Air compressor plumbing

[f575gtc]

Hey guys, I know this has been asked a thousand and one times but I really need help.

I am trying to plumb my air compressor into a regulator and tap but I have some questions

First, Which material is better? copper or black pipe? I prefer copper because its easier for me. Does copper cool down better than black pipe? I know copper works better in heat sinks and such, but I don't know about the cooling properties of black pipe. Also is 3/4 diameter OK? is it overkill does 1/2 inch suffice?

Second, I am pressed for space, I was planning on running the pipe up from the compressor to the ceiling about 7 feet, over like 5-6 feet to go around a window, and back down another 4 feet to about chest level so there would be about 18-20 feet of copper before hitting a regulator.
Is a run that short going to do anything to cool down air? Is it even worth running plumping for a less than 20 foot length?

Finally, what is the best way of separating the copper pipe from the air compressor so I don't transmit vibrations through the pipe mounted on the wall? I was thinking of a rubber hose, but I don't know how well clamps will hold the hose on a smooth copper pipe.

Thanks for reading and any help you can provide.

 

[DekeT]

Sweat a threaded end to your copper pipe and use a hydraulic hose into the tank. 25 feet is usually the minimum for effectively cooling air. Copper versus iron pipe is a chevy/ford question. It just depends on what you like working with and what your budget is.

 

[Fixnair]

If your compressor is less than 5 horsepower 1/2" copper will be fine. Copper wil radiate more heat than black iron pipe. A piece of flex pipe at the tank should eliminate any vibration going out to your pipe. You could probably pick up something at Lowes in the plumbing dept. I wouldn't use gas flex pipe, it won't take the pressure.

 

[f575gtc]

its a true 5hp 22amp motor 16CFM @90psi

what does said flex pipe look like?

I see tractor supply has 3/4 NPT hydraulic hose which is the size of the fitting exiting the compressor tank.

The shortest they have is 36 inches though.

 

[C96]

I like the black iron because of its ruggedness. Don’t have to worry about it being crushed and rupturing should it get struck by something. Also, it’s firm and strong at the service points where it needs to be.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

I had my 5 hp 18 cfm pipped with copper and it was fine but I recently moved in with my inlaws and I am having a house built. When my house is done I plan to pipe it in black iron copper was fine but I dont like cutting apart the copper to sweat a joint everytime I want to make a change. Also my run is about 6 times the length as it was before and black iron is cheaper last time I checked. Also I plan to use 1/2 I see no reason to run 3/4 for just me and maybe my son one day.

 

[930dreamer]

its a true 5hp 22amp motor 16CFM @90psi

what does said flex pipe look like?

I see tractor supply has 3/4 NPT hydraulic hose which is the size of the fitting exiting the compressor tank.

The shortest they have is 36 inches though.

That's exactly what I used, you might look at another location.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

that's a good idea.

 

[atikovi]

Why not just use rubber hose? I'm using 1/2 inch Goodyear Gorilla hose rated at 500 psi. No need to mess with sweating joints and you don't have to line up every piece perfectly for it to fit.

 

[djjsr]

....... I was planning on running the pipe up from the compressor to the ceiling about 7 feet, over like 5-6 feet to go around a window, and back down another 4 feet to about chest level ......

So the end is only 5 or 6 feet from the compressor. I don't see the need for hard plumbing at all.

 

[DirtRoad]

I see alot of people over complicate the lead in hose. Just use a hose barb and clamp.

You can get air hose remnants at HF for dirt cheap.

Its how i did mine and everyone i know did theirs.

 

[DirtRoad]

 

[jnyost]

I would run the trunk with 3/4 and use 1/2 for your drops. I also used copper because I felt it was easier to work with and I didn't feel like threading black pipe.

My overall run is large but I had a drop that was going to be about 10' away from the compressor so I ran pipe back and forth behind the compressor. From the flex line I went straight up, then back and forth coming back down, then put a drain down where I went back up to the trunk. It works wonderfully for condensing moisture. I'll try to find a pic.

I purchased the hydraulic hose from TSC but was frustrated that they didn't have any swivel ends. I ended up having NAPA make me a piece but it was expensive. Next time I'll just buy a flex hose from eBay or tptools.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I would run the trunk with 3/4 and use 1/2 for your drops. I also used copper because I felt it was easier to work with and I didn't feel like threading black pipe.

My overall run is large but I had a drop that was going to be about 10' away from the compressor so I ran pipe back and forth behind the compressor. From the flex line I went straight up, then back and forth coming back down, then put a drain down where I went back up to the trunk. It works wonderfully for condensing moisture. I'll try to find a pic.

I purchased the hydraulic hose from TSC but was frustrated that they didn't have any swivel ends. I ended up having NAPA make me a piece but it was expensive. Next time I'll just buy a flex hose from eBay or tptools.

You could have used a pipe union and short ****** with the TSC hose.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I see alot of people over complicate the lead in hose. Just use a hose barb and clamp.

You can get air hose remnants at HF for dirt cheap.

Its how i did mine and everyone i know did theirs.

I used 300 psi rated 1 inch hose and clamps on mine, as I had 3/4 pipe. The hose went over barbs I custom made so as to get full flow. Here.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227948

 

[jnyost]

You could have used a pipe union and short ****** with the TSC hose.

That's how I had it plumbed to begin with. It worked fine once I got it to seal. The hydraulic hose put a lot of stress on the union and was a pain to get to seal. I ended up having to put rectorseal on the face of the union to get it to seal.

I went back and wanted to do something at the tank (forget what now) and was frustrated having to fight the hose as I unthreaded it from the tank. Just my OCD I guess. I went up town and had the hose made with swivels so I can work on either end without having to undo both.

 

[DirtRoad]

I used 300 psi rated 1 inch hose and clamps on mine, as I had 3/4 pipe. The hose went over barbs I custom made so as to get full flow. Here.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227948

My main trunk is 3/4 and i also almost used 1" rubber hose with a barb and clamp but figured it would be over kill and most likely wouldnt notice much of a difference. I could be wrong though, i havent used it much yet, the shop is upside down right now trying to get the walls finished.

 

[f575gtc]

I am running pipe, not to give me access to air somewhere else, but to cool down the air enough for the moister taps to do their job when I am spraying with HVLP or sandblasting.

The pipe would be only 5-7 feet away from the tank horizontally.

I just measured it and its only 16 feet, so I need to re-think this.

If I use 1/2 inch I can make a 30 foot run and have a drop right next to my sand blasting booth, but will 1/2 inch flow enough air? It has to flow more than a typical 3/8th hose.

Also with copper, do you guys use a drain anywhere in the system? I am under the impression that you don't need one with copper.

 

[sberry]

Chad hit it right, most of this is for nothing and would start with a simple system of 1/2 froom ready mades at the box store, most all one size.

 

[b-body-bob]

will 1/2 inch flow enough air? It has to flow more than a typical 3/8th hose.

With that question I'm not sure if I'm underthinking this or if you're overthinking it. A 1/2" line will always flow more than a 3/8" line.

Also with copper, do you guys use a drain anywhere in the system? I am under the impression that you don't need one with copper.

You still need a drain, how else will you get water out at the end of the run? Maybe your drier will catch it all, but I would still go ahead and install a drip leg and ball valve.

 

[shooting4life]

I just used a steel flex line for a hot water tank for my flex line from my AC to my air lines. Cheap, easy, sell it at HD and it works.

 

[f575gtc]

With that question I'm not sure if I'm underthinking this or if you're overthinking it. A 1/2" line will always flow more than a 3/8" line.



You still need a drain, how else will you get water out at the end of the run? Maybe your drier will catch it all, but I would still go ahead and install a drip leg and ball valve.

I was referring to the fact that normal hose for a compressor is already 3/8 inch so the 1/2 inch copper pipe should be sufficient and not a bottleneck.

 

[DirtRoad]

1/2" is more than enough for any home shop.

Only reason i went with 3/4 main is because the price difference was minimal compared to 1/2". I still used 1/2" for the drops because i figured it would be easier to reduce down to 1/4" for the leader hoses.

 

[jnyost]

I would still run 3/4 for the trunk and 1/2 for the drop. Same reason you do that for water. You don't want your drops to be able to drop pressure in your trunk. It'll also act as a larger "container" of air.

 

[sberry]

Reason you do this for water is there are multiple users on the same system.

 

[b-body-bob]

I was referring to the fact that normal hose for a compressor is already 3/8 inch so the 1/2 inch copper pipe should be sufficient and not a bottleneck.

Gotcha, understood now. I knew I was missing something in the translation.

 

[sberry]

You would think that would be obvious but it isn't always the case.

 

[930dreamer]

I used a 3/4" flex hose because the first upright from the compressor to the ceiling was 3/4" black pipe.

 

[sberry]

1/2" is more than enough for any home shop.

Only reason i went with 3/4 main is because the price difference was minimal compared to 1/2". I still used 1/2" for the drops because i figured it would be easier to reduce down to 1/4" for the leader hoses.

This is true. MTW pointed out most of the good points about system design, I am not against 3/4 but if the reasoning is for pressure drop in a small system its wasted effort. (I can remember some of the first schemes I come up with)

2 stage makes it even less relevant in some cases. In a home shop a larger pipe might help a little with the cooling but slows air velocity down, might help condensate and to blow it more slowly to a drip leg..... up, down, in a home,,, small shop level with small bore pipe, it gets blown along to next drop, the bigger the pipe the more attn. to detail about slope especially with the super small rates of air flow,, very similar in demand to 120V circuits.

What is also similar is that the pressure drop on the header or feeder is moot especially at full pressure. Runs in most of these are short but the idea isn't to empty the air as fast as you can and 90 % of the loss is down the hose and connections,,, and in the case of 1/2 black a pipe with near 5/8 bore anyway.

 

[sberry]

The weak link in these is still the compressor. 5 hp will just keep up with a big body tool which will drain the capacity in a few minutes thru a 3/8 hose. Same with sandblasting and like the faucet at your kitchen sink (and connector lines) which is fed by 1/4 ID line a little restriction may reduce air waste.

Only place 3/8 line is a problem is with large impacts. Even sandblast with small comps losses are insignificant. Pipe route and size are really minor concerns to some extent with air in small shop, what is super important is ergonomics and convenience. I will install as needed but really make each piece in the system do as much work as it can without installing or moving additional equipment other than the tool to hose connection.

In some cases the ideal in a garage would be a single hose on rectracter reel. Only one fitting to worry over and nothing in the way you didn't need. Over the years I can see how plans work or don't and you can figure a few basics by size but air being slightly different in nature I can rebuild and paint a car with a single hose. In most places up to a 1000 sq ft or so could make it with a fixed whip to a work area and a reel to do the rest and possibly reach outdoor for tire air etc,

I have 2 hoses to the hoist, one to my bench and surrounding area, 2 reels that reach out their respective doors and a reel outdoor on an apron. Only one female connection per hose and eliminate all the operator moving sections of hose from hydrant to hydrant. Also reduces leaks, no tools remain connected when not in use.

With 50 ftrs you can lap service to about a thousand sq ft of floor space. I am going to disconnect some secondary in my storage building and change from a 50 to a 100 ft reel, its the only place I still got to fool with a hose section.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

A (true)5 HP Air compressor should get a minimum of 3/4'" line. You could get away with 1/2" if your length is under 25', but with 25' you still won't get sufficient cooling. Generally 50 foot is considered the minimum. Remember 3/4" will flow more volume than 1/2" which in turn flows more than 3/8". Volume (CFM) is the most important factor with air tools. A quick and dirty (but not cheap) way to get some cooling is to use some copper coil, 3/4" would be ideal, 1/2 would be ok. After the coil run your line. I've done it this way and moisture was never an issue.

 

[Gemini]

I used 1/2" black pipe. The horizontal runs downward at a slight angle to a vertical with with a ball valve for draining. Wherever I want to tap I run the the pipe up, over and down as shown. Very little moisture comes out of the drain at the bottom of the tap.

 

[sberry]

The above is pretty good and since its sloped to a drain probably works pretty well.

 

[b-body-bob]

In some cases the ideal in a garage would be a single hose on rectracter reel. Only one fitting to worry over and nothing in the way you didn't need.

That's exactly what I've got. The hose reaches to all corners of my garage and to the end of anything I'd be working on outside.

I'm planning on some aftercooling between the pump and tank, and/or maybe a copper radiator to hang on the wall after the tank, but honestly I don't really have a use for much more than that. Running black iron from one end to the other with drops would just be wasted time and money in my case.

If I'm blasting or squirting paint, I can plug in a disposable dessicant at the point of use.

 

[C96]

I used 1/2" black pipe. The horizontal runs downward at a slight angle to a vertical with with a ball valve for draining. Wherever I want to tap I run the the pipe up, over and down as shown. Very little moisture comes out of the drain at the bottom of the tap.

That’s what I’m talking about right here. Aside from maybe using ¾ or 1” for the main trunk line depending on the length this is the way to do it.

Take note guys, this is a good example of how it’s done.

Great job Gemini

 

[jnyost]

Reason you do this for water is there are multiple users on the same system.

You don't want the trunk to be the bottle neck. It also helps with maintaining pressure over distance.

 

[jnyost]

My cooling area I talked about earlier. Get tons of water at the drain on the left (see the little blue handle behind the starter). Don't see a whole lot at the other drains downstream but do get some still.

 

[javajaws]

I've actually been running pipe this afternoon. Here's the day's work - this is the "end of the line"...1/2" drop and 1/2" drain tied to 3/4" main:

 

[jnyost]

Looks good.

 

[jvitez]

Nice work javajaws.

What type of pipe hangers are those? I've only seen copper straps and black epoxy coated hangers, like my pics. The ones you used look like a great idea, much better than finding studs to screw the pipe straps to, or having to install wooden backing boards first.