and if you go for a good brand like Champion or Saylor-Beal it will outlast you. The truth hurts but this is the truth.

 

[md21722]

With air compressors GO BIG OR GO HOME. Now this will probably start a ******* contest but it's the truth. Particularly if you use die grinders, any kind of sandblaster or SATA HVLP spray guns when attempting to do a complete car. Buy BIG buy it once and if you go for a good brand like Champion or Saylor-Beal it will outlast you. The truth hurts but this is the truth.

Won't start a ******* contest with me. Just the guys who painted an entire car with a 2 hp 20 gallon unit and say it was a great experience. ;-)

 

[Citation]

With air compressors GO BIG OR GO HOME. Now this will probably start a ******* contest but it's the truth. Particularly if you use die grinders, any kind of sandblaster or SATA HVLP spray guns when attempting to do a complete car. Buy BIG buy it once and if you go for a good brand like Champion or Saylor-Beal it will outlast you. The truth hurts but this is the truth.

That makes sense when budgets are also more than $1200. When budgets are fixed sometimes such statements aren't as useful. Also, as my aside story illustrates, if you aren't really going to use it you don't really need it.

 

[RECox286]

Oops ! my bad...

 

[CGT80]

If you are in the Hudson Valley,

https://albany.craigslist.org/tls/6001142111.html

Things like this are what you should be looking at if you want a big fat compressor & don't want to pay a lot for it. You will need to change out the motor to a single phase.

Wow, I would be all over that compressor, for that price.

26 cfm at 175 psi, with a 7.5hp motor spinning the pump at 1100rpm
19 cfm at 175 psi, with a 5hp motor spinning the pump at 800 rpm.

Mine is the 400 pump at 800 rpm on a 5hp motor and it calculates out to 20 cfm based on how fast it fills an 80 gallon tank. The 440a has the same dimensions of all the parts, including pistons and flywheel, so I don't know how it produces more air at the same rpm with the 5hp motor. The 440a is obviously built to withstand being run at a higher rpm, with more hp, to put out more air.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

There's a good deal of great information provided here for you. If you're mechanically inclined and not afraid to make minor repairs then take the time to search for used. Chances are all you'll need to do is simple maintenance, change the oil, filter, check and adjust the drive belts and wipe her down.

If you find an ad on Craigslist, Offerup or the like and are not sure if it's a good deal or not, just post the ad here and you'll get plenty of opinions. Just don't be in a hurry, there's great deals out there, you just need to be patient and search.

 

[RECox286]

What I look for in a used machine: pretty much the same as looking

at a used car...does it run ? Properly ? does it sound like it should ?

the rest is periodic maintenance and how old vs dirty/worn it looks.

With that in mind, arrive at the scene with dollars in your pocket;

If the price is $1000 then prod the seller by pulling out a fist full of

green, saying " Gee, I only have $850 to spend." Usually the sight of cash

is a powerful deal maker ! Also you should be driving something

that will be suitable to haul your brand new used compressor home

(before the seller has time to think about it).

Uncle Bob

 

[redmondjp]

And as for getting it home, I brought home my 850lb. Quincy 325 upright (80-gallon) in my pickup, with nothing more than a piece of carpeting, some yellow straps, and two come-alongs.

Remove tailgate, lay carpet down, tip compressor against bed (once it goes over, you are fully committed!), then connect straps underneath mounting plate at top of tank and use come-alongs to pull compressor up into bed on its side (with come-alongs hooked to the inside front bed corner holes). Then strap compressor in place for the ride home (the one I bought already had the compressor pump oil drained out of it).