Air compressor set up questions

[Sasquatch912]

So, I am planning to probably purchase a Quincy 60 Gallon soon and was planning to get the Master Airline kit that is on sale at Northern Tool (https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200484023_200484023). Now I am going to run a Lotos plasma cutter and am confused at the set up I need to remove water from the lines. I see there is the standard dryer and separator set up, but I also notice there is a desiccant filter set up as well. What exactly do I need?


Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Jswain]

Are you running it with a plasma table or just handheld? You can do a lot of cutting handheld before you cycle a 60gallon enough to worry about getting the air hot enough to create a lot of moisture.

Try using the standard filter first, placed as far away from the compressor as possible. I have a small copper manifold on my wall and a 10 micron filter/regulator then a 10 micron filter/water seperator for my clean air outlet and my plasma cutting never generates enough moisture to become a problem and the 2nd filter stays very clean.

Plasma table & cutting full sheets down continuously would be a different story and you'd likely want a refrigerated dryer or a better filter setup

 

[Sasquatch912]

Are you running it with a plasma table or just handheld? You can do a lot of cutting handheld before you cycle a 60gallon enough to worry about getting the air hot enough to create a lot of moisture.

Try using the standard filter first, placed as far away from the compressor as possible. I have a small copper manifold on my wall and a 10 micron filter/regulator then a 10 micron filter/water seperator for my clean air outlet and my plasma cutting never generates enough moisture to become a problem and the 2nd filter stays very clean.

Plasma table & cutting full sheets down continuously would be a different story and you'd likely want a refrigerated dryer or a better filter setup

Handheld Plasma cutter.

So I dont need a desicannt filter. Just the water separator and dryer. Should I add an extra filter like you did further down?

 

[Jswain]

All depends on how you plumb your air I did my copper manifold - filter/regulator combo - then split to two outlets with a drain valve in the bottom one outlet goes up to my hose reel for oiled tools then second outlet has an additional filter for blasting/plasma cutting etc.

I would have stepped my micron sizes down as well but in canuckadia I am having a hard time sourcing just the filters themselves (ie: 10 micron in the filter/regulator then 5 micron in the 2nd)

Handheld plasma I'd likely just throw a decent filter/regulator combo on it and go from there you can always add additional filters later. Obviously don't add any inline Oilers to the same drop you're running to your plasma cutter

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Many folks, including myself use the 'Motor Guard' filter unit mounted on the power source or cart... https://www.motorguard.com/air_2_2.html

I use my plasma a lot and have never had issues with air quaility.

 

[Sasquatch912]

Many folks, including myself use the 'Motor Guard' filter unit mounted on the power source or cart... https://www.motorguard.com/air_2_2.html

I use my plasma a lot and have never had issues with air quaility.

Whats the cost of that?

I found this set up and was wondering would it be sufficient for my plasma cutter, etc?

 

[matt_i]

I think you can do pretty well with just a standard cyclonic filter for a handheld plasma cutter.

Next up would be a coalescing filter with an actual filter element.

The last step is the dessicant dryer, such as for painting apps.

Using metal piping instead of plastic has the added benefit of being a heat sink that directionally helps condense moisture.

 

[Sasquatch912]

I think you can do pretty well with just a standard cyclonic filter for a handheld plasma cutter.

Next up would be a coalescing filter with an actual filter element.

The last step is the dessicant dryer, such as for painting apps.

Using metal piping instead of plastic has the added benefit of being a heat sink that directionally helps condense moisture.

You mean copper? I have been watching some videos on YouTube where people were using the gray piping but it started to rust inside bad.

 

[DeeKay]

You mean copper? I have been watching some videos on YouTube where people were using the gray piping but it started to rust inside bad.

SCD40 Black Iron or Steel is used all over the industrial world for air pipe, If you're really worried about it just put a small filter at your point of use and you'll be good to go. But with decent treatment at the compressor you shouldn't have much moisture to worry about, then again I do live in Colorado where relative humidity hardly ever goes over 25%

All that said, sweating copper for air lines might be easier/cheaper if you don't have access to a pipe threader.

 

[Sasquatch912]

SCD40 Black Iron or Steel is used all over the industrial world for air pipe, If you're really worried about it just put a small filter at your point of use and you'll be good to go. But with decent treatment at the compressor you shouldn't have much moisture to worry about, then again I do live in Colorado where relative humidity hardly ever goes over 25%

All that said, sweating copper for air lines might be easier/cheaper if you don't have access to a pipe threader.

Its like 200% Humidity here in Georgia

 

[DeeKay]

Its like 200% Humidity here in Georgia

I hear ya man, I grew up in St. Louis, humidity one thing I do not miss. Winter is colder and summer is hotter...yuck

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Whats the cost of that?

I found this set up and was wondering would it be sufficient for my plasma cutter, etc?

Yes, that's exactly what you need.

https://store.cyberweld.com/mogumplairfi.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase

 

[Sasquatch912]

Yes, that's exactly what you need.

https://store.cyberweld.com/mogumplairfi.html?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase

You recomme that system somewhere further away from the compressor and then before the port for the plasma cutter to install that filter you posted?

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

You recomme that system somewhere further away from the compressor and then before the port for the plasma cutter to install that filter you posted?

You'll notice that it comes with a mounting bracket. I've found It's best to mount it directly to the rear of the plasma cutter, using a quick disconnect ****** to allow quick hookup to your air hose. It's best to keep this filter proprietary to your plasma machine rather than sharing it with other equipment.

 

[sberry]

Ya, I replumbed after some years and the last time I did it I kind of had an idea f wtf and got it crispy dry and on my paint and plasma have a little final.

 

[Sasquatch912]

You'll notice that it comes with a mounting bracket. I've found It's best to mount it directly to the rear of the plasma cutter, using a quick disconnect ****** to allow quick hookup to your air hose. It's best to keep this filter proprietary to your plasma machine rather than sharing it with other equipment.

Youre talking about the filter that you gave me the link to? And then keep the oil and dryer set up i posted little closer to the air compressor?



What about pex line for the compressed air line throughout the shop? Been reading some things on it and see people recommending it and others against it.

 

[manwithtools]

I'm not sure about everyone's location, but when I lived in Middle TN, home of "air you can wear" - the humidity is so high. I used a desiccant dryer and found I had significantly longer consumables life when using my Miller 375 plasma cutter. I had a MotorGuard and then added the desiccant, night and day difference.

 

[Sasquatch912]

I'm not sure about everyone's location, but when I lived in Middle TN, home of "air you can wear" - the humidity is so high. I used a desiccant dryer and found I had significantly longer consumables life when using my Miller 375 plasma cutter. I had a MotorGuard and then added the desiccant, night and day difference.

Oh yeah, I'm In Southeast GA...where humidity is 200%. Definitely will get a dryer for sure

 

[DeeKay]

Youre talking about the filter that you gave me the link to? And then keep the oil and dryer set up i posted little closer to the air compressor?



What about pex line for the compressed air line throughout the shop? Been reading some things on it and see people recommending it and others against it.

PEX AL PEX is actually rated for compressed air; has a layer of aluminum sandwiched in there.
I know people have run the regular water PEX for compressed air, but not sure well it holds up, I know you have to keep it out of the sun though. It's probably like running air lines in PVC, some swear by it and have had it for years with no issues, others have had it explode into PVC shrapnel...

 

[TNToy]

My 60 gallon upright runs my plasma cutter flawlessly without a filter to be seen.

But my setup is rather more involved than most. There’s a post on it here on GJ from 5+ years ago, somewhere.

Compressor head discharges 250+ degree air.
It’s plumbed into a transmission cooler, which spits the cooled air into a compact franzinator (google that) made out of galvanized pipe. After that, the air is fed to the 60 gallon tank.

Even on a 103 degree day with 85 percent humidity here in the South, I’ve never seen a single drop of water at my tank drain. It’s all in the franzinator.

Hot air cannot have the water removed any way except for a dessicant filter. Why? Because the water is still a GAS. Cool the air down and it will condense into water droplets, which is why a coke can sweats when placed outside on a hot day. Now they water is easy to pull out of your plumbing with a simple trap or the like.

Traditional compressors have all kinds of water in the tank because that’s where it cools. Dump 250* air into the tank and let it cool down? You end up with water in the bottom of the tank.

Run your airtools hard and heat the whole thing up? You’ll end up with water in the hose because it didnt sit in the tank long enough to condense out... that happened in your airhose.

With my setup, I’ve run my plasma off a rubber hose plumbed difectly into the tank without any problems. Because the air is actually dry.

If you can plumb your shop with even a short 20 foot run of 2.0-3.0” gas pipe between the compressor and the rest of your plumbing, you’ll notice a huge decrease in moisture because that steel pipe is radiating heat and the larger diameter means the air sits in it for a while. (Make sure you slope this pipe downhill toward a drain.)

 

[DeeKay]

My 60 gallon upright runs my plasma cutter flawlessly without a filter to be seen.

But my setup is rather more involved than most. There’s a post on it here on GJ from 5+ years ago, somewhere.

Compressor head discharges 250+ degree air.
It’s plumbed into a transmission cooler, which spits the cooled air into a compact franzinator (google that) made out of galvanized pipe. After that, the air is fed to the 60 gallon tank.

Even on a 103 degree day with 85 percent humidity here in the South, I’ve never seen a single drop of water at my tank drain. It’s all in the franzinator.

Hot air cannot have the water removed any way except for a dessicant filter. Why? Because the water is still a GAS. Cool the air down and it will condense into water droplets, which is why a coke can sweats when placed outside on a hot day. Now they water is easy to pull out of your plumbing with a simple trap or the like.

Traditional compressors have all kinds of water in the tank because that’s where it cools. Dump 250* air into the tank and let it cool down? You end up with water in the bottom of the tank.

Run your airtools hard and heat the whole thing up? You’ll end up with water in the hose because it didnt sit in the tank long enough to condense out... that happened in your airhose.

With my setup, I’ve run my plasma off a rubber hose plumbed difectly into the tank without any problems. Because the air is actually dry.

If you can plumb your shop with even a short 20 foot run of 2.0-3.0” gas pipe between the compressor and the rest of your plumbing, you’ll notice a huge decrease in moisture because that steel pipe is radiating heat and the larger diameter means the air sits in it for a while. (Make sure you slope this pipe downhill toward a drain.)

So is a "franzinator" just a home made separator?

 

[StRacerDuke]

Here's how I did mine:

 

[TNToy]

So is a "franzinator" just a home made separator?

Yes. But it’s also delibarely built longer larger and out of metal to work as an expansion chamber, as well.

I built it mostly to see how full of s**t the guys online were.
Turns out that it works shockingly well.

 

[DeeKay]

Very cool idea and way cheaper than buying a big purpose built separator.

 

[Sasquatch912]

My 60 gallon upright runs my plasma cutter flawlessly without a filter to be seen.

But my setup is rather more involved than most. There’s a post on it here on GJ from 5+ years ago, somewhere.

Compressor head discharges 250+ degree air.
It’s plumbed into a transmission cooler, which spits the cooled air into a compact franzinator (google that) made out of galvanized pipe. After that, the air is fed to the 60 gallon tank.

Even on a 103 degree day with 85 percent humidity here in the South, I’ve never seen a single drop of water at my tank drain. It’s all in the franzinator.

Hot air cannot have the water removed any way except for a dessicant filter. Why? Because the water is still a GAS. Cool the air down and it will condense into water droplets, which is why a coke can sweats when placed outside on a hot day. Now they water is easy to pull out of your plumbing with a simple trap or the like.

Traditional compressors have all kinds of water in the tank because that’s where it cools. Dump 250* air into the tank and let it cool down? You end up with water in the bottom of the tank.

Run your airtools hard and heat the whole thing up? You’ll end up with water in the hose because it didnt sit in the tank long enough to condense out... that happened in your airhose.

With my setup, I’ve run my plasma off a rubber hose plumbed difectly into the tank without any problems. Because the air is actually dry.

If you can plumb your shop with even a short 20 foot run of 2.0-3.0” gas pipe between the compressor and the rest of your plumbing, you’ll notice a huge decrease in moisture because that steel pipe is radiating heat and the larger diameter means the air sits in it for a while. (Make sure you slope this pipe downhill toward a drain.)

I found the post, but do you have any pictures of the set up?

I'm still debating about this all. I just ordered the 3 stage filter set up and am still debating on the motorguard filter.

I'm trying to figure out how to run my set up and I'm really debating about using PEX line for all my lines and I know people say plastic pipe retains moisture. I just don't want to do copper line as I don't want to go through the process of cutting and soldering.

If your set up can eliminate the moisture before it gets in the line then I need to do that so I could cut the cost of having to buy filter elements or desiccant beads.

 

[Sasquatch912]

So, I have ordered a Haydon Cooler with 3/4 fittings for the aftercooler. Can I make the new hoses hydraulic or should I go with copper line (flexible)?

 

[Jswain]

Hydraulic hoses will last a long time and will be easy to work with just make sure one end swivels for the install

 

[Sasquatch912]

Well, I got the compressor aftercooler hooked up. It definitely cools off the air, but I ran into an issue. I have like 3 compression fittings leaking when the air compressor runs on the aftercooler lines. Ive tighten them up and it fully hasn't stopped. Is it possible to run solder around the ferrules to seal the leaks. Really hate having to take it all apart again..

 

[DeeKay]

If you're talking about brass compression fittings for copper tubing I'd take them apart and make sure the tubing is seated fully in the fitting. If the tubing slipped back, they will hold fine but they wont seal; the ferrule needs to be able to bight the tubing on both ends.

 

[shortykorte]

I installed PEX about 2yrs ago and haven’t any problems. I’m in Tallahassee and have just upgraded my compressor. The old setup only has the HF blue filter 3 feet from tank. Doing a lot of DA sanding lately, I was getting water even in a little water trap right before the DA.
I’m trying to decide on the new set up too. I have some free 3/4 copper that I will integrate in some type of cooler. I’m also looking at including a franznator type set up in with the copper pipes. For the paint leg, have descant filter waiting to be installed.
Look forward to seeing what you come up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Sasquatch912]

Well, I've finished my install for now until I get my shop extended. I have the pex installed and ran some pressure and its holding.

Now at the corner of the walls where the pex is, I didn't use any elbows. I figured I best not do it because I wanted to have less potential air leaks.

The after cooler is working great as well. Definitely a temperature change.

I had to use a copper to hydraulic hose set up for the air line going into the tank after the cooler and Inline water trap.

Shorty, I recommend doing the trans cooler like I did attached to the belt guard