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Air coupler types

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spectre6000

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The 4 cfm numbers are normally a weighted average over a very low duty cycle. A die grinder, 1/2" impact wrench, or air hammer can easily use 30+ cfm while running.
This would be but a facet of my ignorance. My air hammer (IR 119MAX) says it uses 23.8cfm under load ("Air Consumption @ Load (cfm)"). Is this that same weighted average spec, or is Husky playing even weirder number games than expected ("Air consumption at recommended operating pressure (CFM)")?
 
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spectre6000

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Updates: (I'll just edit this post as the additional videos become available)

Test 2: Merlin Industrial coupler/plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10CFM.
Test 3: Merlin Industrial coupler/plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 20CFM.
Test 4: Prevost High Flow safety coupler, Milton V-Style plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10CFM.
Test 5: Prevost High Flow safety coupler, Milton V-Style plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 20CFM.
Test 4 link is no good.
 

Keep

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Not sure about all the tests, but the seat of the pants usage test tells me, get the Milton V connectors and go with it. Your Impacts will like it, your die grinders will like it, you HVLP guns will really like it. Hell even your blow guns will like it.

I switched from standard Milton 1/4 fittings to the V style and it made a huge difference.
 

Wiz02

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I suspected that the pressure drop would be more pronounced at higher flow rates and you would start to see benefits of the hi flow Prevost coupler at the higher flows. Test 4 is proving out this theory. Now how far do you go with higher flow rates?

Also, I see 3/8" and I think 1/2" threaded couplers for sale, which would add an interesting dimension to your testing, but I haven't seen an air tool for automotive applications that isn't 1/4" thread. Maybe a blasting cabinet? But why not hard plumb it?
 

GeoBruin

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I don't imagine a home gamer is going to be running more than a single tool at a time. I noticed that most, if not all, of the air tools at Home Depot want in the neighborhood of (if not exactly) 4 cfm. Seems like it must be some sort of benchmark they're trying to hit. Maybe that's a bad assumption. My guess was that it was correlated to what home gamer compressors were able to produce based on the labels on that side of the same aisle. Yes, home gamers CAN have massive rigs, but most have pancakes.

Regardless, if we get at least 3 flow rates (i.e. 5, 10, 20) we can try to fit a curve. More data points means a more accurate curve, and then we have ALL the flow rates below where the above chart leaves off at the bottom of the range.

My hypothesis (and I typed this out previously, but never posted... I've been sick... which might help explain other lapses should there be any) is that below 10 cfm, with high quality couplers (i.e. Stedlin and Prevost), the ****** style (industrial/high flow) won't make a difference. If the Merlin coupler (which Stedlin demonstrated creates a greater pressure differential than the Stedlin coupler using the same ****** profile) only drops 1 psi, I'll bet there's zero difference between industrial and high flow below some higher-than-most-home-gamers-will-ever-practically-use flow rate thresh hold.
All the tests I can perform without changing the flow meter out have been linked in post # 32.
 
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spectre6000

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Edit: refreshed again. Links appeared.

Stedlin + industrial is the missing link. Stedlin only sells the Quietplug anymore, and at $10/ea, since it works with industrial profile, that seems like the way it would be used in my shop at least, as well as what a lot of people on GJ seem to be doing. Plus, according to Stedlin's videos, the QC is the likely restriction in those first two, and the question is more about industrial vs. high flow.
 
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spectre6000

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Thinking about it over dinner, I didn't realize you had a Stedlin high flow ******. Stedlin/Stedlin high flow vs. Stedlin/industrial would really pull all the variables out and get it right down to JUST the orifice size, and at what flow rate it comes into play. What's the difference in ID between Stedlin high flow and Milton-V?
 
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spectre6000

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Summarizing videos from post 32:

Merlin/Industrial @ 90psi static, 10cfm ===============> ~1psi
Merlin/Industrial @ 90psi, 10cfm ====================> ~1psi
Merlin/Industrial @ 90psi, 20cfm ====================> ~9psi
Prevost/Milton-V @ 90psi, 10cfm ====================> ~1psi
Prevost/Milton-V @ 90psi, 20cfm ====================> ~1psi
Stedlin/Stedlin Full Flow @ 90psi, 10cfm ==============> ~1psi
Stedlin/Stedlin Full Flow @ 90psi, 20cfm ==============> ~2psi
Stedlin/Industrial @ 90psi, 10cfm ====================> ~1psi
Stedlin/Industrial @ 90psi, 20cfm ====================> ~5psi
Stedlin/0.25 Industrial @ 90psi, 10cfm ================> ~1psi
Stedlin/0.25 Industrial @ 90psi, 20cfm ================> ~2psi
Stedlin/Stedlin Full Flow + Merlin swivel @ 90 psi, 10cfm ==> ~5psi (w/ quiver)
Stedlin/Stedlin Full Flow + Merlin swivel @ 90 psi, 20cfm ==> ~11psi (w/ quiver)
Stedlin/Stedlin Full Flow + Stedlin Orbital @ 90 psi, 10cfm => ~1psi
Stedlin/Stedlin Full Flow + Stedlin Orbital @ 90 psi, 20cfm => ~5psi

Instantaneous consumption (~90psi):
Die Grinder angled = ~23cfm (4cfm advertised)
Die Grinder straight = ~27cfm (4cfm advertised)
Needle Scaler = 19cfm (3cfm advertised)
Band File = ~29cfm (4cfm advertised)
 
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GeoBruin

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Thinking about it over dinner, I didn't realize you had a Stedlin high flow ******. Stedlin/Stedlin high flow vs. Stedlin/industrial would really pull all the variables out and get it right down to JUST the orifice size, and at what flow rate it comes into play. What's the difference in ID between Stedlin high flow and Milton-V?
Your wish is my command. New videos linked in post #32
 

GeoBruin

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Well, it looks like I've maxed out the number of "edits" allowable in a 24 hour period (who knew that was a thing?) so I can't add a link to Test 11 in post #32 yet, but here it is for now. I'll update the other post later.
 
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spectre6000

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I updated post #49 with the summarized findings to match.

What's the ID of the Milton-V fittings?

Stroke of genius drilling out the industrial fitting! Stedlin Full Flow to Industrial to 0.25 bored industrial all in the same coupler eliminates the restrictions from the coupler from the equation and really gets down to just the orifice size's contribution to flow restriction. Said restriction comes into play somewhere between 10 and 20CFM (likely on the high side given the magnitude) until you get to whatever the Milton-V orifice size is. We don't actually know at what flow rate yet the Milton-V starts to become a restriction.

That seems to be the next step along the line. At what CFM does the Milton-V start to become a restriction, and what is the restriction of the other two/three at that same flow rate?
 

Stedlin

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The Milton V is based on the CEJN 320 profile.

The design was only intended to be used in safety couplers.

The plug bore standard size is 7.4 MM or .291”.

In my opinion it’s overkill for air systems using 1/4” NPT connections.

It shouldn’t be used in non safety couplers.

I lost all the hearing in my left ear because of a “V style” being disconnected at 150PSI.

The only real advantage is in HVLP systems.

I created the Stedlin Full Flow plug to fill the gap between the 3/16” common standards and the “oversized” .291” plugs. The bore is .243”.
 
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GeoBruin

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I knew it wouldn't take long for Mr. Stedlin himself to show up. It's like if you say his name 3 time, he just appears!

Stedlin, it looks like the full flow plugs aren't currently available on your website. Have you discontinued them?
 
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spectre6000

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@GeoBruin, a special request if you're still taking them and have one lying around: Torque Test Channel tested a variety of swivels a while back. The worst performer was the block style, which is more or less to be expected. That was with industrial plugs through a big impact, and through the lens of torque applied to a fastener. I'm curious what restrictions there are turning those corners through high flow fittings at the tested flow rates. If you don't have a block swivel, PM me.
 

Chance

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Updates: (I'll just edit this post as the additional videos become available)

Test Rig Explanation + Baseline Test: Merlin Industrial coupler/plug, 90 PSI static pressure, 10CFM.
Test 2: Merlin Industrial coupler/plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10CFM.
Test 3: Merlin Industrial coupler/plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 20CFM.
Test 4: Prevost High Flow safety coupler, Milton V-Style plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10CFM.
Test 5: Prevost High Flow safety coupler, Milton V-Style plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 20CFM.
Test 6: Stedlin Quick Connect Coupler, Stedlin Full Flow plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10 CFM.
Test 7: Stedlin Quick Connect Coupler, Stedlin Full Flow plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 20 CFM.
Test 8: Stedlin Quick Connect Coupler, Merlin Industrial plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10CFM.
Test 9: Stedlin Quick Connect Coupler, Merlin Industrial plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 20 CFM.
"Highly technical" modification to Merlin industrial plug.
Test 10: Stedlin Quick Connect Coupler, modified Merlin Industrial plug, 90 PSI dynamic pressure, 10 CFM.
Your tests are right up there with the TorqueTest Channel! Nice to see amateur science in action! (y)
 
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GeoBruin

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Your test are right up there with the TorqueTest Channel on youtube
Thanks for that. It's actually pretty surprising they haven't done a similar test considering all the air tools they test.
 

GeoBruin

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So what is a "safety coupler" ?
Good question. It has a button on it you must press before it will decouple. The button reseases the pressure but it retains the plug, preventing it from flying out of the coupler. You can then pull the plug out safely.

There might be more to it but I admittedly handled my first one yesterday.
 

Chance

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Good question. It has a button on it you must press before it will decouple. The button reseases the pressure but it retains the plug, preventing it from flying out of the coupler. You can then pull the plug out safely.

There might be more to it but I admittedly handled my first one yesterday.
Seems like a good idea. I use the Milton V plugs, so I'll look into into it. Maybe those Prevost ones you tested.
 

GeoBruin

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@GeoBruin, a special request if you're still taking them and have one lying around: Torque Test Channel tested a variety of swivels a while back. The worst performer was the block style, which is more or less to be expected. That was with industrial plugs through a big impact, and through the lens of torque applied to a fastener. I'm curious what restrictions there are turning those corners through high flow fittings at the tested flow rates. If you don't have a block swivel, PM me.
Swivel tests are up. Plus some extras.
 
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spectre6000

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This is so much solid gold! I mentioned earlier that I learned in this thread that the actual consumption of an individual tool was not what was on the box. Seeing it demonstrated so clearly like that really drives the point home! Instantaneous consumption is NOT an advertised spec just about anywhere. I wonder why?

@GeoBruin , you have a handful of Stedlins and now a Prevost. What do you think of the two of them in comparison?
 

GeoBruin

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This is so much solid gold! I mentioned earlier that I learned in this thread that the actual consumption of an individual tool was not what was on the box. Seeing it demonstrated so clearly like that really drives the point home! Instantaneous consumption is NOT an advertised spec just about anywhere. I wonder why?

@GeoBruin , you have a handful of Stedlins and now a Prevost. What do you think of the two of them in comparison?
Hey, sorry for the late follow up.

That's a tough one, especially since my tests primarily featured Stedlin full flow plugs which are apparently not sold anymore. So the options for a Stedlin Quick Change Coupler are the Stedlin quiet plugs, standard industrial plus, or "modified" industrial plugs.

I will say that I had been taking for granted how easily the Stedlin coupler/plugs connect and disconnect. It's so easy it's almost funny. After plugging and unplugging the standard plugs and especially the high flow plugs for this test, I don't know that I would want to go back just because it seems like a step backward in that regard.

Also, the Prevost coupler is much bigger and heavier heavier than the Stedlin. I'm talking over 50% longer, 30% wider, and 4 times the weight (see image below). It feels like I'm holding a medieval weapon when it's dangling from the end of the hose. That said, it's obviously built like a tank and the aluminum Stedlin is already showing some wear. I'm just a guy in his garage, not some auto shop where it's getting dropped on concrete many times a day, but I could see the Stedlin getting pretty chewed up over time.

As for flow, I think we showed that at reasonable flow rates, the difference between the Stedlin Coupler with a full flow plug and the Prevost with the high flow plug is probably minimial. I think the Stedlin coupler/plug gets me about where I need to be for nearly all my tools. I've done less formal versions of these tests before as I was setting up my rapidair system just to see where I was at and even at the end of my hose reel, I'm not experiencing so much drop I can't compensate for it by cranking the pressure at the reg. I also keep a shorter 1/2" hose on hand so I can bypass the 50' 3/8 hose I usually use if I feel like I need the headroom. That hose certainly accounts for waaay more pressure drop than whatever's on the end of it. I'm also not running a big 3/4 impact or some other such tools that probably deserves 3/8" fittings anyway.

Paying 3 bucks and change for a box of 10 V-style plugs certainly makes the High Flow ecosystem seem like there's a low barrier to entry. Looking back at my amazon history, it seems I paid anywhere between $8 and $10 per plug for the Stedlins, so that would add up quickly if you have lots of tools. That said, we've shown you can get almost the same performance with modified industrial plugs, so if you're willing to put in the "work", you could neutralize that side of the cost equation. I have not experimented with the connect/disconnect force using the Stedlin Coupler and generic industrial plugs (I'm 100% certain he has), but I suspect it's somewhere in between a Stedlin Coupler with a Stedlin Plug, and a standard coupler with a standard plug.

Anyway, that's a lot of "opinions" but I suppose I'm owed a few after trying to post some hard evidence. Now that I own a Prevost coupler and a bunch of plugs, I'm going to swap over my main hose reel for a while and see what my longer term impressions are. The one issue I've had with the Prevost coupler already is that at one point, I somehow managed to not fully insert a tool into the coupler to the point it locked, but it still started flowing. I mashed that button for all it was worth but it wouldn't budge and, being all the way across the shop from the shut off valve, I ended up just shoving the tool back in (against the force of all that air, which was no easy feat) until it seated and sealed. It was a little scary, but I haven't been able to repeat it, so I'll chock it up to a fluke for now.

Hope this helps!
 

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