Air line feed from compressor

[Boneheads Garage]

I need to extend an air line feed approximately 100' from the compressor inside a heated pole barn. I've seen galvanized, copper or products like Rapid Air. I was hoping for some input from others who have a similar setup or information to help me with making up my decision. I'm thinking 1" galvanized. Thanks in advance.

 

[ovrrdrive]

I take it this will be an underground extension?

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

Galvanized is not recommended due to the plating flaking off inside the pipe and causing problems.

Black Iron is cheap and easy, (if you have a way of threading pipe)

Rapid Air if you have more money than time.

And copper if you're good at brazing joints and are familiar with working it.
BTW there are 3 different grades of copper available. K,L & M
I sweated my copper using standard solder and flux but it's recommended to braze for safety reasons.

Good luck, plenty of info on this site if your try a search.

 

[sberry]

How much Air you need?

 

[Boneheads Garage]

I plan on running overhead and then down, branch off after that. As far as how much do I need, not much right now. I'll be running standard air tools but will also be utilizing a media blast cabinet, and other tools that will be air hogs. I may also be in a situation where there could be two of us working at the same time. Just don't want to run out of air. I believe my compressor puts out about 15 SCFM at 175 psi.

The pipe will be indoors the entire way and I do have a pipe threader with a 1" cutter.

I do like the idea of the copper, I think it would look good too. I can solder copper, no problem.

 

[sberry]

The run out of air issue will be on the compressor and not the pipe. 1/2 will work with 2 compressors that size and will run 1/2 impacts at that distance. I just put 100 ft in a run in mine and did it 1/2 but a guy could go to 3/4 without much cost. I ran my 3/4 gun from it the other night and it really hit hard.

 

[Boneheads Garage]

If 3/4 would work that would be a little easier to work with and save some $$$. I'll price up the difference in cost.
Thx

 

[sberry]

I remember one of the first I did and used inch where I should have used 1/2. All of it doesn't need to be large. I just did one where the manifold and turns all done in 3/4 and a good shot of long run done in 1/2.
3/4 isn't terrible in price and is really 2x of 1/2 but again only needed for large air impact. 1/2 hose is a quite a bit smaller than a 1/2 steel pipe. Inch is for a truck service shop, inch air guns.
I had a couple bottle necks in
my own deal with hyd hoses as jumpers. Guilty of what I rally about but it was hurting on a real heavy air gun. If you do this use a 3/4 hose,1/2 wouldn't be bad for 1/2 air guns which is what I had but then had another piece of 3/8 at the other end which is about like a small automotive air chuck.
I thought I would be imagining things but can actually tell a bit on some recent plumbing improvements. I could have made as pinch better but we are getting near pit stop efforts and it all doesn't matter,,, it worked before and is 3x better,,, wtf,, can you say obsessive????

 

[sberry]

This is an area I work on with the forum, a realistic view of what the demand load really is. I see some recommendations where the giver is a professional of sorts but the advice is amateur.
The op lists every tool he can think of in giant size for a 2 car garage and its off to the races, 2 circuits every 4 ft which will never get used. 100 A well exceeds demands for this type of thing. Guys don't need number 10 wire to every 20A outlet and in fact a lot of the things done really hurt as they are not completely engineered, defeat the engineering or assume the engineers were stupid and didn't know how to size a bung on a comp.

 

[sberry]

I put in some pipe last week, was doing design and build with my brother and was showing him a couple different cases. One had the original design changed a bit, easier to install and saved 10 ft of pipe and 20 ft of run, the other didn't save any pipe but where we tapped it saved 10 ft of run, 90 ft vs 100, 10% line loss savings for free.

 

[DenisG]

Here's a system using PEX-Al-PEX for compressed air:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134367

 

[sberry]

I had a couple bottlenecks I am embarrassed to admit that were case using some issue at super hi demand and even turning it up wasn't helping at some point. I didn't notice it when sandblasting, probably due to losses mostly being at one section but as I mentioned some savings in length.
I just moved a hose reel that has been there for 15 yrs. It was a convenience and we didn't use it a lot but the move actually made it reach better, went out of the way and used the same pipe, cut off 60 ft. Reel location is super critical. One of the design changes I quoted above, changed from 60 ft to 40 and up the pipe size a bit but the free part was the length, either 1/3 less of 50% more if it were added.
Same for the other piece, I somewhat miss calculated, it was reduction of 10 ft from 85 to 75 ft which makes it better than 10%.
This is really some babble but the point is that the losses are not where you think they may be and the load not as high. Multiple users may be from different points on the circuit.
Some of this I shouldn't say because my perspective is a bit different but assuming I didn't have a pile and had to buy and design try to get to 1/2 as soon as I can as its so much easier to work and to change. Jus6t a few pieces and a handful of fittings and can reconfigure a deal in a heartbeat, can and do, I am not scared to unthread a piece of pipe.

 

[sberry]

With rotary tools or blasting the line size is irrelevant here. 50 ft of 3/8 hose will soon tire this compressor as will a DA, it will provide just enough air for 1 continuous operator, 2 tools can run from 3/8 hose from 1/2 pipe at 100 f,,, pipe not an issue, demand is.

 

[sberry]

Ok. I ramble on but its about some experience. I just got done a week piping steel and for another 100 bucks could have bought hose I could have installed in half a day, filthy steel I bought from a box store I should have returned but its hindsight.
If this needs to be fit with runs in the ceiling I would seriously consider it, get 100 ft of 3/4 air system hose and be done with it.
I am still learning and changing my mind. I got started on the wrong foot and continued. It started as a way to use up scrap and saved material and cost way more in the long run than buying 2 rolls of tubing. Because you sue it doesn't mean that you have to use every fitting they ever invented and in some cases would make sense to home run it.

 

[CNGsaves]

You've got 3 options that you should consider:
. . . . a) black pipe steel (cheap, strong, but needs pre-planned)
. . . . b) copper (excellent but pricey, easy to modify)
. . . . c) RapidAir style hybrid (pricey but easily modified, need to support)

No need for 1" and do NOT use galvanized.

Might consider 3/4" mainline which would be nice, then go with 1/2" drops.

 

[ovrrdrive]

I plan on running overhead and then down, branch off after that. As far as how much do I need, not much right now. I'll be running standard air tools but will also be utilizing a media blast cabinet, and other tools that will be air hogs. I may also be in a situation where there could be two of us working at the same time. Just don't want to run out of air. I believe my compressor puts out about 15 SCFM at 175 psi.

The pipe will be indoors the entire way and I do have a pipe threader with a 1" cutter.

I do like the idea of the copper, I think it would look good too. I can solder copper, no problem.

I think I'd run 3/4" copper to the first drop location then 1/2" after that if it were me. 3/4" is probably slight overkill but you don't know if in ten years you'll be running something that takes that much air and it's easier to pay the fractionally larger amount now and be done with it than it would be to retrofit it at what copper is going to cost in the future. The copper would outlast you and look good too.

 

[ticci]

Here's a system using PEX-Al-PEX for compressed air:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134367

This works well. Air lines in my cousins garage are done like this and have worked well for some years now. Of course it's not as pretty as a copper line, but fast and easy to put on. And it's cheap.

 

[Boneheads Garage]

A lot of people have been saying 3/4" is fine....

I think I'm going to run the 3/4 black pipe to the farthest location where most of the work will be done. Thinking about installing a reservoir tank and then split off the 1/2" lines from there. Going from 1" to 3/4" is a nice savings and it's a little easier to work with as far as cutting, threading and tightening.

Thanks for all of the input...

 

[sberry]

You make a good point about location. If most of the work is at the far end it makes sense to go 3/4, the transmission losses would be a bit better under hi loads over long times.
I forget the exact math but a 3/4 steel pipe will handle a lot of air. Its bigger than a 3/4 hose or tubing and the fittings are larger over the outside vs stubbed in a hose.

 

[myredracer]

Kopper is King... I had a bunch laying around from years of "collecting" so that's what I used. Nice thing about copper besides good for cooling the air, is that you can easily and quickly cut it to length. Goof up and make it too short? Just add a coupling and extend it. Want to modify it afterwards? Just cut it in place and modify as needed. Super easy to solder as long as you thoroughly clean all mating pieces. Not sure why you need to silver solder or braze unless using much higher psi than needed for typical air tools and equip. With copper, you can make large radius sweep bends by filling with sand (I did with 3/4"). Less restrictive compared to tight 90 elbows.

I can't imagine having to work with threaded iron pipe and trying to get all the lengths exact. Somehow, plastic seems like the easy and cheap way out plus it won't transfer heat and help cool the air like metal does. Some are staunch iron pipe supporters and some plastic and some copper. No overwhelming numbers in any one of the 3 camps it seems.

Howdy to Kiwi Canuck somewhere in Langley, BC...

 

[engineer2]

You might consider a perimeter loop if you might add new drops in other areas later on. A loop also minimizes pressure drop for the farthest user.

 

[sberry]

While most everything said is true whether it matters is another issue. Since the OP is using a pipe of sufficient size the elbows and T are very minor. They would be exaggerated a bit with hose barbs.
Here 1/2 is sufficient with a 2 to one margin, using a 3/4 there will virtually no loos when running average tools supplied by 3/8 hose and only about .3 psi difference between 1/2 and 3/4.
Loops have their place but require more parts and different design, great for marginal systems in plants. Here we don't need additional performance, would like the line near level to pitching down to the point of use and suffecien6t air flow to move any condensate along to a filter drop/drip. Huge pipe, small use make all the corrosion issues worse.
I tail ended some of mine with 1/2 just to speed it up a little.
A lot of rust found during disassembly is in drip legs, dead ends etc. I took some active circuits apart on 1/2 a while back where we routinely use a 1/2 gun and they were slick clean.

 

[sberry]

One doesn't really need to increase size to add more drops, a little like a general electric circuit, several or hundred outlets, 1 used at a time on this 2 stage system with limited compressor. No matter how many you add and how big the pipe unless one puts 3 x comp on it wont matter.
Even if there is multiple use, a couple # drop for a few seconds doesn't hurt. A 3/8 rubber air hose will actually deliver way more air than this comp will make. It will lose 10# or a bit more under full load at that distance but it may not matter much but do a diameter comparison between 3/8 hose and a 3/4 steel pipe using actual measurement and will soon see the size of the main doesn't add much insult or restriction to most systems.
Like most whips and connections the primary is a size bigger than the whip with most of the juice lost in the whip and even less noticeable on 2 stage.

 

[sberry]

I really did have a restriction in a hose and it was robbing a 3/4 gun. It was enough it wouldn't really help turning the pressure up. In the OP case using normal tools on 100 ft of 3/4 will add less than a pound of loss, easily made up for in regulator adjustment and wont effect headroom.
Lots of air ratings at 100# and 100 ft and full cfm 2x the requirement of the tool. If a guy is using 2 stage the transport between 130 and 175 improves matters as well as normal loads much in the same way while we wire a 12/20 electric circuit the stuff found on common ones is via a 15A plug and max about 13A but the continual worry assumes they going out and putting 20A on continuous with loads next to each other from the same box etc when the place can be ran from a couple tool circuits.

 

[sberry]

We saw a proposed plan here that actually got some raving endorsement. 7 air drops with regs and reels in a 24x24 residential garage, 3 hp compressor and worried if 3/4 will work and does he need a loop??
We had college graduated engineers creating questions in the posters mind as to whether this was adequate?

 

[theoldwizard1]

A small reservoir at the remote end is a good idea. Make sure it has a drain.

Ahead of the reservoir I would have a shut off and a drip leg clean out. The regulator would be after the reservoir.

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

Kopper is King... Not sure why you need to silver solder or braze unless using much higher psi than needed for typical air tools and equip. Howdy to Kiwi Canuck somewhere in Langley, BC...

Silver Solder and brazing is recommended in case of fire. the pipe will stay together whereas with solder sweated joints they could come a part and feed the fire, that is the rational behind it.

I sweated my joints with solder, too lazy to braze each joint.
I do shut off my compressor after each day I use it, (almost everyday), but don't drain it down just leaved it ready to go next time I need it.
I figure if I get blow out or big leak the compressors not going to run all night or weekend if I'm away.

I'm located South East Langley 48th & 238th St area

 

[Boneheads Garage]

Black pipe isn't bad to work with. I ran a 250' 1" gas line and mounted it to my ceiling 16' up. It wasn't bad because I had a second guy and we had scaffolding. Threading the pipe is a nice workout! 3/4" pipe should be a lot easier than the 1". I like the idea of copper but it'll be quite a bit more $.

 

[Boneheads Garage]

I ran about 130' of 3/4" black pipe today, mounted it to the ceiling and installed T's where the drops will go. Also placed a couple of T's for pontential future runs. I have about 60 more feet of horizontal runs and then connect the drops. I decided to utilize 3/4" for the drops instead of reducing to 1/2". Should have it completed tomorrow.

I'm looking for some 3/8" high flow universal quick connect fittings and would like to get them locally. Any suggestions.