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Air Cooled's Garage

air cooled

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Oct 19, 2011
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75
Location
South Chicago Suburbs
With the intention of being a resource to others, I am documenting my 3,360 square foot pole barn build. I have learned a lot from others on this site and would like to repay that favor.

I never realized how much time went into these write-ups until I did one myself, thanks again to all who have done so before me.

Note: I have done a TON of research on this site and others over the last year or so, however, please do your own due diligence as your situation may be different than mine, and I am a *****.
 
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air cooled

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
75
Location
South Chicago Suburbs
First things first -
When planning an outbuilding, one of the first steps you should take is to look at any rules or regulations that may affect the size, location, cost, etc., of your proposed structure. Some of these rules and regulations may be beyond your control but others may not. Knowing this will help separate your dreams from reality. Your county’s Land Use Department will have some of this information.

In September of 2015 I went to my county’s Land Use Department armed with the PIN from my property tax bill. They looked up my PIN and determined that my property is zoned E2 (Estate Residential). (Some of the rules that relate to E2 are discussed below).
I had visited the Land Use Department with the sole intention of gathering information, but before I knew it the employee started a building permit application for me.
He asked how big the building was going to be and, thinking he was just being conversational, I just threw out the dimensions 42’X80’. Next thing I knew he handed me a form with my basic information typed in and told me to go home and finish the rest. I had intended to go a little smaller in size but figured what the heck, one of the most repeated pieces of advice on GJ is to ‘go bigger.’

I paid $50 for the initial building permit application and a few dollars for a copy of my deed from the Recorder's office across the street.

I found that in my case I have some county regulations that relate to E2 property and some potential Homeowners Association (HOA) covenants.

My 4.9 acre plot is zoned E-2 (Estate Residential). This means my required setback is 20’, my maximum mean peak height is 20’, and the largest additional structure I can build is 1,800 square feet.

The 20’ setback is no problem as my property is clear enough and flat enough to allow me to stay at least 20’ away from my property line without any problems. However, the 20’ max mean peak height restriction and the 1,800 square foot size restriction will have to be addressed.

I want to put a 2-post lift in my garage so a 20’ max mean peak roof height means my walls can only 13’4” high with a 4/12 pitch. (I used the Ridge Height Calculator at http://www.pole-barn.info/roof-pitch.html). That is also why I didn’t want a shingled roof. A shingled roof sheds water and snow better, and also dries faster, with a higher pitch but that would make my mean roof peak higher and hit my max mean roof peak height restriction. This would require shorter walls, putting my plan for a 2-post lift in jeopardy. A steel roof will shed water and snow just fine with a 4/12 pitch, bringing the roof peak down and allowing my walls to be taller. (PS - I have a 1955 White 3000 COE truck that requires more ceiling height to lift.)

In my area, a piece of property the size of mine (4.9 acres) is allowed 3,000 square feet of outbuilding. That would be fine except they consider my existing attached four car garage part of the outbuilding allotment. My existing garage is around 1,200 square feet leaving me 1,800 square feet of the original 3,000 square feet for my barn.

I decided to address the mean roof peak height restriction and the outbuilding square footage restriction with a variance request. I need a variance to change the maximum accessory building area from 3,000 square feet to 4,560 square feet. The existing attached garage of 1,200 square feet plus the addition of a 3,360 square foot pole barn = 4,560 square feet. 3,000 square feet - 4,560 square feet = 1,560 square foot variance. (The variance process is addressed below).
 
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OP
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air cooled

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Messages
75
Location
South Chicago Suburbs
Above, I said ‘potential’ Homeowners Association (HOA) covenants because when my wife and I purchased this house we had to sign a form wherein we acknowledged receipt of the HOA rules for our development. However, in the 7 years we have lived in this house we have never paid HOA dues nor has there ever been a HOA meeting as far as I know. I dug up my HOA packet and tried to contact the listed developer of this neighborhood, but as far as I could tell after digging around on the internet, they are no longer in business. The same goes for the lawyer listed in the HOA packet.

Some of you may say that with a defunct HOA, or an HOA that was never started, I should just ignore the HOA rules and build whatever I want. However, there are two reasons why I wasn’t sure if that was a prudent course of action. First, I faced the potential risk, however slight, of someone who didn’t like the pole barn taking me to court and saying I broke some HOA covenant(s). Even though we don't have an HOA, the HOA covenants may still be legally binding. Secondly, one of my neighbors was building a pole barn several years ago and someone from the neighborhood, he doesn’t remember who, came by and told him it had to have a shingled roof according to the HOA covenants.

I decided the best way to prevent future hassles is to just tell my neighbors my plan and see if they care. I used wording directly from the HOA covenants to make up a form that every neighbor I have talked to so far has been willing to sign. So far I have been to 11 of the 20 houses on my street.
The form is as follows:

We, the undersigned, have no objection to a steel roof on the proposed barn of Mr. and Mrs. XXXX, located at XXXXX.
After speaking with XXXX about the general design and color scheme of the barn we feel the design, exterior and interior size, exterior shape, exterior construction materials or color scheme of the proposed building……is in harmony with the adjacent buildings, structures or the character of the Development and is not contrary to the spirit or intent of the conditions or restrictions of the covenants of XXXX Estates.


I don't expect the form to be legally binding, but it does show that I was not trying to pull a fast one.

Read this for ideas on how to get around your HOA. http://www.hindmansanchez.com/resources/article/avoiding-common-covenant-enforcement-defenses/
 
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air cooled

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Location
South Chicago Suburbs
Variance Process -
I picked up the application for the variance process while I was at the Land Use Department for my Building Permit application in September.

First, I had to complete the application
This wasn’t too difficult, under ‘Zoning request(s)’ I put “variance for accessory building area from 3,000 square feet to 4,560 square feet.”
Under ‘Purpose of request:’ I put “ Storage of RV, Boat and Personal Storage.
Would like to keep everything indoors and out of sight from the adjoining property owners.

I didn’t want to lay it on too thick but I also wanted the proposed pole barn to seem like a good idea to my neighbors.

Second, I already had a copy of my property deed.

Third, plat of survey and site plan.
I had to get my property surveyed so I could get a site plan showing the proposed location of my pole barn. Interestingly, if my proposed barn was 3,000 square feet or less, a site plan would not be required, just a base flood elevation by a professional engineer.
However, I hesitated to chop 5’ off the back of my barn but maybe I should have. It would have save me some money and time.
I hired the engineer listed on my existing site plan, thinking they might be cheaper because they did my original site plan but in retrospect I don't think it made a difference.
They took forever….90 days...to get done.
For $1,500 they did a site plan, an updated plat of survey and a topographical survey.
They also set some stakes marking the location of the pole barn and marked the base floor elevation.
The topographical survey was not required but we will use it next year when we address our landscaping, or lack thereof.

Fourth, post a notice in my yard of the upcoming variance hearing date and case number.
The sign must include my case number, be posted 14 days before the date of my hearing and be visible from the street.

Fifth, Mail a registered letter to each of the owners of record of the addresses that abut my property. As part of the variance process the Land Use Department provided me with the addresses of each of my adjoining property owners. Most of them I had already spoken with, but there were a few surprises. One lives across the paved street from me and the other was the HOA president of the neighboring development to the rear of my house.
I thought I would have to talk to the neighbor to the rear of my house, but not the entire HOA. To make matter worse that HOA is known to be wound pretty tight. I had to send registered letters to the six addresses the Land Use Department provided and keep the receipts for the variance hearing. These had to be mailed no later than 15 days from the date of my variance hearing and cost $41.76.
Fortunately I never heard a word from the adjoining HOA.

Sixth, I had to post a notice of my variance hearing in a local paper. This costs $42.00

Seventh, A sign off from the health department stating my proposed building would not affect my septic field. This costs $15.00 + $3.50 ‘service fee’ and took about a week.
They wanted my plat of survey showing where the existing septic field is (front yard) and where the proposed pole barn would be (back yard). They already had a copy of my septic system layout.

In December of 2015 I e-mailed the variance application for the increased outbuilding allowance along with the site plan and an updated plat of survey to the Land Use Department and got the variance process started. This cost $550 plus a $19.25 'convenience fee’.
In January of 2016 I added a variance request for the increased mean roof height from 20’ to 21’6” to my existing variance application. This cost $100 plus the $19.25 ‘convenience fee’. I wish I had thought of the increased mean roof height during the original variance application.

I read every thread on this forum with the word ‘variance’ in it and was prepared for quite an ordeal. I spoke to every neighbor whose property abuts mine, put together a ‘case file’ with photographs of my property and images from google earth showing the proposed location and size of the building, color schemes for the proposed building, photos from the internet of similar buildings, and generally tried to be as prepared as possible. I tried to be as generic as possible when talking to my adjacent property owners and when filling out the building permit and the variance application. I didn’t want to give anyone additional information to object to.
When I went to the variance hearing I had a lot more information to make my case but fortunately none of my neighbors objected, or even showed up.
What surprised me the most is that the county analyst that prepared my case for the variance hearing actually recommended approval of both my variance requests.
She said “....the requested variance for maximum accessory building area is proportionate to the lot area of the subject property.” and “...the requested variance for maximum accessory building height is proportionate to the height of the home on the property.” She also said “Large accessory structures are ubiquitous in the surrounding neighborhood. Furthermore, the proposed structure will not be visible from the right-of-way. It is the staff’s professional opinion that the variances, if granted, will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood.”

If you are worried about your variance request, it might be a good idea to go sit through several variance hearings to get a feel for what passes and what is rejected.
 
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Draven8795

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Aug 29, 2011
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That is some great information thanks for sharing it. What a joke on how much all that costs just to get some paper work filed. "Convenience fee."
 
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air cooled

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Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
75
Location
South Chicago Suburbs
The next big step is deciding what you want your barn to look like and getting bids from builders.
Keep in mind what you can afford to build as well as what you are 'allowed' (see above) to build.

This is where determining your actual budget is important.

Previously I indicated I received a variance for a 3,360 square foot barn of 42' X 80'.
This square footage can be allotted any way I want, more or less.
After talking to the builder we decided on a barn 40' X 80' (3,200 square feet) with the remaining 160 square feet in a 6' X 24' 'bumpout'.

This bumpout will contain the bathroom, office and utility room.

The bumpout helps make the building more rigid, look more residential and keeps the length equal to or less than twice the length.
Buildings where the length is more than twice the width can be structurally less stable.

As a side note, if the the roof eve (overhang) is more that 3’ it will count as part of the 3,360 square feet.
Additionally, any overhang requiring a pole support will be counted as part of the 3,360 square feet as well.

My area is serviced by Wick (WickBuildings.com), Morton (MortonBuildings.com), Cleary (ClearyBuilding.com), FBI (FBiBuildings.com), Lester (LesterBuildings.com), Menards (Menards.com), and several local builders.

I received price quotes from each of them.

I'll include more about the process of choosing a builder later.
 
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air cooled

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Messages
75
Location
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This is a partial scan of my property survey with elevations, proposed barn location and barn elevation.

View media item 62888
I didn't realize it at the time but the survey included a requirement for 635' of silt fence.
(indicated by the "---S---S---").
Because it was on the survey I had to actually install it.

Took an entire day to trench with a trencher, install the silt fence and back fill the trench.
Trenching 12" deep I was able to trench about 3' per minute.
The walk behind trencher is hard to steer and I should have laid out the silt fence so that there was a post in each corner.
As it happened I didn't plan that out and had to put metal stakes in each corner to hold the silt fence.

It rained that night and fortunately the builder was able to help me back fill some of the trench with his skid steer the next morning.

Elsewhere on my property survey were details for the instillation of the silt fence, like 5' spacing between fence posts, 18" minimum post embedment and 6" minimum filter fabric embedment.

Menards and a concrete supply company near me had silt fence but it only had posts every 10'.
I installed it anyway and it passed inspection

And yes, I did have to get the silt fence instillation inspected and signed off by the county inspector. They have to come back and inspect the fence after every 2" of rain if I remember correctly.

The annoying thing is, the only place any dirt exposed by the building process could go is further onto my property. It couldn't flow uphill to affect any of my neighbors.

I also hit my neighbors gas line in the last 2' of trenching. :shocking:
The annoying thing is, she had a current dig permit from Julie and the flags marking her gas line were still on her lawn, 30' away.
While my dig permit was out of date by a week or so, the paint marks indicating the location of my gas line were still visible on my driveway, 40' away.
I got hit with a repair bill for $ 408.80 that was reduced to $ 250 after I called and complained.....politely.

Silt fence was $ 26.40 per 3' X 100' roll (including tax) X 6 rolls = $ 158.40
My builder had a walk behind trencher he rented me for $ 150 for as long as I needed it.

I got by with 6 rolls for 600' instead of the specified 635'.
Inspector either didn't notice or didn't care.
 
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jp828108

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Jun 28, 2011
Messages
484
Location
Ohio
Wow! Sounds like a crazy process to build a building. I would not look forward to navigating that. Subscribing for updates.
 
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air cooled

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Joined
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Messages
75
Location
South Chicago Suburbs
Before I could have the pad prepared I had to pay $4,600 to get a bond from the County Road Commissioner. :eek:
This is to cover any damage the excavating company does to the county roads while hauling clay to my property.
This will be refunded to me if no damage is inflicted.

Pad Preparation = $ 9,803
... Supply and install clay for building pad $ 5,000
...Additional 10’ apron around pad $ 2,500
... Driveway prep and stone $ 1,950
...Stone apron in front of barn $ 400

It ended up taking 56 loads of clay :eek:, and 115 tons of stone.
Fortunately the clay was very close to my house or my price would have been double.

Silt fence in, approximate building location staked out, height of building pad marked and future driveway marked.
View media item 62918
Topsoil cleared off and put in a pile.
View media item 62919
Several loads of clay brought in, leveled and compacted.
'Road mix' (gravel with fines)(CA6) for driveway and apron is also visible.
The gravel driveway is 12' wide and 8" thick.
This will be asphalt or concrete at a later date.
View media item 62917
 
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OP
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air cooled

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Messages
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Antoine, I do have some older VW's and other stuff I hope to cram in my new garage once it is finished.
I hope this building allows me to transition from a hoarder to a collector.
I'll include some photos later.
 
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air cooled

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Before I get too far into describing my build, I should mention how I chose my builder.

In post #8 above I mentioned my area is serviced by Wick (WickBuildings.com), Morton (MortonBuildings.com), Cleary (ClearyBuilding.com), FBI (FBiBuildings.com), Lester (LesterBuildings.com), Menards (Menards.com), and several local builders.

After doing quite a bit of research I came to a few conclusions:

- Each of these companies is well established and has several good quality pole barns in my area.
In fact, any time I drove by a pole barn I would pull in, introduce myself and check out the building. Owners are more than happy to talk about their barn. ;)

- Each of these companies does something a little different that they claim sets them apart from other builders.

- Sometimes you are buying from a dealer (like Wick) and sometimes you are buying directly from the builder (like Lester). This may or may not affect warranty claims in the future.

- Each of these companies outsources some of their work, like gutters and/or ceiling insulation and/or overhead doors, etc.

- The crew that builds your pole barn is more important than who supplies your pole barn 'kit.'
 
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air cooled

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South Chicago Suburbs
Some examples of how each pole barn company is a little different:

Cleary Makes their own trusses in house, uses 2X6 wall girts instead of the more common 2X4, uses three non-spliced 2X6s for their columns (continuous from dirt footing to roof) treated all the way up, and uses Fabral paint on 29 gauge 80,000 psi or 26 gauge 40,000 psi steel.

FBI Makes their own trusses in house, prefer 8' on center columns and back fills the holes with gravel instead of dirt. They use Kynar paint on 29 gauge 85,000 psi steel made by McElroy Steelin Wisconsin and their standard roof pitch is 3.5/12 instead of the slightly steeper 4/12.

Lester Makes their own trusses in house, prefer 10' on center columns, use finger jointed columns treated to just above dirt level, back fills the holes with dirt and rolls their own 29 gauge 100,000 psi steel finished in siliconized polyester paint. They also make their own screws and a 4/12 roof pitch is standard.
 
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air cooled

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Messages
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Location
South Chicago Suburbs
Some questions to ask your builder:


Are the columns continuous or finger jointed?
In my search only Cleary used continuous columns that were also treated all the way up.

Are the columns treated all the way up or just partially treated for soil contact?

What is the minimum hole depth? (4' minimum is standard in my area)

What is the minimum hole width? (2' minimum diameter is standard in my area)

Is the hole back filled with dirt or with gravel?
Some say back filling with gravel packs harder but others say it creates a 'sump' for
water to collect.

Concrete Perma-columns are also an option www.permacolumn.com/
If you do back fill with dirt you should water the dirt as you backfill and periodically after the holes are filled to help the dirt settle.

What size is the concrete 'cookie' at the bottom of the hole?
There are recommended sizes, and the end wall cookies may be a different size than
the long wall cookies.
Some builders pour a few bags of concrete in the hole and claim this cookie conforms to the hole better.


Is an uplift block attached to the column embedded in the dirt/gravel.
(You should insist on this)

Are the trusses made in house or outsourced?

What are the truss specifications?
Mine have a 2X10 top chord, a 2X10 bottom chord and 2X4 web bracing.
Lester proposed a 2X6 bottom chord.
If they are made in house they may be able to alter their trusses per your specifications.

Truss load ratings?
This may be different in your area but mine have a 33 pounds per square foot total load (psf), a 25 psf live load and a 2 psf dead load.

Are the trusses 8', 9' or 10' on center.

What is your roof pitch?
Mine is 4/12 which is common around here.

Are the roof trusses nailed or bolted to the columns.
If I remember correctly, each builder proposed using a saddle truss connection and double bolting the trusses to the columns.

Is an attic catwalk included?
You will need several catwalks in the attic of at least 2X4 construction for the workers to move around in the attic and install the blown in insulation.
 
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OP
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air cooled

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Messages
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Location
South Chicago Suburbs
What size are the wall girts?
2X4 vs. 2X6
The exterior wall girts may be different in size and/or spacing from the interior wall girts.

What is the spacing of the exterior wall girts?
The exterior wall girts should be spaced fairly evenly for aesthetic reasons but a wainscot may interrupt this spacing.
Around here 26" to 36" on center is the max spacing.


Are the wall girts screwed or nailed to the columns?

Are the wall girts bookend, overlapped on edge or butted flat?
If they are overlapped, what is the amount of overlap?

What is the size and composition of the splash plank?
The bottom wall girt is called the splash plank and can be composite or treated wood.

What size are the roof purlins?
2X4 is fairly standard.

What is the spacing of the roof purlins?
24" on center is fairly standard but this may have to be adjusted if you install a continuous ridge vent.

Are the roof purlins screwed or nailed to the trusses?

Are the roof purlins bookended, overlapped or butted together?
If they are overlapped, what is the amount of overlap and how is the overlap attached?
 
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air cooled

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Is the exterior steel (roof and siding) made in house?

What it the gauge and psi of the steel?

What is the major and minor rib spacing of the steel?

What kind of paint is applied?

Are custom closure strips available?

Are the roof panels screwed in the ridges or in the flat?

What kind of attic ventilation is available?

Are all exterior trim pieces available?

Are continuous color matched gutters available?
 
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air cooled

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Do you supply the walk doors and windows or are they outsourced?

What are my door and window options?
Looks and r-value.

Do you supply the overhead doors or are they outsourced?
Looks and r-value.
 
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air cooled

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What is the warranty for roof leaks?

What is the warranty for workmanship?

What is the warranty for column decay and insects?

What is the exterior steel paint warranty?

What is the wind warranty?

Is the builder licensed and insured?

What about builders risk insurance?

What about liability insurance?
 
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