If you come out of one tank and then toss another tank in down stream not only do you get to hold more air they call it a wet and dry tank system. The theory is you collect the water in the first tank and the second tank helps cool air again and traps any more water. The second would be the dry. Hoping you have it far enough to let the air cool down on the way to it. I have seen some very dry air done this way.
Air Lines for Compressor
- Thread starter weems
- Start date
Thermal coefficient of copper = 401
Thermal coefficient of cast iron = 55
Thermal coefficient of stainless steel = 16
Thermal coefficient of most plastics < 1
In other words, copper is a vastly better conductor of heat than iron, which is a vastly better etc etc. Just for reference.
Thermal coefficient of cast iron = 55
Thermal coefficient of stainless steel = 16
Thermal coefficient of most plastics < 1
In other words, copper is a vastly better conductor of heat than iron, which is a vastly better etc etc. Just for reference.
Dragster Racer
Well-known member
The vertical lines are the most important in my setup, the horizontal lines were chosen because of that's what they had in pre threaded line when I bought mine. After using air for a while especially on a humid day I will get moisture out of the ball valve at the bottom of the first vertical, less at the second & almost nothing at the third. I took an IR temp gun to the pipes after running it a while & after the first 10' it was ambient temp. A setup like mine could be done using very short horizontal lengths where it would take up little wall space & still use 40-50' of pipe so you would get virtually no water in your separator. From everything I've read you should have at least 25' of pipe & the more the better up to about 50' after which there isn't much improvement in drying ability. The diameter of the pipe you use affects the velocity of the air thru the line at a given CFM, the larger the diameter the slower it goes thru & the more cooling effect you get up to a point. I used 1" but going much larger than this wouldn't gain much because according to a formula that was posted here a while back at 20CFM the air is moving something like 7 feet per second & has plenty of time to cool down & drop out the water. As a bonus the lines give a bit of added capacity, I can remove the lugs on 2 wheels with just the air in the lines with the tank turned off.
SgtRauksauff
Well-known member
Actually, if you google "franzinator" you'll find a bunch of links to the concept, some of them even here on GJ. I was heavily searching around for an aftercooler or dryer or something, and almost ready to use some baseboard heater pipe with fins and a fan, or some copper tube in a bucket of water, when I ran across some mentions of this one, and since I already had some of the stuff lying around for it, and it was a LOT cheaper than finding any K or L finned copper pipe, I decided to give it a try. There seems to be quite a bit of drama about it sometimes, but it's worked flippin' awesomely for me so far.
Thruxton, you bring up a very good point: copper conducts heat much better than iron
I'm absolutely no expert, and could very well be completely wrong, that's why I like learning about things. But what about it's emissivity, or the heat that it radiates from itself once it's been conducted to?
Here's a list of a bunch of Emissivity Coefficients of different Materials:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html
Here's an explanation of Radiation Heat Transfer itself:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/radiation-heat-transfer-d_431.html
I kind of thought that the radiated heat was more the issue than conducted heat in this instance.
Every time I start reading one of these threads, and find different information to read, I''m like, "dang, maybe I should do it differently!".
Now I'm wondering, what removes moisture best by cooling the air inside the lines quicker, copper conducting a lot but radiating a little, or iron conducting a little but radiating a lot? what happens if you take K copper (extra thick, so more thermal mass, maximum conductivity) and paint it black (maximum emissivity) ?
--sarge
Dragster Racer
Well-known member
How do you guys who do the copper keep from burning the wall etc when you put it together? I have not done much brazing, although I have done some. Do you try to do most of the assembly away from the wall and then only do a joint or two against the wall?
Nick DL
Well-known member
I haven't done any work like this yet but just guessing that maybe you could use some aluminum foil or something similar to shield the area. Whenever I get around to running pipe for my compressor I will try to do as much off the wall as possible and then do like I said for the remainder of the connections. I am sure that those who have done it will give you their recommendations & tips, which I hope to learn from too.
Gixerfixer
Well-known member
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
I used to use old asbestos shingles but nowadays a few pieces of Hardie backer board work.
Your air lines should be Outside of the wall.
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Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
They are not outside for access, they are outside for cooling. A contractor should know how to do them right the first time, shame on you.
They are not outside for access, they are outside for cooling. A contractor should know how to do them right the first time, shame on you.
I use a IR refrigerated dryer in the other garage where the compressor is located so yea- I did it right the 1st time.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Most of these guys don't use a refrigerated dryer so PLEASE explain that when you talk about putting air lines inside walls.
StaggeringGoat
Well-known member
This is how I have my compressors set up. I have several smaller 120v compressors that I use all plumbed together. They all feed into a 21 gallon air tank which stays almost completely cool and dry. Each individual compressor has a tank that gets warm but by the time it gets to the 21 gallon tank the air has mostly cooled and dried, a little bit of moisture comes out of the tank but not much.
I'm working on a new air drop right now, connects directly to my hot little 5 gallon hotdog compressor, runs to a 5 gallon propane tank "expansion tank", which then hooks up to a 10' copper air drop with a valve a the end. I'm not fininshed yet but I expect it to remove most all of the tiny bit of remaining moisture in my system.
PS - all this and I don't have any air "pipes", it's all hooked together with 3/8 rubber air hose.
Most of these guys don't use a refrigerated dryer so PLEASE explain that when you talk about putting air lines inside walls.
I think you are over-reacting. I just showed a picture to start.
The only reason I have a dryer is because it came off a remodel job we did. Price? Free.
Do I need it? Probably not. I don't paint & don't sandblast anymore.
I grind, cut, use an air jack, use air for the lift & blow stuff up.
Would I have water issues without it? No. Compressor is 80 feet away as the piping runs & is all copper. Piping in the other garage is all exposed so it's giving off heat in the 1st 20 feet of pipe. Before the dryer- I ran a commercial water seperator about 20 feet from compressor (a convient location at the time). While the compressor would collect a minute amount of water- the separator was always dry. With the total developed length of piping, it wouldn't matter if the pipe was inside or outside the wall in my finished new garage.
I'll take you up on that beer.