Air hammers - version no. "oh not this again!"

[Bitter]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319812
I've been reading that thread with great interest, being that I often run across rusted seized stuck axle shafts and hub bearings as well as some seriously stuck rotors and brake drums. I've read that thread top to bottom and bottom to top a few times and what I've gleaned is that a used .498 rivet gun will make a better air hammer for cheaper than a new .498 air hammer would do, due to the differences in quality of construction and controllability.

Anyone know anything about a Jiffy #600 rivet gun though? I'm not finding anything online about it really, the item pictured for sale looks different than the only blurb online I found. One I'm interested in buying is a .498 tool not a .401. I shot off an email to Jiffy but it doesn't look anything like their current line of tools so I don't know how helpful they'll be. I figured the hive mind here might know.

I'll probably pick up a CP 7150 for lighter work, my itty bitty yellow Chinesium air hammer has been converted to a needle scaler for cleaning up heavy rust in a quick jiff. If I need a delicate touch there's a nice snap-on hammer available for me to use with a super smooth trigger. I'm trying to build up my bigboy tools for handling nasty jobs faster though, raise the productivity levels and what not.

 

[plinker]

No experience with the larger air hammers, but the CP 7150 is a good tool, I used mine a lot. The trigger is featherable on it too. If the Snap-on is a 3050, it will hit a bit harder then the 7150. Its been said that you may loose some power with a quick change chuck but I do prefer them.

 

[Bitter]

No experience with the larger air hammers, but the CP 7150 is a good tool, I used mine a lot. The trigger is featherable on it too. If the Snap-on is a 3050, it will hit a bit harder then the 7150. Its been said that you may loose some power with a quick change chuck but I do prefer them.

Thanks for the feedback, I don't believe the other air hammer is a 3050, it looks different and I'm not sure which model it is. It's not weak but it's not super strong. I'm trying to figure out what model it is but I'm not having good luck. It's probably 20 years old now so online results are...poor.

I'm trying to slowly swap the shop over to the high flow V style connectors, just a matter of spreading the cost over time but I think the benefits are worth it. There's room for improvement in the air system for sure but it's not awful. My other air tools run fairly well so I think the air hammer, even a big one, might be OK.



Edit:
Turns out my memory is worse than I thought, it's a Mac AHsomething model. a 750 maybe or a 650 maybe, not sure. Generally strong enough but sometimes it's not and it's not mine so I need my own.

 

[Bitter]

Figured it out, it's a Mac AH 750. Is that CP 7150 leaps and bounds beyond the AH 750? I can't find anything about it online, seems it's either too old or unpopular.

 

[mcmtech]

Not sure on the mac one, but I replaced a ir118max with the cp7150,and I’d put money on it hits harder. The trigger doesn’t seem quite as controllable as the ir, which can seem a bit unruly at first, but like I said it hits hard. I’ve got the bigger Astro as well, but for ~$60 online the cp is a steal. The snap on 3050 is an awesome tool as well if you find a deal, its sort of the standard for pro automotive work.

 

[Bitter]

What's a good going price for a used 3050 these days? Prices are all over the place online. I've got a few days left on the rivet guns I'm watching and a $150 snipe on the 6x one, so if that comes through then hooray, if it does not then I'll grab the CP 7150. I know the 6X is probably overkill but I'm of the 'take it off or break it off just get it done' school of mechanical repair at the point that I'm reaching for the air hammer. And my shoulder isn't what it used to be so swinging the bigger hammers around isn't as fun as it once was.

 

[Bruce Amacker]

The CP 717 is the most powerful pistol style air hammer I've ever used, but it's over $400. I also have a big Chinese (HF style) construction brick breaker that does mean things, it will drive out HD truck kingpins cold.

 

[Bitter]

Re: Air hammers - version no. "oh not this again!"

I'm interested in dirty brick beaters,tell me more? Yeah the 717 is out of my price range, I've pined for about a year and have other places in my tool box that can use the money.

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[plinker]

I have a Mac short barrel hammer that is made by CP, not sure of the model number off hand. I picked up a 3050 long barrel (used) from the local Matco guy for 125$-ish (IIRC), anything around or under 200$ and looks decent should work fine.

I have not had any real issues buying used air tools that are in like new condition.

 

[Bitter]

Thanks.
I've had good luck with used air tools as well, I've got an IR air ratchet and an IR 211 impact I got used years ago and they've both been fantastic tools. If not there's always rebuild kits, most tools are easy to break down and fix or improve.

 

[Bitter]

Well a couple hours to go on the Jiffy 600, looks like I might get it! I'm excited,but I hear good .498 chisels and bits are hard to find or expensive. What's good in .498? I think I read Ajax? Are any of the tool truck brands any good? Right now our only truck is Snap-on though so I guess my choices are limited.

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[rlitman]

I've read good things about Ajax chisels here. CP makes good chisels.
I don't think any of the tool trucks sell .498 chisels.

I've got the Grey Pneumatic .498 set. Lots of people here have complained about them. I haven't had any issues, but I'm just one data point.

 

[Bitter]

Awesome, thanks. Scant selection on eBay for .498 stuff, might need to shop at a real tool retailer.

I won the Jiffy 600 for $67 and $7 shipping! I hope it's as good as I expect it to be.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302618242215
I'm fairly pleased with that price, I'll spend as much on chisels and bits as I did on the gun.

 

[plinker]

Cant go wrong with Snap-on chisels, spendy, but worth it. Matco's are pretty good as well. I have a couple of Ajax & some VIM (Matco) brass tip bits that hold up nicely. Napa, Sunex and IR bits seem to be a bit softer then the others. Not bad for average use but I have since upgraded most of mine.

That .498 hammer looks pretty serious.

 

[Bitter]

I hope it's serious.
Snap-on sells .498 bits? I didn't see much on their website, I'll check with my tool guy when he's stopped by next week.
I can already hear the mailman at work "the hell did you order now, this heavy *** box been slowin me down".

 

[Bitter]

I scored some Ajax bits for under $20 each on eBay, those come in next week so does the gun. Looking for a set of pickle forks, found 1" and 3/4", does anyone make a smaller size in .498 shank? Sometimes I run up against some really stubborn imports with smaller parts that need big hitting.

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[Finky198]

Their was a guy selling an adapter on eBay that makes them go from .401 to .498

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F162108660940

It’s worked well for many uses. I use the .401 lisle pickle fork set with great success... Ajax offers the most bits in the biz also very good quality a bit hard to find as they only sell thru dealers...

 

[Bitter]

Their was a guy selling an adapter on eBay that makes them go from .401 to .498

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F162108660940

It’s worked well for many uses. I use the .401 lisle pickle fork set with great success... Ajax offers the most bits in the biz also very good quality a bit hard to find as they only sell thru dealers...

I saw that on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VR5Q2Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20
But decided to pass since the reviews are generally less than stellar and it seems like these guys are using it with 5X 717's and 4980's and I'm planning to run a 6X so I'm not sure how durable it would be. Maybe it's OK with higher quality .401 bits though. For the price I might try it someday. I guess worse comes to worse I can fabricobble a smaller .401 fork into a .498 shank somehow. Give me a gas torch, coat hanger, and the proper amount of anger and I can make anything work!
https://imgur.com/gallery/TbsFk

I reckon I could get a cheap .498 rivet set, drill the center to just a hair shy of the shank of a .401 bit I needed, heat the .498, press the .401 in, and let shrinkage take care of the rest. No weld to break off! "1 thou per inch per 100 degrees" or something like that.

 

[Finky198]

I use it with my 7x Atlas copco. You have just got to turn it down a little that’s all...

Your way over thinking this one $30 one and done and you can use any .401 bit on the market. The bits break way before the adapter... ask me how I know.... although some bits are very long lasting.

The Snap on (.401) and Ajax (.401 .498) are best in my op.

 

[Bitter]

I use it with my 7x Atlas copco. You have just got to turn it down a little that’s all...

Your way over thinking this one $30 one and done and you can use any .401 bit on the market the bits break way before the adapter... ask me how I know....

Turn it down? From 11?

I'll snag the Amazon one, says it's the same brand but for less than the eBay link, I'm still waiting on the tool and my .498 bits to come in anyway so I'll see how she hits and bang some things apart with it then get the adapter if I feel the need for it. I don't think there's going to be a lot of times where I'll need anything other than the few .498 bits I've got coming. What I would enjoy would be a cupped hammer so I can put it on things that are meant to be driven by hand. Ah well once again, welding is the answer to that quandary unless I find something like that.

 

[Finky198]

Just look for a cupped rivet set in the right size 5/16+ Works well
your correct they are great for installing pins, rods, large bolts, etc...

Personally I like a large flush rivet set About 1”

 

[kiatech]

Guys at work still think my atlas copco 7x hammer is some Chinese import because it doesn't work with any of their snap on bits.

 

[Finky198]

^^^

 

[Bitter]

They must be confused, their Snap-on tools are made in China. (just the ones with whizzy battery doohickies and buttons so far as I know)

 

[Bitter]

It came, it's not as big as I thought and it was hitting kind of slow so I oiled it and HOLY MACARONI! Hits hard, hits fast, uses a weird size spring. It's about 401 diameter but needs to be thicker than 401 spring wire. I'll have to contact a place for a spring, the ones I ordered are too big in diameter sadly. Not sure a 498 quick chuck would work either, might get a beehive spring for safety since it hits so hard. Still some old schmoo in the bore to clean out though, I'll get it tomorrow.

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[Bitter]

I'd like to pop this thing apart and clean it out, it's put together differently than my other tiny air hammer. It doesn't look like the barrel threads into place, looks like it's got some kind of toothed part and a collar with a split on it. I'll snap some photos at work today and upload them. I don't want to just go at it whole hog and break or bend something doing it wrong.

 

[Bitter]

I think I kind of see how it comes apart, but I just washed a bunch of WD40 through it and cleared the crud out pretty well. Blew the WD out and I'll oil it before next use. Hope I get to use it soon!

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[Bitter]

So the threaded section the spring goes on is 1-3/16th, I'm having a hard time tracking down a spring for that. I think I found one at USATCO, a 09-RH-4, I'm going to give them a ring on Monday to see if that's a .498 shank spring.

Otherwise do you think a quick change chuck made for .498 guns would be able to work on this thing? The springs I ordered for .498 were too large diameter so I'm guessing .498 quick changes may not work out either but since they fit with set screws there may be enough play with those that it would work out. I'm not sure. Probably no one else is sure either, this is some uncommon gun I guess.

 

[kiatech]

What gun do you have?

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[Finky198]

They are quick chucks available on Ajax web site but I had a hard time finding a dealer with the right combination let Alone figure out what it need in the first place...

I was lucky enough to have the steel body, but nobody in the USA Canada or Mexico had the .498 insert for the Atlas gun instock. Thankfully Ajax made good on it. They found one in there warehouse and sent it direct. Not something they usually do.

Be prepared to do some research and make some more phone calls. If you go that route

 

[Bitter]

What gun do you have?

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Jiffy #600 .498. It's an older gun, Ingersoll style. Hits hard and has a nice trigger but seems to use a less common spring size.

They are quick chucks available on Ajax web site but I had a hard time finding a dealer with the right combination let Alone figure out what it need in the first place...

I was lucky enough to have the steel body, but nobody in the USA Canada or Mexico had the .498 insert for the Atlas gun instock. Thankfully Ajax made good on it. They found one in there warehouse and sent it direct. Not something they usually do.

Be prepared to do some research and make some more phone calls. If you go that route

So what did you end up getting? If there's part numbers I can find what I'm looking for, I just don't know exactly what I'm looking for yet. I know it takes a 1-3/16th spring for .498 bits but that's about it. I don't know what spring size those chucks replace, I can't seem to find that kind of information in the catalog, just what guns they're made for, but can't seem to track down what size springs those guns use! I'll figure it out eventually, but a little nudge or help is always greatly appreciated!

What I've been able to learn is that there's basically 2 styles of rivet gun, CP style and IR style. CP style is more common now and that's what the 717 and 4980 are so that's what you find springs and chucks made for almost everywhere on the Internet. Atlas-Copco I believe are IR style guns so maybe a spring for one of those would fit my Jiffy, I'll try looking for chucks and springs going down that road and see what I turn up and report back so if someone else googles this problem or searches here they'll find some answers.

For what it's worth this gun is fairly compact but packs an incredible punch. It's really no bigger than a PH3050 or other good .401 air hammer. The trigger teases in very nicely now that the gun is cleaned up inside, I've ordered an in line valve so I can regulate the air to the gun for a little better control when it's needed.

Hey, found this.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306638
Sounds like 3200 is the chuck and I just need to get with Ajax about which insert is for a 1-3/16th spring replacement! Awesome, glad you posted that information, thank you!

Ok so Ajax 2015 catalog has 3200-1 for an IR AVC-26 and a 3200-3 for a CP 717, I'm thinking 3200-1 would be the correct size. Is there any chance you can measure the insert ID you've got on your gun for me so I can confirm?
I can chase part numbers all day (and I have) and I have found the spring for the AVC-26 gun (AVC24-283) but I can't find the spring ID listed anywhere on line to confirm. Perhaps I could make my own plastic insert if I needed to or get a cheap .401 chuck and take the insert out of it since my .401 spring nearly fits this .498 gun.

 

[kiatech]

I use the GRY-CH8001 on my atlas copco

 

[Bitter]

I see that one pop up the most often when searching, they also don't list the ID of the insert. Can you measure yours?

I may have found a round-about solution. I bought a .401 needle scaler a while back that has a plastic insert. The thing was super cheap, I could scavenge the insert out of my needle scaler and use it in the 3200-1 chuck if it's insert isn't correct. Maybe. And just buy another one.

 

[Bitter]

Good news, the 3200-1 is the correct insert! I've painted the handle red (poorly) and I'm going to hit the collar with some blue, and leave the barrel bare shiny steel (white) and call it the freedom gun because it gets stuff free. I've been able to use it some at work and it's a huge time saver, things pop right loose with the minimum of effort now. Since the 3200-1 is for Ingersoll rivet guns and air hammers with .498 shank I think I can reasonably assume that should I need a spring I can order one for a .498 Ingersoll. The chuck is nice and big which may present access problems in some situations. I appreciate the help here, I'll be sure to stop in from time to time.

 

[Bitter]

I just got a CP 7150 cause the .498 bits are expensive with slim pickins, the 7150 has some good power behind it but I'm pretty spoiled by the trigger on the Jiffy 600. Also sometimes the Jiffy is a little big to get in where I need to get in at things. Is there any way to mod the 7150 so it'll tease in real nice like my big gun?

Also, the Jiffy makes a heck of a thumb detector, I sure found my thumb real good a few weeks ago.

 

[Bitter]

The saga continues. I saw mentioned a few times here that anything larger than a 6x would likely break more than it would fix on cars and light trucks. I see why, I was driving out a seized hub bearing with the Jiffy #600 yesterday and 3 of 5 lug studs just rattled right loose of the hub! I'm still a bit stunned by that, but then again it was a Ford I was working on.