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air compressor power switch feedback ?

sweetk30

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parts on order . went different direction . links below on what we did for a better bang for the buck .

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looking for a new switch and before i go full mag start was looking to see if anyone has done this unit ? shows up to 30 amps .... my motor only hits 25-26 on start up and around 22 running aspr motor tag . its a 5hp mutt from a beefy motor and I.R. pump thats 5/7.5/10hp spec per the motor driving it . if i need mag start fine but if i could get bye with this unit great .

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sweetk30

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Pic of motor and the info tag . She is a monster 5hp with a 1 1/8" shaft . Scored it years ago cheep like new .
 

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timgunn1962

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I'm in the UK. I've always liked the Condor MDR3 pressure switches, but have only usually seen them factory-fitted on 3-phase compressors. Every one I've ever seen has had an overload fitted. As I recall, there is adjustment for the on/off differential, which is absent from many pressure switches.

I've changed 400V 3HP 3-phase motors for 230V 3HP single-phase motors a few times* and have always changed the overloads to accommodate the higher current when doing so. The biggest 230V single-phase motor I've run through one was a 4HP, 3 kW, rated for around 18A FLC. That coped no problem.

The MDR3 seems pretty meaty and I'd not expect a problem with a 5 HP motor for home-shop use, but TBH, if it's paying the bills, I'd go full magnetic starter.

*we'd retire the compressors at 2 years: the insurers insisted on an hydraulic pressure test every 2 years and it was cheaper and easier to swap out the compressor than it was to get the testing guy out to a remote site, clean out the receiver and provide water for the hydraulic test. It also involved less downtime. We therefore had compressors that were perfectly ok for home use, but the 3-phase ones needed to be converted to single-phase. Industrial supplies are 400V 3-phase here. Domestic supplies are 230V single-phase.
 
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sweetk30

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I'm in the UK. I've always liked the Condor MDR3 pressure switches, but have only usually seen them factory-fitted on 3-phase compressors. Every one I've ever seen has had an overload fitted. As I recall, there is adjustment for the on/off differential, which is absent from many pressure switches.

I've changed 400V 3HP 3-phase motors for 230V 3HP single-phase motors a few times* and have always changed the overloads to accommodate the higher current when doing so. The biggest 230V single-phase motor I've run through one was a 4HP, 3 kW, rated for around 18A FLC. That coped no problem.

The MDR3 seems pretty meaty and I'd not expect a problem with a 5 HP motor for home-shop use, but TBH, if it's paying the bills, I'd go full magnetic starter.

*we'd retire the compressors at 2 years: the insurers insisted on an hydraulic pressure test every 2 years and it was cheaper and easier to swap out the compressor than it was to get the testing guy out to a remote site, clean out the receiver and provide water for the hydraulic test. It also involved less downtime. We therefore had compressors that were perfectly ok for home use, but the 3-phase ones needed to be converted to single-phase. Industrial supplies are 400V 3-phase here. Domestic supplies are 230V single-phase.
i watched a good video of a guy home hydro test his tanks with water / guage / quick connect and pressure washer . cool way for a home owner to know if its remotely safe to use . and yes these days insurance companys require so much stupid stuff it makes it hard to work .

i also have ready for install a auto tank drain kit so when the compressor is on it will auto drain each time . but my air is fairly dry in the heated shop and if i do long runs i make sure to drain the tank . i get maybe a few oz of water each time at most . and my big spin down seperator on the outlet gets even less during use . and i have no air dryer / cooler setup yet . my pump is 19cfm @175psi . its a I.R. pump .
 

mogandave

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i watched a good video of a guy home hydro test his tanks with water / guage / quick connect and pressure washer . cool way for a home owner to know if its remotely safe to use . and yes these days insurance companys require so much stupid stuff it makes it hard to work .

i also have ready for install a auto tank drain kit so when the compressor is on it will auto drain each time . but my air is fairly dry in the heated shop and if i do long runs i make sure to drain the tank . i get maybe a few oz of water each time at most . and my big spin down seperator on the outlet gets even less during use . and i have no air dryer / cooler setup yet . my pump is 19cfm @175psi . its a I.R. pump .
That sounds like a nice unit.

I would not worry about catastrophic tank failure.

If you're draining your tank regularly I would not worry about it.
 
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sweetk30

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That sounds like a nice unit.

I would not worry about catastrophic tank failure.

If you're draining your tank regularly I would not worry about it.
my I.R. pump is over over run just a bit from factory with the motor i have spinning it . i could swap it up to a 10hp motor and get 36cfm out of the same pump but i dont need that much with my current 200+gal of air storage i have .
 

timgunn1962

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i watched a good video of a guy home hydro test his tanks with water / guage / quick connect and pressure washer . cool way for a home owner to know if its remotely safe to use . and yes these days insurance companys require so much stupid stuff it makes it hard to work .

i also have ready for install a auto tank drain kit so when the compressor is on it will auto drain each time . but my air is fairly dry in the heated shop and if i do long runs i make sure to drain the tank . i get maybe a few oz of water each time at most . and my big spin down seperator on the outlet gets even less during use . and i have no air dryer / cooler setup yet . my pump is 19cfm @175psi . its a I.R. pump .

What autodrain have you got?

There are various different designs. Most of the ones I've used have been either mechanical float-operated or timed-solenoid valves. On properly big stuff, the mechanical float ones are pretty good IME, but for anything under about 10 HP and 200-gallons, or not running 24/365, the timed ones seem to do the job best.

The cheap ones are usually 1/2" ported and use a universal-Voltage asymmetric timer between a DIN-connector and the coil. The coil is not universal and needs to suit your supply Voltage. The big advantages these have over the float-type is that you can place them where you can easily access them and you can test them easily.

I usually replace the receiver drain valve with a ball valve, then pipe out of the ball valve in flexible nylon tubing to the Autodrain valve. Because it'll have 100+ PSI of air pressure behind any water, there's no need to have the autodrain valve at the lowest spot in the system: if you raise it to 4ft, where even a codger like me can see it and test it without squinting or bending, it'll only need 1.73 PSI to lift the water column, leaving 98+ PSI to move the water. I pipe out of the autodrain in flexible nylon tubing to wherever I'm going to collect, or dispose of, the condensate. This needs a little thought: it'll be spitting out the condensate followed by air. I usually try to arrange things so that the air is audible, but not excessive, when draining and doesn't result in mist or water in the shop.

Being audible helps reduce reliance on checking/testing: If I hear it working automatically, there's no need to test it that day. I use a push-fit connector to connect the nylon tubing out of the autodrain. This makes it easy to unplug the tubing and put a finger over the end of the fitting to check whether the valve is passing. This isn't a frequent thing, but it's nice to make it easy to check if the compressor seems to be running more than I'd expect. The biggest cause of passing autodrain valves IME is tiny balls of weld from the receiver welding on new compressors.

I usually set a 15 minute interval and the shortest drain time I feel comfortable with (typically it's about 2-3 seconds). I want it to activate while I'm in the vicinity and not doing anything particularly noisy, so I know it's working. I "expect" it to fail (the ball valve on the bottom of the receiver means I can isolate it to find out why/how and fix it). At work, we've used a lot of different ones over the last 35 years. The "better" branded ones might fail less often, but certainly not to the extent that it's reasonable to assume they won't fail. Cost tends to be at least 4 times that of the cheapies and a cheap one installed plus a spare on the shelf is the most cost-effective approach to all but a few industrial production situations.

If buying the cheapies, it's worth checking the threads used. The US uses 60-degree NP threads, where most of the rest of the world uses threads based on the old British Whitworth 55-degree threadform.
 

Citation

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It appears that motor has an overload circuit built in. I'm guessing that is what the red button does. Since overload protection isn't needed a simple motor contactor driven by the pressure switch is fine. You wouldn't need a high current pressure switch since it would be only switching a relay. Even the cheapest pressure switches are typically rated at 15A.

Something like this Dayton should be workable

The catch is you don't need/want the start/stop buttons and you don't need the overload protection. The start/stop buttons are used for things like a large bandsaw where you need the some type of power switch. Your compressor has that in the form of the pressure switch. Most compressor specific starters also have an overload protection part. You don't need that as your motor already has one. Chances are you take that Dayton part, wire your pressure switch so it directly controls the relay coil in the starter and you are good to go. It would bypass/disable the buttons. All would be fine. The thing is, the actual motor contactor parts are relatively cheap
(example, not claiming fit for your purpose https://www.walmart.com/ip/RANMEI-A...bution-Motor-Starter-Relay-32A-Ith/2310693351 )
However, you need the housing etc. The next step up in price are models with motor control on the front. Since those switches work by energizing a relay to hold the power on/off the button switches can't be wired in series with your pressure switch. However, you can wire your pressure switch in place of those controls.
The next step up are your typical air compressor control boxes that include overload protection.
Something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009W5XQMI/?tag=atomicindus08-20
That model includes the overload protection that you already have. You could use that box as is and just set the over current protection to something higher than your motor rating. At that point it would only trip if you motor overload failed. A nice thing about that model is it does have a "power" switch that would work in series with your pressure switch. It basically disconnects the relay control wire so even if the pressure switch says go, the relay won't get power.

If the extra cost isn't an issue, go with that last one for $85. If cost is an issue, go with the Dayton and just bypass the buttons.
 
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sweetk30

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@Citation great info and will say a bit over my head .

i have a 60amp rated sub panel disconnect box that feeds the power so no i do not need a on/off switch setup on this stuff .

its a 5hp motor now but the pump can go 7.5 or 10hp for more cfm ad new correct motor side pulley . so maybe a 7.5 hp rated started would be a good thing for later upgrade .
 
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sweetk30

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so what do you guys think i should get for my combo ?

reason i ask is i value your opinion and like the details . i might not understand them so i as more info but i value them .
 

Citation

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so what do you guys think i should get for my combo ?

reason i ask is i value your opinion and like the details . i might not understand them so i as more info but i value them .
If you are ok with near $100 I would get one of the Chinese magnetic starters. If your existing pressure switch works it shouldn't have any trouble switching the relay.
 
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The Tool Tyrant

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If you want trouble free operation go with a new pressure switch and magnetic starter...buy once, cry once.
Our 5 HP Quincy QR25-325 shop compressors starts & stops on an average of 5-8 times per day (due to 360 gal. storage) and have never had an issue with pressure switch or magnetic starter.
 

Citation

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Since the pressure switch will only see the relay current just about any one will do. I personally like Condor but that isn't based on much other than they seem to be built better.
 

whateg01

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I've used contactors for a bunch of machines over the years. I've always tried to stay with name brands but I always wonder, how much risk is there in using a cheaper alternative. The only really danger would be the contacts welding closed but I always spec a higher current rating than is needed.
 

mogandave

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I've used contactors for a bunch of machines over the years. I've always tried to stay with name brands but I always wonder, how much risk is there in using a cheaper alternative. The only really danger would be the contacts welding closed but I always spec a higher current rating than is needed.
And if the contacts weld closed, you'll likely hear the pop-off valve, unless you leave it powered-up when you're gone.

I used to be skeptical of the cheap stuff, but when I moved to Thailand (over 20 years ago) it was often all that was available. I've not had any real issues using the stuff. A lot of the plugs are cr*p though.

I bought this in 2018 to control the water pump that fills our roof-tank, which it turns on once an hour and has worked flawlessly:
Contactor.jpg

It costed: THB213.00 (~US$6.12)

It used to come on every time you used any water, so I added this on-delay relay so it does not come on more than once an hour.
Timer.jpg

It costed: THB143.00 (~US$4.11)
 
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sweetk30

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If he wants to do it inexpensively, as the motor is (apparently) already protected, I would just go with a contactor like this:

Probably find something even for half that that will work.

SG Pressure switch:
i see you linked a 3 pole contactor . any reason for this ? i have single phase 220 power .

i was thinking this one . https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019EDHZO2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

and them pressure switches are to low a psi for my unit . i run a 175 max pump .
 

mogandave

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i see you linked a 3 pole contactor . any reason for this ? i have single phase 220 power .

i was thinking this one . https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019EDHZO2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

and them pressure switches are to low a psi for my unit . i run a 175 max pump .
The two pole is fine, but I don't think the 20A you picked is a good choice for a 5HP motor.

I'm not an electrician, but given the motor is (apparently) protected, I don't think there is any real down-side to oversizing the contactor. I picked a 60A, you could get by with 40A.

I did not remember what pressure you were running, I just picked a typical SG switch.

Why do you run 175? At the plant we ran (I think) 120 at the pump, regulated to 100 at the loop and regulated to 90 at the workstations.
 
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sweetk30

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The two pole is fine, but I don't think the 20A you picked is a good choice for a 5HP motor.

I'm not an electrician, but given the motor is (apparently) protected, I don't think there is any real down-side to oversizing the contactor. I picked a 60A, you could get by with 40A.

I did not remember what pressure you were running, I just picked a typical SG switch.

Why do you run 175? At the plant we ran (I think) 120 at the pump, regulated to 100 at the loop and regulated to 90 at the workstations.
could of swarn i saw 40amp on the 2 pole . . . so just use the 3 pole but only 2 legs worth .

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here it is . there is a amperage choice on the 240v 2 pole . std is 20 but goes 30 or 40 . i was going to pick the 40 . https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019G8OQCY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

i have 300 gal of storage currently so i just run the 175 and let her fill up . i run my line regulated at 120 and its 3/4" line to 1/2" outlets to 3/8" couplers . the line and layout was here when moved in .
 

mogandave

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could of swarn i saw 40amp on the 2 pole . . . so just use the 3 pole but only 2 legs worth .
Yes
----------------------------------------

here it is . there is a amperage choice on the 240v 2 pole . std is 20 but goes 30 or 40 . i was going to pick the 40 . https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019G8OQCY/?tag=atomicindus08-20
40A is fine, and half the price of the 60A so perfect.
i have 300 gal of storage currently so i just run the 175 and let her fill up . i run my line regulated at 120 and its 3/4" line to 1/2" outlets to 3/8" couplers . the line and layout was here when moved in .

What do you have at the tool, what tools do you have, and have you been using them?

For drills, grinders and whatnot, T think 90 is generally plenty, assuming you have good volume, which it would appear you do unless your shop huge.

You can put a gage before the tool, run the tool and see what your pressure-drop is.
 
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sweetk30

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been running all the same tools prob 20years or more at 120 no problems . back in my old shop days to now my private play pen .

yaa volume drop not so much with the setup in here .
 
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sweetk30

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ordered the 2 pole 220v 40amp unit and a new 20 amp 4 port unloader equipped switch for 20 bucks .

will report back when i get ready for install if i need help unless someone has wired up this style contactor unit and can show me a quick way for my mind to understand .
 
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mogandave

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Wiring the contactor should be pretty straight forward. The pressure switch turns the coil on the contactor off and on, the contactor turns the motor off and on. Virtually no load on the pressure switch.
 

PT Doc

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My Quincy 5/80 from circa 2012 has this switch and uses a 5hp Baldor motor. You will be fine.
 
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sweetk30

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The coil is what is specified. The link above indicated 240V, but it could as easily be 12, 24, 120 or something else.

Make sure what you order has a 220-240V 60Hz coil.
just to make sure as these dont come with any instructions at all .......... i feed 240 to the coil 1 leg per coil tab ?

my plan was the 220 cord from wall plug to 1 side of new relay . also pull power from there to feed to new pressure switch . then back to coil tabs and last the relay out to motor .
 
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