Air line layout

[mrgtstr]

In the middle of installing the 3/4 rapid air line system and trying decided whether their is a major difference or benefit to do a complete loop around the garage where the walls meet at the ceiling or just stop at my farthest drop. The garage is a 30x40 with 12 foot ceilings and will be using a 60 gallon air compressor.

Also, I been having my eye on either the Klutch 3/8 air hose reel or the Kobalt one and seeing if anyone has any feed back on either.

 

[mike93lx]

With that size shop and compressor, no, it won't help

 

[sberry]

With 3/4 a loop won't help at that short distance. The point is to have enough, anymore than that is,a waste. I actually like a single line in a small shop, can drive any condensate down to deal with it. 3/4 will feed 3 reels at the same time. Will run a 3/4 air gun way north of 150 ft.
Will haul 3x what that comp can make. Wouldn't be able to measure much real loss below 30 cfm 100 ft+ if then.

 

[sberry]

I think those reels are ok. Down low I don't mind manual, overhead needs retractor.

 

[rayra]

well it's a little more pressurized volume to drawn down before your compressor kicks on, but not any difference worth deliberately doing the extra work for.

 

[mrgtstr]

Thanks for the quick feedback. Only reason I was considering doing a full loop was for air capacity, but if that is the only reason...I am all for getting away with less work!

Only other question is pros and cons on the rubber air hoses vs the poly hybrid hoses.

 

[mike93lx]

Air hose selection really depends on how durable you need, how much flexibility you need and how cold the Temps will be.

I have a nice, flexible rubber hose that I never use because it is heavy. 99% of the time, I use a simple, coiled polyurethane hose as I bring my small compressor to the work.

 

[sberry]

Thanks for the quick feedback. Only reason I was considering doing a full loop was for air capacity, but if that is the only reason...I am all for getting away with less work!

Only other question is pros and cons on the rubber air hoses vs the poly hybrid hoses.

The demand factor is highly,,,,,,, highly over rated on the forum. I have a full shop, one of my most used is 100 ft of 1/2 steel, never a lack of air. Other circuit finishes with 20 ft 1/2 and a foot of 3/8 pipe.
This would be different if you were a truck tire service center, needed to run inch impacts. Even then at this short distance any improvement would be marginal. Truck shops being big start with 100 ft circuits, the cost and work for a system can be rather irrelevent. A system in a small building may be as simple as a couple pcs of pipe, dont need a hydrant in every corner and 3 down the wall. They need to run to a reel, a reel or 2 is your friend, pipe to them vs pipe everywhere just in case. 30x40 is going to fill fast, adequate but minimal can be better that stuff everywhere

 

[sberry]

Also,, the hose systems, rapid or water they are is ok and can be routed one piece so all connections at grind level but adapt them to npt and finish most of it common fittings, so easy to add/change. Start a system like this with a ball valve at the comp as the first fitting, go from there. Once a guy does that never a need to shut the comp down.

 

[stonesfan68]

The only reason to complete the loop now is the fact that you’re working on it now. If you’re anything like me then that air loop will never be done, and you’ll wish you would have done it when you need an air line in that part of the shop.

 

[sberry]

1 hose reel for 1000 sq ft, 2 for more. I good well placed is worth several others where a guy tries to move ****. Put in a hundred outlets and use 2. We had a guy here want to put 6 drops in a 12x20 garage, you know, 1 in the welding area, I in the mechanic bay, another for paint, gonna order 6 regulators.
I am all about tailoring, nothing wrong with adding something when a guy finds out where it will work but no need to shot gunna bunch at it, leave a tap or make it easy to add for an extension should it come up. I actually removed stuff I wasn't and hadn't really used during my last remod. Moved a reel to a better place and eliminated 45 ft of line.

 

[mrgtstr]

The only reason to complete the loop now is the fact that you’re working on it now. If you’re anything like me then that air loop will never be done, and you’ll wish you would have done it when you need an air line in that part of the shop.

This is definitely me....However, I don't foresee I would be adding a drop on that side of the garage since its used more for storage. That being said, if I do end up needing a drop I could add it where the line starts versus ends. The way I do the install now is pretty much guaranteed this is the layout its going to be unless I run out of things to do in the garage.

 

[Firebrick43]

The demand factor is highly,,,,,,, highly over rated on the forum. I have a full shop, one of my most used is 100 ft of 1/2 steel, never a lack of air. Other circuit finishes with 20 ft 1/2 and a foot of 3/8 pipe.
This would be different if you were a truck tire service center, needed to run inch impacts. Even then at this short distance any improvement would be marginal. Truck shops being big start with 100 ft circuits, the cost and work for a system can be rather irrelevent. A system in a small building may be as simple as a couple pcs of pipe, dont need a hydrant in every corner and 3 down the wall. They need to run to a reel, a reel or 2 is your friend, pipe to them vs pipe everywhere just in case. 30x40 is going to fill fast, adequate but minimal can be better that stuff everywhere

Thing is many here do run large impacts, da sanders or a 6” air grinder. Your setup while fine for many is **** for high demand tools. A good 3/4 impact is neutered by 3/8 pipe and hose. A loop makes a noticeable difference in many situations even in a 30x 40 building. It’s a matter of application.

 

[pbon]

I went through the trouble of putting one on each wall in my 750SF home DIYer shop and in hindsight would have been fine with 1 for a hose reel and 1 for the lift. But it was fun soldering 140’ of copper pipe. I used 1/2”

 

[engineer2]

A loop is useful if multiple people are using air at the same time in different parts of the building. And, as said, for adding future drops. If neither of those apply, one line is fine. Rapid Air is easy to modify should the need arise later on.

 

[Kaizen]

Op with the rapid air I did in the end decided to put all of it in the attic and just drop down as needed. Pita to get that stuff nice on runs over ten feet.


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[sberry]

Thing is many here do run large impacts, da sanders or a 6” air grinder. Your setup while fine for many is **** for high demand tools. A good 3/4 impact is neutered by 3/8 pipe and hose. A loop makes a noticeable difference in many situations even in a 30x 40 building. It’s a matter of application.

I agree is app driven but I run da, 7 inch, do have a 1/2 hose for a 3/4 gun but last time I used it actually ran it from 25 ft 3/8 line, q 2 inch socket and it did the job. How much better has it got to be, ran 2 6 inch da without a problem, 10# drop, barely tell.
Like I said,, way over concerned. Done this a long time, never been short of air. A foot of 3/8 pipe on the hi side before a reg doesn't mean squat. A 7/16 bit will go thru 3/8 steel is better than the type h I am using rated 72 cfm. The rating all this is about 75 cfm before acceptable loss, 3/4 is about 50 maybe
6 inch da will give a 5 hp a good run, a section of 50 ft 3/8 hose doesnt slow it dow, still got to throttle it with its meter valve.

 

[sberry]

When I plumbed one of my first deals thought I knew more than the master said 1/2 would work, of course I used inch. Over the years have ran across very few undersized pipes for air, used 1000 hrs, supervised another 10k hrs and worked where they use 100 manors from a hodge podge of 3/8 hose tapped with t from hell, everyone got the work done, dozens of units from 3/4 feeds to manifolds.

 

[sberry]

Wore another 7 inch right out, 50, maybe 75 wire wheels on the 4 inch, 100s of cut wheels on them. Sandblast, tons of sand. Bunch of it fed from a 3x8 reel to the pot. Have ran out of air cause the comp wouldon't make more.

 

[sberry]

A loop is useful if multiple people are using air at the same time in different parts of the building. And, as said, for adding future drops. If neither of those apply, one line is fine. Rapid Air is easy to modify should the need arise later on.

I was doing some plant setup and they come one day and ask if we could upgrade a 2 inch air line to a 3,,, we'll yes, they wanna figure some scheme to work at night, a whole bunch of work around. Took a week to splain how it made sense to create a loop by feeding it from the other end with another 2 inch. Didn't need to go completely to the end to tie it in.

 

[sberry]

I went through the trouble of putting one on each wall in my 750SF home DIYer shop and in hindsight would have been fine with 1 for a hose reel and 1 for the lift. But it was fun soldering 140’ of copper pipe. I used 1/2”

This is close to what most find when it's all done, the hindsite looks different. This, lots of ideas seen at work, in large plants are good enough concepts but it's different in a 1000 ft long building with dozens of applications.
While I have a 300$chain drive cumalong what I carry and use in my pickup is a 50$ wire one, like it better. Asked me this 40 yrs ago would have been different, lots of stuff like that. I saw it on the job, in plants, in drawings like that TP and didn't keep them in context. It's one reason I am sensitive on the forums, don't post up my screw ups, , only after I figure out the better/best ones, some of the final results.

 

[sberry]

I look back at my first designs to do the same work. Mostly over built with too many complicated features. I notice it in some others we used to admire back in the day, some we paid for and never used. We're too heavy, cost too much and never did work right, we redesign instead of carefully copying proven work. Fukked up some safety we really didn't understand, lots of stuff, lucky at times.
There are some guys here this is totally irrelevent to. It's mostly for guys asking the questions, like in the original post to this thread. I didn't comment for 3 pages till most had their say but the original post asked,,, is there a better way,,,, well, yes there is.

 

[sberry]

When Pat posts I read, same for Dr clyde, I think the table is great for him, their work is great, it's practical and manageable in their circumstances . I admire those things, I got very little comment on simplicity, practicality, I take some good ideas from them, not always in whole but pieces that apply as I can use.
But if they ask how, what, how much, are concerned with cost and long range use then I got an opinion and sometimes a different one. A guy has a 5x10 plate weighs 2000# in front of his 2 car garage, cant cut or lift it, has no real work then I say something other than you go girl and how you would do it in a full machine shop with a crane rail etc. It ain't no good if it's not in context.
It's often poor advice from highly skilled experts, it's different than value added salesman that gets the right machine, it's different than everyone's favorites. If a guy comes here asks, I want a set of snaps, don't care what they cost etc, I got no comment, a kid comes that works in a salvage yard and asks if he saves 2 weeks pay for 10 combination wrenches and how will his life improve then I got a way different opinion. Same for the question about the fukki socket, looking for a machine shop to grind a little off, a job guys been doing in 5 minutes to 1$ sockets for decades. Send the guy on a goose chase for hours, maybe days pestering shops in the tri county area don't want the job and all gotta take a phone call or 2 over it.
This is likely a bigger deal than real technical misinformation that often gets straightened out quick as this is a value question. Ask me where to get the best deal on a 300$set of wrenches then I got nothing, ask what wrenches to get cause you got none and need to get work done I got something. I can say for a fact can get it done for 30$ and it will work now and even decades from now.

 

[sberry]

Pat used the term minimalist, that's probably pretty good as it applies . Noting wrong with tigging and machining pipe hangers, I am a hanger and bracket builder myself. Do it when I need something more substantial or when I screw up and find I can't grab uo one from a stock box.
This scheme was kind of a mess, was the result of some crappy planning on my part, in the end was never used much and the effort a waste.
I remember doing it, put in 2 hydrants I didn't use, 100 ft of pipe and then dug up, extended it with 30 more ft and another hydrant I didn't use. Took a day, cost 200 in materials, didn't use it once I can recall. 10 years later I moved another circuit about 20 ft, got it in the right place. Got it valve off, should recover some of the parts, will likely never be used.

 

[Giles]

I have never posted a line in any forum, ever. I must say that whenever I see a post/reply from sberry, I read every line and comprehend it. He has to be one of the most knowledgeable people on this site. A real straightforward, professional person. Extremely impressive. His approach to a problem is thoughtful, simple and to the point saving alot of money and time. I really appreciate his insight and always look for his replies to every post.
Best Regards.

 

[sberry]

Wow,,, I promise not to get a big head. Thanks. I probably owe a couple guys an apology over it, I figure they got me on the ignore list. Only reason I know is I done it wrong, some of it more than once. It took a while for it to become second nature and I am still not immune from some of it. Am as compulsive or obsessive as the next guy.
I look back and guys even tried to point it out and now I do tend to copy some old masters when I have a chance, missed one for free not too long ago would have saved some work had I looked better.
Nothing serious, no one notice but me but its still there.

 

[PhantomEB]

I want a system that goes across and down both walls. I hate extension cords and hoses.

 

[sberry]

Sure, great reason to plumb is to get hoses up. I had a bud just avoid a couple simple pipes and walked on hose for years. I very rarely step on hose or cord. Hung one overhead today just to keep some foot traffic from it.

 

[mrgtstr]

This maybe a silly or obvious question but going to ask anyways. If the air lines aren't perfectly straight and have some slight waves in them, is that something to be concerned with as far as moisture is concerned and/or performance?

 

[mike93lx]

This maybe a silly or obvious question but going to ask anyways. If the air lines aren't perfectly straight and have some slight waves in them, is that something to be concerned with as far as moisture is concerned and/or performance?

No. If air works fine through a hose, a small dip or bend in a hard line won't matter. We aren't talking about crazy volumes or pressures here.