Air drying system questions for your air compressor.

[fordkid88]

Im starting to do a multipart air drying system for my air compressor. I'm almost done with stage one I'm just waiting on 4 more fans and a 12v power supply but I have a radiator plumbed between the pump and the tank with a moisture trap right after the radiator. That seems to have made a major improvement.

My first question is electrical. My compressor is 230v. I have 2 hot legs and 1 ground. Can I run another line through the conduit into the neutral bus bar and wire a 110v power supply with one of the hot legs coming from the pressure switch so when the air compressor kicks on it turns the power supply for the fans on.


My second question is would I see any benefit to adding another water trap to the drain valve. I've added a 90 out with a ball valve and I'm wondering if I add a water trap before the ball value will it collect the water that would naturally sit at the bottom of the tank or will the water not go anywhere because there is no real flow unless you crack the valve.

My third question is about copper manifolds with drain values. I'd like to add one but I know the further from the tank the better and the larger the tubing the better to prevent friction and heating the tubing up. What's the shortest distance I could work with. I'd like it to close to the tank while still be effective so my whole air system could benefit.

 

[GeoBruin]

Not to burst your bubble but you've already got a big 240 volt, 5 horsepower fan built in to your compressor (hint... It's the one that is also acting as the pulley on your pump). It has fan blades on it so it can blow air over the pump. Most cooler designs like this just place the radiator up against the fan/pulley shroud and let it draw air across the radiator.

I don't know what kind of 12V computer type fans you've got but it's hard to imagine they'll move more air than the pump fan/pulley. And then, of course, you have the issue of needing to power them. Can you pull on one leg of the 240 circuit? Yes, but it it's not good for it. Again, I don't know how much current you're drawing for your fans, but you're creating an imbalanced load on one leg. I'll stop here as I'm sure others may have a more informed answer on your electrical question.

Regarding your second question, you can certainly do that but it seems like an expensive solution. If you want a little reservoir to catch the water at the bottom of the tank, just use an short length of pipe or hose. You don't need the coellessing/filtering capability of a of a water trap because it's just a drain.

Regarding a manifold, I would wait until you get your aftercooler plumbed in and tested. The air coming out of my aftercooler is also ambient temperature. If yours is similar, passing ambient temperature air through a manifold surrounded by ambient temperature air isn't going to do much in the way of heat exchange. If your air is still coming out hotter, or if you live in a cold place where the ambient temp is still much lower, there is still some benefit.

You are correct when you say the "further from the tank the better" but that just means pipe length. Physical distance is irrelevant, and in fact the point of a manifold is to simulate having a bunch of pipe in your distribution system so they are quite often right after the compressor.

 

[fordkid88]

Not to burst your bubble but you've already got a big 240 volt, 5 horsepower fan built in to your compressor (hint... It's the one that is also acting as the pulley on your pump). It has fan blades on it so it can blow air over the pump. Most cooler designs like this just place the radiator up against the fan/pulley shroud and let it draw air across the radiator.

I don't know what kind of 12V computer type fans you've got but it's hard to imagine they'll move more air than the pump fan/pulley. And then, of course, you have the issue of needing to power them. Can you pull on one leg of the 240 circuit? Yes, but it it's not good for it. Again, I don't know how much current you're drawing for your fans, but you're creating an imbalanced load on one leg. I'll stop here as I'm sure others may have a more informed answer on your electrical question.

Regarding your second question, you can certainly do that but it seems like an expensive solution. If you want a little reservoir to catch the water at the bottom of the tank, just use an short length of pipe or hose. You don't need the coellessing/filtering capability of a of a water trap because it's just a drain.

Regarding a manifold, I would wait until you get your aftercooler plumbed in and tested. The air coming out of my aftercooler is also ambient temperature. If yours is similar, passing ambient temperature air through a manifold surrounded by ambient temperature air isn't going to do much in the way of heat exchange. If your air is still coming out hotter, or if you live in a cold place where the ambient temp is still much lower, there is still some benefit.

You are correct when you say the "further from the tank the better" but that just means pipe length. Physical distance is irrelevant, and in fact the point of a manifold is to simulate having a bunch of pipe in your distribution system so they are quite often right after the compressor.

Thanks for the input, you're not bursting my bubble. My initial idea was to go that route, but my compressor has that really crappy plastic shroud so between whole lot of extra fab work and messing around to mount it close and maintain a cover of some sort I went the easy route and did this. The fans do not draw lot of power and they're will 8 of them pressed closely to the radiator in a push pull configuration.

With four fans currently it drops the temp significantly, but most likely not close to what the pump fan would do.

I do have a 6" ****** coming from the bottom of the tank before the shot off valve already.

Alright I will hold off on the manifold until I do a couple more runs on my burn table and evaluate from the consumable wear.

 

[rdoty]

When I did my aftercooler I used a 220V fan - uxcell Cooling Fan 200mm x 200mm x 60mm FP-20060EX-S1-B AC 220V/240V 0.45A Dual Ball Bearings. Reasonable price, under $40, and moves a lot of air. Works great with a Hayden 1290 oil cooler.

I also did a down leg after the aftercooler and put a float type automatic drain on in. Works great and trouble free.

 

[GeoBruin]

Thanks for the input, you're not bursting my bubble. My initial idea was to go that route, but my compressor has that really crappy plastic shroud so between whole lot of extra fab work and messing around to mount it close and maintain a cover of some sort I went the easy route and did this. The fans do not draw lot of power and they're will 8 of them pressed closely to the radiator in a push pull configuration.

With four fans currently it drops the temp significantly, but most likely not close to what the pump fan would do.

I do have a 6" ****** coming from the bottom of the tank before the shot off valve already.

Alright I will hold off on the manifold until I do a couple more runs on my burn table and evaluate from the consumable wear.

Hey, following up to say a couple things:

1) Reading my response again now it's obvious my tone was a little patronizing, so I wanted to apologize for that right out of the gate. You took the time to make a long, detailed post looking for information and you didn't deserve any sass.

2) Looking at your compressor shroud, I can see how it would be more difficult to directly mount a cooler and why it could have discouraged you from doing so. I was lucky in that my compressor has a nice steel cage and to this day, my cooler remains zip tied to the cage because that was the easiest and most effective way to do it.

That said, my first thought in your situation would have been to fab some brackets rather than wire up 8 separate DC motors but that just speaks to my preference for/proficiency at metal fabrication over electrical work.

3) After thinking about it, a water trap after your drain plug might be useful if you want to measure how much water is actually getting caught in your tank if you're trying to assess the efficacy of your aftercooler. You'll need one that doesn't auto drain to achieve that however.

If you have/use a plasma cutter, I'm sure you've heard about motorguard filters. I don't know how much (if any) length of pipe you have between your compressor and your plasma, but I have a motorguard filter as the last element before mine to take care of any aerosolized moisture left in the line at that point.

Let us know what you wind up doing.

 

[fordkid88]

Hey, following up to say a couple things:

1) Reading my response again now it's obvious my tone was a little patronizing, so I wanted to apologize for that right out of the gate. You took the time to make a long, detailed post looking for information and you didn't deserve any sass.

2) Looking at your compressor shroud, I can see how it would be more difficult to directly mount a cooler and why it could have discouraged you from doing so. I was lucky in that my compressor has a nice steel cage and to this day, my cooler remains zip tied to the cage because that was the easiest and most effective way to do it.

That said, my first thought in your situation would have been to fab some brackets rather than wire up 8 separate DC motors but that just speaks to my preference for/proficiency at metal fabrication over electrical work.

3) After thinking about it, a water trap after your drain plug might be useful if you want to measure how much water is actually getting caught in your tank if you're trying to assess the efficacy of your aftercooler. You'll need one that doesn't auto drain to achieve that however.

If you have/use a plasma cutter, I'm sure you've heard about motorguard filters. I don't know how much (if any) length of pipe you have between your compressor and your plasma, but I have a motorguard filter as the last element before mine to take care of any aerosolized moisture left in the line at that point.

Let us know what you wind up doing.

No problem, no offense was taken. These are pressure vessels and not something to messed with. I've welded plenty of stainless steel for air lines and steam and I still dont like it.

My main reason for keeping the shroud stock is that my wife and little guy are in the shop all of them time and I was looking to keep as safe as possible.

The wiring part took minutes and was not really a problem. I did speak with our head of maintenance and the first thing he said was that I could potentially unbalance the legs and could do damage to switch and risk serious injury. So before I continued we got the specs for everything. The switch is rated for 26 amps, the motor under full load is 17 and the fan array is only 1.2 amps. He told me I should be fine but I'm now looking into a solid state relay instead with no real power draw to accomplish the same thing.

As far as the water trap before the drain valve was to have a collection point at the bottom of the tank at its lowest point where it would sit and not rust the tank and still give me a visible indicator of moisture.

I've never heard of motorgaurd filter but I will be looking into that. I have about 70 feet of hose before the cutter with another moisture trap at the end but I don't think it does really much of anything.

Thanks again for the input and suggestions.

 

[steel 35]

I read some where 30' Minimum, Copper line, Must have trusted them I used that & a Motoguard filter just before my Hyperbox!
Also have a auto tank purge with adjustable timer.

 

[cvairwerks]

You need to support that cooler, or you will get some excitement when one of the copper lines fails due to fatigue....

 

[fordkid88]

I read some where 30' Minimum, Copper line, Must have trusted them I used that & a Motoguard filter just before my Hyperbox!
Also have a auto tank purge with adjustable timer.

30 feet sounds reasonable, wouldn't take much to come to that length. I'm Thinking of doing 1" lines but I need to do some research on pressure ratings.

You need to support that cooler, or you will get some excitement when one of the copper lines fails due to fatigue....

It is, it's just hard to see. I have a cut and formed bracket. Now that it's finalized I'm got to throw in a gusset or two and solder a link between the upper and lower line to stiffen it up.

 

[TdK71]

You can check out my setup that I recently finished here:
Air Compressor Build Post

 

[pcmeiners]

"30 feet sounds reasonable, wouldn't take much to come to that length. I'm Thinking of doing 1" lines but I need to do some research on pressure ratings."

If your thinking copper@1", have some nitrobid with you when you price it; roughly $64 per length. For that size compressor 1" is way overboard, use 3/4" at most, get full flow valves and use long radius sweeps.