air line plumbing

[camaro77]

getting ready to plumb the garage for air have a 60 gallon tank and plan to add a extra 20 gallons because I have it garage is 24x24 going to have a 24 ft run the 90 to another 24 ft run with 4 drops. I plan to do the drops in 1/2 my question is do I run 3/4 for the main feed or keep it all 1/2 this will all be in cooper TYPE L.

thanks Jeff

 

[Matti]

I did mine similar and it works fine but high volume air usage is taken off of a connection near the tank. 3/4" on the main would be ideal though.

 

[The Cobbler]

1/2 will let a lot of air thru especially at short runs like you have.
my suspicion is 3/4 is overkill

 

[sberry]

1/2 is plenty but why all the drops? Its not like electric with all the parasitic equipment. Focus on getting it to the place or 2 its needed, fixed whip and a reel. I dont want to move short hose from hydrant to hydrant, I fix one end and have a quick connect at the business end.

 

[matt_i]

If you have "special needs" like a large impact or a blast cabinet (or turbine style air tools like die grinder, etc) then I'd go with a 3/4 header....3/4 all the way to the blast cabinet if you choose that route.

The copper "type" does not matter, even the thin stuff has plenty of pressure rating, look it up.

I'd put in the extra drops while you are working on it, just will be more convenient later.

A hose reel near a door is very convenient for blowing up, err, you know...inflating tires.

I would put a ball valve on each drop. Quick connects are notoriously leaky. I've never found one that's leak-free.

Stay Brite #8 solder - lead free and stronger tensile - won't creep. Stay clean flux.

 

[bad_idea]

Depends on use. What are you doing in the garage? Feeding a blast cabinet? Multiple users? Why do you want multiple drops? I find a centrally located hose reel mounted to the rafters is ideal. Simple system and will reach anywhere in that size space. If you are plumbing the drops for convenience of use for one user, then I would run 1/2" for the entire system. If you are feeding a hungry piece of equipment (blast cabinet, etc) then I would route 3/4 up to that drop and then 1/2 the rest of the way.

 

[coljar]

I used 3/4" black iron for the header with all the drop legs 1/2" and yes, it is overkill, but like my dad did, I do most things overkill.

 

[BD1]

There isn't much difference in price so I say 3/4''. I did mine using Propress fittings . That's really nice and clean. IF you have a horizontal main and multiple lines that will be going down, set tees up and take off the top and then go down. You'll have drier air. We usually pitch the horizontal main down and at the end of main add a valve for blowdown. If there is a drop at the end with elbow looking down , just leave tee for the take off and add valve off bottom of tee for blowdown.

 

[sberry]

Why do we think blast cabs need more air? A 3/8 hose will drain that comp in a hurry on blasting. The real use for larger lines in a small shop is almost exclusively impact.
Get a grip,, this is not to the op but to some ofhers, this is a 24.ft garage, not 240 . There is a little difference in air velocity at hi demand between sizes,,, at hi demand, levels mostly above those found here . Using a single size is so much simpler, less and smaller fittings closer to the end use of 3/8 hose anyway.
Run it level or down a pinch to drive any condensate down to the end, a drip leg with a filter tapped from it or in some cases the filter itself.
Put a ball valve on the comp, hose to hard line, line to a filter with a t after to allow a couple of taps.
Room will already be at a premium here, fit something simple that can be adapted or added to. Hard to build shelves, cabs around every fitting, many in the end not used. This is a 1 or 2 drop shop, use a t to add extra equipment from a drop.

 

[PhantomEB]

I am planning to run 1/2” the perimeter of my 24 square. It will see a decent sized desiccant dryer right off the compressor, a 50’ reel at the very back of one run at the big door. This will see a shutoff valve as I don’t need moisture collecting at the bottom of the loops with this rarely used but want just in case of emergencies.

I probably will do drops in each corner in addition to the one with the reel as well halfway down each side walls and 25% along the head wall.

Why? Cause I can and I like versatility!

 

[sberry]

A human can jump farther than that. Not assisted by 5 hp. I have sandblasted a LOT from 50 ft hose reel hooked to a pot using 2x the air that will make, runs the comps down in a hurry.
10 cfm in the op a case, 15 for a short time. A 1/2 air gun rules demand here, heavy one a bit over 20 cfm. I tend to doubt the real need for 3/4 or inch guns and if it was so would be most practical to tap at the comp with a large hose. That is truely speculative but most likely accurate.

 

[sberry]

I am planning to run 1/2” the perimeter of my 24 square. It will see a decent sized desiccant dryer right off the compressor, a 50’ reel at the very back of one run at the big door. This will see a shutoff valve as I don’t need moisture collecting at the bottom of the loops with this rarely used but want just in case of emergencies.

I probably will do drops in each corner in addition to the one with the reel as well halfway down each side walls and 25% along the head wall.

Why? Cause I can and I like versatility!

You can run a hundred drops if you want, its your garage but the OP and others often want some practical advice from those that been thete and done this more than once. The point is to give adequate service vs kust seeung hoe much a guy can hook up with the forst brainstorm.
At some point its just parking money on the walls, a guy will find he uses 1 or 2 pieces and the hose from a reel.

 

[sberry]

As contrary as it sounds pre planning a lot of it is a poor way to do some things. In a garage like this park the comp, hook it up, put valve on and screw fil/reg to it and a 50 ft hose or hang up a reel. Build other stuff,,, do some work, get a feel for it, make some changes, ehen it settles pipe a hydrant or 2 where needed. One good one is worth several poorly placed pieces.
My neighbor who was a master and then some, had it all at one point and retired to a smaller version ended up with 120v comp in the corner with 25 ft of hose coiled up and another 25 if he.needed to go out in the drive. Super simple and worked, met demand. Its just an example, got another bud worked a career from a 50 ft hose in 2x this space.
I am all for some tailoring but to leave beginners eith the impression all this is needed and greatly improved their life is not accurate.
A lot of the speculation is from giys havnt even done it yes, still in planning. This is why make some of these points, the blast cab is a poster case.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

3/4" is way overkill. All the production line pneumatic runs I've ever run were 1/2".

Tommy

 

[MrSurly]

I think the OP's plan works great with 1/2" all the way. Having the extra 20gal tank gives the perfect opportunity to 'plumb through' the 20gal so that all the air feeds through that tank as a catch tank 'after-cooler' with a water drain on it. Even better if your situation allows placing the second tank at some distance from the compressor to allow more cooling time. Everyone has ideas, some are great, some don't apply. I over-killed mine to the max with welded 1" SS and six drops, but I wouldn't suggest anyone follow that path (It was 'what I had').
OP, unless your compressor is *very unusual* it will only have a 1/2" NPT outlet connection. stepping *up* to 3/4 will gain you nothing in flow rate. Even if it has 3/4, it doesn't change the fact that having a 3/4 doesn't do anything but waste money on too-big pipe. The only scenario where the 3/4 pipe would actually serve a purpose would be if you had a run all the way to an end use connection that maintained the full 3/4 internal diameter all the way to the outlet (or to at least a 1/2 QC) OR if you were actually supplying multiple workstations where several people were using air at once.
Proven ideas that work and do apply: There are two parts to this; 1. make your main horizontal run drop at least two inches in 24' so that moisture will run to the far end and add a drip leg and valve to drain water there. 2. Make any drops along that line with tees looking *UP* and then piping over and down to the drop.

Make as many drops as you'd like. I sometimes will have two or three(!) air tools that I'm using in the same space, switching between them. I don't care for constantly affixing hoses so two drops is a win for me in an area. You can always just add a tee/splitter as well.

 

[sberry]

I can overlap the floor space too. Some of the worst places I have worked and seen were commercial shops and it was costing them. Usually tight *** business types, have seen a couple tire shops that are outright pitiful.
Some of the nicest ones on this forum are quite simple and very well thought out.
Some under 1k sq ft can be served by a single hose or reel and fixxed whip for bench etc. Above 1k 2 works and normally another outlet for every additional thousand ft.
I have a little more as I have a large shop, with a move I could really cover 4k with 2 and the rest with another including reaching aprons. But,,, I have a couple more, tapped from mostly the same equipment and to keep hoses off long stretches of floor with some overlap.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I always get a kick out of sberry's voice of reason on air line discussions. I'm kind of the same way when people post about putting in electrical receptacles every 6 feet in a two car garage. Sure, it's handy but it is overkill.

 

[ez-duzit]

Make the runs with 3/4" and the drops using 1/2".

 

[sberry]

I have made all the mistakes is why I can relate. I remember an old timer I asked about one of the first lines I ran, he recommend 1/2 and of course I went inch,,,, ha When I look at my lic master pluma bud,,, 50 yrs in the biz and he still has the same 1/2 lines in his shop he started out with.
Same for some electric, my master neighbor still has the 10 cable to a welder outlet he put in 40 yrs ago,,,, this is a guy who could have any wire or fitting for free.
Another has 2 tool circuits in a garage full of machines. Anything not fixed gets pulled out and hooked to a heavy cord reel. Its often a hard concept to grasp,,,, 10 machines and a dozen outlets,,,, 1 used at a time. Got a couple more buds that way, one a sparky, 2 circuits, one for parasitic and some lights and another for power tools.

Another thing, I have a place my 1/2 has a T, goes to another reel for outdoor. What would be the worst that could ghappen if someone was sanding and someone filled a tire? I have ran 2 tools, can barely tell the difference. Not like its going to short or blow a fuse, so,,, it has 5 more # drop for a few seconds twice a year.
In small garages one wouldn't even be able to notice. Whats the likelihood that 2 20 cfm tools will be running full blast from this 3 hp comp? I have had 2 tools hooked up, I can,,, but its really rather rare for me, most air is one at a time and even if I had to change tools its still super rare for me. Very rare I use cut off, then wire wheel, then cut off then rotary file. Would save less than a couple minutes and a dozen changes in a year. Not worth it to add another 100 ft or over size pipe just in case. I don't have to die grind when I use a 3/4 impact.
A bit similar to welding and air comp,,, do you absolutely got to strike an arc while the air is on and can you stop and wait a minute for it to finish, resume welding? My Bud has a 60 breaker and a heavy 5 hp comp,,,, never tripped it, got that and 15A air cond.
One of the guys here, Falcon I believe has a 70 on his and he has a long list of tools. Same for my storage building, the only time I ever pulled more than 20A was during construction. I got wire everywhere, a couple of cords and a hose reel would actually have provided all the utilities I have ever used in it.

 

[atch]

Voice of actual experience here:

I have a 30' x 60' shop (1800 s.f.; to state the obvious). I've had it for 18 years. I have a compressor with 5hp (iirc) and 60 gallon tank (again, iirc).

Note: it's cold here right now and I don't feel like going out there to verify these.

The compressor sits about 20' down one of the long walls from a corner.

At the compressor tank I have first a ball valve, then a tee with one leg going to a regulator and quick connect fitting and the other leg going directly to an unregulated quick connect fitting. About 10' towards the center of the shop from there I have an old mag wheel mounted on a bench that has about 50' of hose on it. I can reach anywhere in the shop that I need air from there. It's about 20' to the 10' x 10' door so it can run about 30' out into the driveway with what's on the wheel. I have another 100' or so of hose stored on a wall that I can use if I need to go further out the door.

For 18 years this has served me very well. I suppose that I could get fancy and spend money that I don't have and run some hard lines around the ceiling but have never seen a need to. Maybe (and I stress MAYBE) someday I'll hard pipe to my blast cabinet but probably not.

b-t-w; I use this shop by myself so never have two items of equipment running concurrently.

 

[Bretny]

Your garage is the same size as mine. Why run the wall? Run across the ceiling.

 

[sberry]

Running on the ceiling could save a lot of **** in the way.

 

[-Brent-]

Beside the drop at my compressor and my reel coming through the ceiling at the center of the shop, I put one additional drop at my workbench, which I've NEVER used.

The other two drops are used pretty much equally. I don't regret the 3rd drop, obviously, but I thought it was something I'd use and haven't.

My point is, maybe don't do the full drop at the 3rd and 4th spots. Put a ****** and a valve (or just a tee and a plug) and leave it. If you find that you're really needing all those drops, you have a smart spot to expand.

 

[sberry]

Voice of actual experience here:

I have a 30' x 60' shop (1800 s.f.; to state the obvious). I've had it for 18 years. I have a compressor with 5hp (iirc) and 60 gallon tank (again, iirc).

Note: it's cold here right now and I don't feel like going out there to verify these.

The compressor sits about 20' down one of the long walls from a corner.

At the compressor tank I have first a ball valve, then a tee with one leg going to a regulator and quick connect fitting and the other leg going directly to an unregulated quick connect fitting. About 10' towards the center of the shop from there I have an old mag wheel mounted on a bench that has about 50' of hose on it. I can reach anywhere in the shop that I need air from there. It's about 20' to the 10' x 10' door so it can run about 30' out into the driveway with what's on the wheel. I have another 100' or so of hose stored on a wall that I can use if I need to go further out the door.

For 18 years this has served me very well. I suppose that I could get fancy and spend money that I don't have and run some hard lines around the ceiling but have never seen a need to. Maybe (and I stress MAYBE) someday I'll hard pipe to my blast cabinet but probably not.

b-t-w; I use this shop by myself so never have two items of equipment running concurrently.

This is good. It matches the scale. You are not out anything and it would be easy to tailor it further if and when you wanted. Good location to start with reduces a lot of need for extra plumbing. You have a service valve and can work on the system at any time and a way to go around the reg for extra poop for an impact if needed. 1 simple reg runs it all. Good fundamentals.

 

[sberry]

Beside the drop at my compressor and my reel coming through the ceiling at the center of the shop, I put one additional drop at my workbench, which I've NEVER used.

The other two drops are used pretty much equally. I don't regret the 3rd drop, obviously, but I thought it was something I'd use and haven't.

My point is, maybe don't do the full drop at the 3rd and 4th spots. Put a ****** and a valve (or just a tee and a plug) and leave it. If you find that you're really needing all those drops, you have a smart spot to expand.

This works. I replumbed mine after a long while. I eliminated a lot of stuff and added none. I now use all the stuff I have connected.

 

[MrSurly]

I still like the OP's plan (1/2") and I won't be offended if he puts in as many drops as he wishes.
Good luck to him.

 

[finn]

More isn’t always better.

My shop has, at various places, surface mounted electrical conduit with multiple outlet drops, multiple air compressor drops, some exposed cold water piping to the sink, bathroom, and two sillcocks, some exposed hot water piping to the sink and bathroom, exposed radiant supply and return lines to the (newer) addition, and probably more.

All the drops limit flexibility in mounting storage cabinets, shelves, etc on the wall.

Overkill isn’t a good place to be. Intelligent design is preferred.

 

[camaro77]

thanks guys for all the responses I will do it all in 1/2 inch I just like things neat and clean this is my second garage but first house/garage that I own. I build race cars sometimes I have a friend or second person working with me no blast cabinet just trying to keep all kinds of lines running and getting tangled everywhere. I will be honest I have worked for yrs with 1 hose and it ***** always stealing the line. plan to have a welding bench with a few drops rt there so I don't need to keep changing out tools or die grinders. I have a hose reel I have recessed into the ceiling and also putting a fitting thru the way to the back yard parking area incase I need to do something inside the trailer or in that area. this is my OCD if Im building it I want to do it once.

 

[Firebrick43]

At work we have 40 acres under roof and 3 1000 cfm screw compressors with a 4 th for back up. There are more air drops than outlets as everything is on air every tool is air.

We have found its best at benches instead of multiple drops to just make a manifold with black iron tees and ******* and mount it under the bottom edge of the bench or along a leg of the bench. Some deburr benches have 6 different die grinders, sanders, and dynabrades.

Most of the time we mount a whip to the tool 4' of 6' Long and the whip connects to the manifold or hose. Die grinders may have a 1/4" whip for the ultimate flexibility. I have seen some drastic drops in performance with some tools due to hose size. 3/8 hose of any length(20' plus) can be limiting to DA sanders, air angle grinders, and impact guns. 1/2 hose will have you cussing due to weight. If you keep your runs 1/2" pipe and your hoses short(even 3/8) it's not so bad.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

I still like the OP's plan (1/2") and I won't be offended if he puts in as many drops as he wishes.
Good luck to him.

Exactly…another armchair compressor-general here. For my future shop, I’ve squirrelled away offcuts of 22mm copper tubing (roughly 3/4”) to make the main run and 15mm (roughly 1/2”) for the drops. The material is free* so why the hell not? It’s total overkill when a standard hose-reel would cover 80% of my use, but I don’t intend to set up another shop before I depart this planet, so screw it.

I *might* have rescued some 1” industrial filter/regulator hardware from a clear out at a previous employer too. Who you callin’ a Packrat?

*Free as in cost $0. Not free as in I have to store it somewhere….

To the OP, go for it, and post plenty of pictures.

Matt

 

[Jazz1]

As contrary as it sounds pre planning a lot of it is a poor way to do some things. In a garage like this park the comp, hook it up, put valve on and screw fil/reg to it and a 50 ft hose or hang up a reel. Build other stuff,,, do some work, get a feel for it, make some changes, ehen it settles pipe a hydrant or 2 where needed. One good one is worth several poorly placed pieces.
My neighbor who was a master and then some, had it all at one point and retired to a smaller version ended up with 120v comp in the corner with 25 ft of hose coiled up and another 25 if he.needed to go out in the drive. Super simple and worked, met demand. Its just an example, got another bud worked a career from a 50 ft hose in 2x this space.
I am all for some tailoring but to leave beginners eith the impression all this is needed and greatly improved their life is not accurate.
A lot of the speculation is from giys havnt even done it yes, still in planning. This is why make some of these points, the blast cab is a poster case.

Got to a agree. I run 1/2 copper in garage but for sandblasting in my wigwam i got 100' of 3/8" rubber line and no issues sandblasting or using impact gun. 5hp 18 CFM @90