Air Compressor Woes

[Neura]

Well finally got around to upgrading my air compressor a few weeks back. I got a Techquip 80 Gallon Vertical 2 Stage Compressor for a good deal (this particular compressor uses a Chinook K-30 Pump made in Italy), problem is that it had a 5HP 3 Phase motor on it (made in china). I located a Leeson 5HP Single Phase motor and a Baldor 3HP Single Phase motor (both or on the bench now) The Leeson was originally from a compressor and had died and was rebuilt in the 90s and put on the shelf and never used. The model number on the leeson is 130030 (Northern Tool lists it as 131537) so this is a cap start /cap run motor. The Baldor 3HP is a 215T Frame Explosion Proof motor, and was used for pumping off the green at a golf course, I was told it runs as well. The Baldor needs a Contactor etc to make it work.

The garage is all wired up, 30 Amp 2 Pole Breaker in the panel. 10/2 Wire (Black/Red/Ground) ran about 15 feet to the compressor. I have power at the compressor end but cant get either motor to work. I have tried with no load on either motor. Both motors spin freely when you turn them by hand. So Lets start with the Leeson motor first.. I have tested the caps with a digital ohm meter and both sides of the start caps and the run cap both go high and come down to zero pretty quick and all 3 test the same way. So I suspect the caps are good. I have tried to bypass the pressure switch as well on the compressor to rule that out and use the breaker as on the off switch for the motor.

Could this be an issue with the start switch internally?

The Baldor I can't get to run either, I mounted the contactor from the 3 Phase motor on the wall as it is rated for a 3HP Single Phase motor within the amp range of the motor. the contactor is a telemecanique LC1 D2501 with a LR2 D2353 relay directly attached. I have tried with power (black and red) hooked to T1 and T2, and T1 and T3. I have always had the the pressure switch hooked up on this one though and never tried to bypass it. I am thinking an issue with either the contactor or the motor as well. Does anyone know how this contactor and relay should be wired for single phase as it was wired for 3 phase with a 110V line going to the pressure switch.

Thanks for any help and ideas in advance.

 

[usa#1]

I would test the motors without the contactor to make sure they work first. When you had the contactor wired up and energized, did you check for 230V at the motor terminals? Additionally, If you have a 110V control volt contactor, you will probably need to run a neutral to the contactor to keep from burning out the 110V coil.

 

[Aceman]

The simplest way:

Bypass the contactor and run the motor direct off the breaker to see if it'll run. That 2p 30 is undersized for that 5hp, so it may trip on startup.

 

[Neura]

Well I tried hooking the 3HP right to the power bypassing the contactor. Same thing no try of spinning or humming or anything out of it.

Did this a couple of nights ago witht he 5HP Leeson as well. and same problem. Can't get any hum or anything out of these motors.

Anyone have some ideas on what else to check. I am at a loss now.

the 5HP Leeson is rated at 21A. and with the cap start and run, it shouldn't trip the breaker.

 

[Torque1st]

For one thing the 3 phase motor will not run on single phase. You can hook it up and manually spin it to get it to run but it will not start and run on single phase.

Take the 5HP motor to a motor shop and have it checked out. Make sure you are hooking it up properly also.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Well I tried hooking the 3HP right to the power bypassing the contactor. Same thing no try of spinning or humming or anything out of it.

Did this a couple of nights ago witht he 5HP Leeson as well. and same problem. Can't get any hum or anything out of these motors.

Anyone have some ideas on what else to check. I am at a loss now.

the 5HP Leeson is rated at 21A. and with the cap start and run, it shouldn't trip the breaker.

If all you are saying is correct - your problem is very fundamental -Are you sure the motors are single phase? Why a T1, T2 and T3 connection on your motor (if I understood correctly)? Even with bad caps and miswiring either single phase or 3 phase - you should get some kind of hum - even if its the hum you may make by coming across the line. Go back to your basics here and verify....something does not sound right at all.

 

[Aceman]

Both of his motors are single phase.

His motor starter is a 3 pole unit with T1 T2 T3 designations. My advice to the OP at this point is to turn the breaker on with wiring connected direct to the motor while checking power. If power is correct and the motors are in fact tapped up for the correct voltage but will not run, I'd follow Torque's advice and take them to a motor shop.

 

[Neura]

There is some confusion here.. Original motor and contactor were 3 Phase (T1, T2 T3). Contactor is able to do a 3 AMP Single Phase as well. I am just unsure on the correct wiring for it though. The 3 Phase motor is sitting on the garage floor now. The Snigle Phase motors are on the bench.

Both of these motors that I have now the 5HP Leeson and the 3HP Baldor are Single Phase. No Hum or Spinning or attemping to start out of either of them. I will double check that I have power from both sides of the breaker... but I guess if all else fails off to a motor shop with them. Or I see if I can diagnose what is wrong myself on them and just get the parts from the motor shop to repair them. I have heard most times the problem is the start switch. or if the Start Windings are bad it would require a shop to repair them. usually I thought you would get some type of hum out of them though.

 

[Neura]

So I thought I would take some pics so everyone knows what I am talking about. The first 2 are how I got the compressor with the 3 Phase Motor and the plate on the 3 phase motor.

The next ones are of the leeson 5HP Single Phase Motor, the contactor with relay, the Pressure Switch, the 3HP Baldor and the Breaker Panel.

I figured this would be a pretty straight forward thing to just replace the 3 Phase motor with a Single Phase and be done with it. But I guess this is also what I get for being cheap and not buying a new 5HP Single Phase motor for it.

 

[Neura]

Got a chance to drop off both motors at the rewind shop today, they will let me know what they find and cost to fix them. The 3HP Baldor is an Explosion Proof motor so they said probably worth fixing it and it dosn't need to be certified again because it is only being used for the home shop. So once I get these things fixed I guess the nexst question is anyone know how to wire up that contactor properly for Single Phase??

 

[Tech1100]

Nuera,
There is much to consider when tring to swap from a 3ph motor to a 1 ph motor due to a 3hp 3phase 230v. motor (approx. 9.5 amps)pulls less than a 3hp 1phase 230v. motor(approx. 17 amps).

I am not familiar with that brand starter, but they are all basicly the same. Here is the basics to wire a single phase motor with a 3 phase 110v coil starter. There are many different control schemes.
Connect from 2p breaker to L1 and L3 on top of starter. T1 and T3 will go to the 220v. motor.
You will need to pull a neutral wire from the panel to one side of the 110v. coil. I cannot tell from the pictures what it is labeled as or where the actual connections are. Connect from L3 on top of starter to an on/off switch then to NO contacts on the pressure switch and back to the other side (hot side) of 110v. coil. When the switch is on and the pressure switch closes, it will energize the coil.(You can install or remove any devices in series with the hot side of the coil.)
To test the starter to see if it is wired right without the motor, disconnect T1 and T3).
You do not need LR2D13 overload block if the motor has an overload/reset button on it.
You can avoid using the starter if you can get a pressure switch that is rated for what the motor amperage is.

Tech1100

 

[Neura]

Finally got a chance top pick the motors up from the rewind shop. The 3HP Baldor was toasted and is now in the scrap yard. So I have the 5HP Leeson.

Rewind shop said nothing wrong with the 5HP Motor all caps tested good and they took it apart and couldn't find anything wrong with it. This is a Cap Start / Cap Run Motor so nothing else besides power should be needed for it.

So I tried to wire it up again this weekend and still do not get even a hum out of it. I have a 30AMP 2 Pole Breaker and 10/2 wired about 4 Meters to a Disconnect Switch. From the disconnect switch I wired in the pressure regulator and the pressure regulator to the motor.

The motor has 4 Wires, T1, T4, T5, T8. and a location for a ground screw. Anything I am missing from the setup to make this work?

When you have it all turned on it dosn't try to start the motor and dosnt trip the breaker at all. I have also replaced the breaker and all of the wiring and disconnect switch just to eliminate that. Lights and 115V circuits work in the garage but could it be an issue with the breaker panel itself and 230V? maybe a Ground problem at the motor?? Or do I need to be a contactor in place to make this motor work? according to the guy I got it from he never had a contactor or anything in place it was just hard wired. If I bypass the pressure switch and the disconnect and go direct to the breaker panel the motor dosnt seemt to work either....

 

[rocketman]

Do you have a multi-meter?? Check to make sure you actually have voltages to the contactors. Lots of guessing going on. Check your 2 hots to ground and make sure you have a reading on each.

Meter it out and know for sure.

 

[Gary S]

Here is the wiring diagram for the Leeson motor. If you wire it the way their chart shows, it should work.
http://www.a2zindustrialequipment.c.../details/index/staticcfm/adnum/1041926994.htm


Click on the tab marked "other".

 

[Aceman]

Do you have a multi-meter?? Check to make sure you actually have voltages to the contactors. Lots of guessing going on. Check your 2 hots to ground and make sure you have a reading on each.

Meter it out and know for sure.

I completely agree. Get a meter in there and get to the bottom of it.

 

[fatboy99]

Did the motor shop have it running ? if so they should be able to wire up a pig tail for the mag switch. try pulling the breaker out make sure the lug's arnt not on the same leg the neighbor had this problem on his surface planer didnt even know it could be done but he did it
Brad

 

[Neura]

Well I picked up a voltmeter today, Home Depot had the wrong price so I got it for $35. After testing everything I found that the problem was with the breaker in the main panel in the house to the sub panel in the garage. The breaker was installed on the same pole and the panel is pretty much maxed out so after I moved some singles around I was able to move it so it was on 2 poles and woohoo the compressor now works in the garage. Just debating now if I will put the contactor on this motor as it has start and run caps, and the pressure switch is now wired for 240.. I just have a manual disconnect in-line right now. and the motor is starting and stopping nicely.