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air duct sizing, 30x40 detached shop

misterfixit

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Feb 9, 2013
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199
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Kaufman Texas
I would like to ask for some 2nd opinions on duct sizing.
I have a 30x40 metal building, concrete slab with spray foam insulation. In this 1200' space I have 24x30 that is open floor to ceiling to use as woodworking area, and the remaining 16x30 area which is divided into 3 rooms. 2 rooms are 16x10 and the center room is 12x10. You can see the actual photo below:
20210307_175646.jpg

looking at the photo, the room on the right which is open the full width is to be grinding/sanding/blasting area for dirty work. The center room will house my lathe and milling machine. and the left room will be desk, soldering and other 'clean' work. The clean room on the left and the center room will have the clear strip doors like a cooler, the right room will be open at all times. Above these rooms is where my central heat/ac unit will be.
My AC unit was purchased through a friend who has an AC business, and he has been serving as a free source of information. He suggested I get a 3 ton system, which I did and have on hand. He has agreed to come out after I get it installed and sweat the lines and commission the unit for me and I will be paying him for that work. I'm not paying him, as per our friendly arrangement and agreement, for telling me what size ducts to use. He did give me a list of suggested duct and registers to use.
My issue is I'm not sure I agree with his suggestions, and since he's doing this part for free I don't want to argue with him and tell him I think he's wrong unless I'm pretty sure he is. But from past experience (installing AC in my Barndomium) and research I think he's off.

Here's my calculations:
3 ton system, should average 1200 CFM
30x40 building =1200 sqft which means 1 cfm/sq ft
16x24 open area should get 720 cfm
middle room is 12x10 should get 120 cfm
the 2 rooms on either side are 16x10, should get 160 CFM each
that all equals 1160 CFM, which when you look at the 4x10 inset outside the middle room makes it all fit.

It looks to me like each of the rooms would work with 8" flex duct, which by my research should deliver 150 CFM.

His suggestion for the rooms is a 7" duct and register in the larger rooms, and a 6" in the middle.

For the larger room/area, and based on the remaining CFM from the unit, it looks to me like I should take off from the plenum with about a 14" flex then possibly wye to a 14x10x10, taking two 10" ducts to registers at the edge of the mezzanine.

His suggestion was for a 10" from the plenum and wye into two 8".

It looks to me like he has undersized the ducting. Before I go back to him I want to make sure I understand what I think I understand.

All help and suggestions are appreciated.

Edited to add: There are no return air ducts. The return is at the unit itself above the rooms, using the 20x20 return on the air handler alone.

Edited again to add: this is a 3 ton Goodman system using an ARUF37C14AD air handler
 
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Black Oak

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Aug 6, 2013
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black oak arkansas
I know nothing on HVAC , but I would not use any "flex" ducting unless forced to . It's a CFM killer , I'd use solid ducting only . Just my 2 cents .
 
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misterfixit

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Kaufman Texas
Why would you not use it? Flex duct is very widely used. Just like any other duct it has it's own friction loss numbers, which may be more than metal. But it's just a case of using the proper sizing taking that into account.
 

Bert_

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NW Iowa
Why would you not use it? Flex duct is very widely used. Just like any other duct it has it's own friction loss numbers, which may be more than metal. But it's just a case of using the proper sizing taking that into account.
Flex isn't bad necessarily. But it's really easy to install badly. Too many bends, kinked, not pulled tight / droopy.

Bigger duct work is better than smaller. Less static pressure.
 

Yankeefarmer

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Location
Connecticut
I agree with your conclusions. I would suggest though, if you can, that you run the ducts for the big room beyond the mezzanine edge. As soon as the air leaves the ductwork, it will slow down and try to return to the return. You want to have enough “throw” to get it close to that end wall. Have you decided to use flex duct because it will be insulated and you have condensation concerns? Also, do you really need to ”challenge” your friend’s recommendations? If he asks why you install larger ducts than he recommended, you could just tell him you were concerned about the additional pressure drop through the wyes and transitions and wanted to play it safe. He’ll tell you you’ve got more money than brains, you’ll both laugh, and have another beer!
 
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misterfixit

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Kaufman Texas
I agree with your conclusions. I would suggest though, if you can, that you run the ducts for the big room beyond the mezzanine edge. As soon as the air leaves the ductwork, it will slow down and try to return to the return. You want to have enough “throw” to get it close to that end wall. Have you decided to use flex duct because it will be insulated and you have condensation concerns? Also, do you really need to ”challenge” your friend’s recommendations? If he asks why you install larger ducts than he recommended, you could just tell him you were concerned about the additional pressure drop through the wyes and transitions and wanted to play it safe. He’ll tell you you’ve got more money than brains, you’ll both laugh, and have another beer!

Thanks. His suggestion was to mount the registers at the end of the mezzanine and have them throw up, so that as he said it will push down the air to the lower level.

I decided to use flex duct because it's relatively easy to install, available, and cheaper than anything else.
 

Yankeefarmer

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Location
Connecticut
If the registers are angled up, there will not be any complaints about feeling drafts when the system is running. But, with the return up high, how are you going to ensure the air is mixing all the way down to the floor? In air conditioning mode, you’ll be cooling the air near the ceiling, and it will return at mezzanine floor level. In heating mode, you’ll be heating your ceiling more than your work area. In shop areas with high ceilings, it’s common to use ceiling fans to force the hot air down during heating season. Discharging hot air up will only aggravate the need for such fans.
 

Gizzi

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Oct 25, 2015
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I would say your calculations are more accurate than your friends. 8" for the smaller rooms should work well, just use take-offs that have dampers for any needed air adjustments. 14" for the large area looks good too.
 

PWilks

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May 21, 2020
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Minnesota
Hard duct everything.

When I design ductwork in commercial settings, we don’t allow our flex duct connections to exceed 5’ in length. It’s a bigger deal when you’re talking a commercial sized building, but I would still hard duct it to have a better chance at hitting adequate flow rates.
 
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