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Air Compressor Shutting off & tripping breaker

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freebo86

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Got a hand me down compressor, Campbell Housefeld, 20gal, 6HP (O.MG!!!) best of all runs on 120V ;) Sarcastic on the 6HP @120V as we all know what that means.

Issue is when plugged into the outlet unit starts then shuts off within 10seconds or so. This also results in tripping a 20A dedicated breaker with nothing else on this circuit.

During the time it runs it builds some pressure as when I pull the relief it releases the pressure.

Any idea where to begin with the troubleshooting with this one?


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The Cobbler

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does it do it with zero pressure in the tank? try running it with the drain valve open and see if it still quits.
is it belt driven? does the compressor spin freely by hand?

what model, got pics?
 
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RTM

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Or run it without the belts, see if it’s the motor vs compressor, assuming it has belts of course?
 
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Wrench97

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If at all possible get a amp reading to see what the motor is actually drawing.
Is the breaker new?
Is there a plate on the motor telling you what the amp rating is?
@120v even a 2Hp motor will draw over 20a.
 
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metaldad

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you need to put an amp meter on the line feeding the pump. compare that with nameplate ratings. voltage correct - at the pump?
need more info.
 
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Ben Buck

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Check valve into the tank from the feed line could be bad, allowing tank pressure back flow preventing the pump from pumping- thus causing the motor to start to go into a fit and blow fuses or breakers !

Can't over come the tank pressure already pumped !

Just my 2 cents- YMMV ?
 
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Granite80

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Ammeter to get the actual. Had a similar issue but a brand new breaker fixed it. But I have less HP


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freebo86

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Air Compressor Shutting off & tripping breaker

Sorry gents. Here is a bit more information. The unit is in fact only 6HP but that don’t make a difference. It’s a oiless unit.

With the tank drain removed the motor wines now and won’t get going. What does this tell us? I was suspecting the capacitor at first?


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jonesg

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freebo86 said:
Sorry gents. Here is a bit more information. The unit is in fact only 5HP but that don’t make a difference. It’s a oiless unit.

With the tank drain removed the motor wines now and won’t get going. What does this tell us? I was suspecting the capacitor at first?
Click to expand...

Remove the belt.
if its struggling to start, give it a push, if it spins up the cap is toast.

But seeing as it trips the breaker after it does run it looks like the motor is seizing, dry bushings or just burnt out.
 
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freebo86

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jonesg said:
Remove the belt.
if its struggling to start, give it a push, if it spins up the cap is toast.

But seeing as it trips the breaker after it does run it looks like the motor is seizing, dry bushings or just burnt out.
Click to expand...

There is no belt.
 
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Citation

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Since this is direct drive you can remove the pipe from the head to the tank or run with the tank drain valve wide open. However, if the unit starts then stops once it starts to come up to speed I would say either the run cap or the centrifugal switch.

Don't buy into the "5hp" on the sticker. The detailed label says 15A, 120V motor. which makes it a ~1.5hp motor.
 
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TuxThePenguin

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freebo86 said:
Unfortunately my DVM is not capable of checking capacitors..


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Capacitance test almost never finds a bad cap. It would probably work for a ceramic capacitor (which tend to fail by physically cracking), but very rare for electrolytics and oil-filleds. They can even be visibly leaking pretty badly yet still test to have a reasonable capacitance by overly-simple tests.

It's almost completely useless to check caps this way. It will almost always lead to a false negative on a bad cap. i.e. tests ok but is really bad. Even if OP had a meter w/ capacitance checker, it's pretty much a waste of time to even bother using it.

You need to use an ESR meter and/or leakage tester to find bad caps most of the time.

A $20 "no name" ESR meter (I have a MESR-100 from Ebay) would be 100x more useful than even a $1000 multimeter for this purpose. This is not an exaggeration. I have a Keysight 34465A, a Fluke 87V, an Agilent U1282A, a Flir DM284 and more - I wouldn't bother touching any of those to test a cap to see if it's good or not. I would run to my $20 ESR meter. I would use the capacitance test on the other meters more like if I'm designing an RC filter and I want to know the specific capacitance of a given capacitor, since they are typically only rated to +/- 20%.

Or if you're electronically inclined (not really the scope of this thread), go look up the leakage tester from Paul Carlson (of Youtube channel "Mr. Carlson's Lab") as it'll be even more useful than a ESR tester, but it'll cost you a bit more than $20 and you'll have to put it together.
 
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pancho400cid

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The running current is 15 amps. you have it on a 20 amp breaker.

There is probably nothing wrong with the compressor. You may need to upgrade to a 30 Amp breaker (and larger wires to suit the bigger breaker).

I had similar issues with my 2 HP compressor, but it was a dual voltage motor so ran fine when swapped to 240 VAC power.
 
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TuxThePenguin

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Nobody designs products to need 30A 120V breakers. It shouldn't need one.

If you're going to call an electrician to install some weird breaker so your compressor can work, you're going to call the electrician and ask him (or her) to install something that's 240v.

While a 30A breaker might "fix" it, there is absolutely no chance that it's the correct fix.

Edit: Maybe if it's a GFCI or AFCI breaker, though, it'll have additional sensitivity to tripping when it comes to motors.
 
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TuxThePenguin

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Wrench97 said:
Since when?

HVAC tech use them every day to test caps.
Click to expand...

Many don't have it. It's a lot more common than it used to be on general purpose DMMs, but still not all have it.

I'm not sure which meter he has and whether it's a good idea for him to upgrade his meter for other reasons too (maybe increased safety with line or high voltage if his is lower quality) but I think he'd otherwise be well off with like a LCR+ESR meter. Can get them on Ebay pretty cheap. I use an ESR meter that doesn't have LCR but they have combined ones for cheap these days.

Motor caps are high voltage but no tester will actually test them at high voltage except for testers specifically designed to do specifically that (a high voltage leakage tester) so even one of the open frame ESR meters would be safe to use and they're remarkably good devices. I still prefer the ones in cases though.
 
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TuxThePenguin

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Wrench97 said:
No sht which would be why I asked if he had one capable of checking them:beer:
Click to expand...

Well you said "since when" which was confusing because it's like... if his DMM doesn't have it, it doesn't have it. Seemed like an odd reply. I dunno.

It is nice to have a DMM that does have it, yes.
 
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freebo86

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Good responses on here. I was well aware it was broken, no surprise there.

The unit does not require a 30A breaker, as TuxThePenguin mentioned, a 120V/30A application is not typical. Especially not for a "household" compressor.

If you read the name plate, it is wired for 120V/15A. Indicating that a 15A breaker will most likely suffice but a 20A is probably better suited.

I have pulled the tank drain plug, and the motor whines now, it seems to want to start but not quite. With the tank drain in it started but cuts out.
 
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Citation

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freebo86 said:
So don’t believe it has anything to do with the unloader valve/pressure switch?


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So far no. If you open the drain valve so there is zero pressure in the tank and leave it open while starting the compressor you can know for certain. If the unloader doesn't unload the motor won't start turning. The unloader is only needed to start on the first pumping cycle. By revolution 2 the line is already pressurized as it should be.
 
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freebo86

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Citation said:
So far no. If you open the drain valve so there is zero pressure in the tank and leave it open while starting the compressor you can know for certain. If the unloader doesn't unload the motor won't start turning. The unloader is only needed to start on the first pumping cycle. By revolution 2 the line is already pressurized as it should be.
Click to expand...

The drain valve is out and the motor whines. Doesn't start at all.
 
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freebo86

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Air Compressor Shutting off & tripping breaker

pattenp said:
Gee just buy a freekin cap, what do you have to loose other than a few bucks. :willy_nil
Click to expand...

Not sure where you get your pricing but these two capacitors are over $100 combined online..

There is two capacitors on there. Which one is the start and which one is run?


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TuxThePenguin

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Lower capacitance is run
Higher capacitance is start

You don't need the exact same parts. You need the same capacitance and the same voltage or higher and the same rating (start/run). Difference is that start capacitors have higher capacitance but can only handle being connected to the circuit for like a second. Run capacitor has less capacitance but runs indefinitely.

Edit: Also you want the same physical dimensions. Higher voltage are usually larger but not always. So in that sense they might not fit, but some still will.
 
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pattenp

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Re: Air Compressor Shutting off & tripping breaker

freebo86 said:
Not sure where you get your pricing but these two capacitors are over $100 combined online..

There is two capacitors on there. Which one is the start and which one is run?


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Click to expand...

Those caps shouldn't cost much more than $15 each. I don't know what you are looking at for $100 for the two.
 
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