Air Lines INSIDE walls

[Augus7us]

I still have to do mine as well and after reading countless threads on here and **** all over the net, I think I'm going with Rapidair's maxline product. You just can't beat the price and running it in the ceiling in one long line and around corners and such will be much cheaper and easier to do.

My two cents anyway.

 

[gagecalman]

If I Recall Correctly, Type L tubing is light weight and thin walled, Type M is medium wall and somewhat thicker walled, Type K is heavy walled and has the thickest walls.

Incorrect.
Type K has thicker walls than Type L, and Type L walls are thicker than Type M.

 

[sberry]

I have done this a lot. I got it better the last time I did it due to the fact we had fine tuned the locations, really put an eye towards reduction rather than addition, I moved a couple valves. I see a couple minor changes I would make again to my own but got to resist the obsessive nature and let it go even though the fix is easy,,,,, wont make any difference.
A good hose location is worth 10 hydrants. Some shops could fundamentally use a couple couplers, a couple valves. As a side note I didnt even put drip legs on mosto mine, 2 circuits none and 1 there has never been a drop down.
It dont all got to go way in the ceiling, I ran some down behind, main reason for ceiling runs is to go over doors. I moved 1 reel, made it better and eliminate 40 ft of pipe. Used the pipe to feed 2 things. Hooked it on a regulated branch line extension.
Got 2 spots I turn a local service valve off. Its all old stuff, I use it more occasionally and is located so it doesnt add work to use the valve. I actually do have a 4th circuit I do use and comes off the manifold its own direction and is so I can shut the rest of the place off and still have an operating circuit. Was nice when building the rest of it. I got some **** tailored for convenience but I really could do the work with 2 reels. I use 2 and some 3 reels and 3 fixxed hose whips
The whips are designed for no moving parts, simple hanger with the hose the right length. Very little hose on the floor and sometimes none.

 

[sberry]

I have a couple extra than it takes as it can be brought both directions, its a couple extra pieces hose and 1 reel but makes it so easy but most not in the original design. Some air velocity is all right, keeps it clean. 1/2 the tool use in my shop is 1/2 100 ft. If I was using tubing would have went 3/4 I have 1/2 feeds the sandblaster, happen to have another 25 ft 1/2 so I use it to the pot, I have ran it with 3/8 hose, a lot, a 50 ft reel and I run out of air. I cant really tell the difference, I think the smaller hose is better, it slows it down a little and should turn it down some but I am really done or staging by the time any of it is an issue and to take advantage longer runs would add air from my truck. , changing or upsizing the pipe or hose still wouldnt make any significand difference.
Gets more than it needs now. We could be doing the work from 100 ft of 3/8 hose, more power would be irrelevent 99.99% of the time. little bigger makes it a little better and our biggest load is never beyond 80%, cant even tell 2 operators are on with common tools even if they are on the same circuit. When I am using lots of air it isnt cause I have men going like maniacs but is due to sanding where I can run it out of air unless I turn on the demand if I work hard enough, usually finish before running out of air,,, better couplers, higher flow, more power got nothing to do with it. Can run a comp out of air with a simple old air fitting they been using forever.
My bud a crazed body man uses a common fittng on 8 inch DA, doesnt slow it down. Most guys dont even own one, I dont. The sandblaster doesnt require the largest line, it uses a lot of air but not in bursts like impact and in many cases, maybe most once its sufficient to do the work whats it matter if you can get more? The work in garages is rather intermittent. Air velocity loss mayu be worth it if the load was high enough and running 24/7 but rotating tires, other mechanic work the real hours is few. Sanding some difference but, I got to turn the tools down anyway, they got too much, its why they got regulators on them instead of power boosters.

 

[sberry]

Had a bud used 50 ft of air hose a whole career. Not sure why I never insist a time or 2 but he didnt give a ****, it worked well enough. Turned off a ball valve at the comp and religiously drained the comp a couple times a year if he thought about it.
Bigger buildings start making a difference, I got nothing against hanging some hose out of the way on occasion. My neighbor had a box of fittings, said whacha gonna do , he says plumb, I said,,, wait a min, look, the comp has a valve, string 50 ft to a reel and call it a day. It kinda dawned on him, he wasnt working shop like but blowing some weekend tires up on the boat trailer and easy was good. Reel will reach anything in it and outside 50 ft. 1 thing, 1 hose.

 

[sberry]

I was gonna have 2 reels in my storage and I still could if I extend something but really 1 with 100 ft would be as good. In fact I made up another air tank I could leave there I forget about, that works too for a tire.

If I was to do some again would consider a max line in the ceiling, simply run it no joint hose fashion. might even go so far to home run a couple vs tapping or t. Less fitting. Could do it with 100 ft.
I had a 1/2 hose in the ceiling in one place where I put it for the hoist, I finally wanted my hose back for something and said,,, now or never and piped it.

 

[bowtie1972]

I know I'm late but what I did was , 3/4 water pipe for your sprinklers, I ran up & down in the walls 4 times ( water has a hard time running up hill) with a 8" drain tube that pokes out of the drywall. Then I went all the way around my shop with drops ( for drains ) with bib fitting , I also have a air hose reel next to my car lift. The white plastic pipe is rated 750psi , that's a lot of air pressure, Never Had an issue in 10 years. the only water I end up draining is from my air compressor.

 

[bowtie1972]

OH !!! the white pipe was just flexible to run inside the wood stud's

 

[Firebrick43]

Pvc work hardens. Every pressure change is a cycle. Air, depending on the regulator, distribution pipe size and compressed size is always going up and down if used often.

Your pvc will burst even if painted, even if you keep oil out of it.

Even buried mains water lines there are two choices. Pvc and HDPE. The know if they use pvc that eventually it will burst depending on how well the maintain pressure. The only advantage pvc has over hdpe is its much more resistant to rocks rubbing holes so areas with rocky soil they use pvc.

As others mention pvc shatters.

Pex is not only soft, it will not actually come apart, it will just zipper.

As for truck air line, I have seen it fail as soon as 10 years, and the nylon industrial versions typically will not last past 20 years before it starts cracking and splitting. The worse brand is festo.

Copper is the cheapest solution amortized over the life of a building

 

[klassenl]

Copper is the cheapest solution amortized over the life of a building

That is a very broad stroke.

It's probably true in some situations but probably not all.

 

[ScaldedDog]

I'm doing mine in copper right now, though not inside the walls. I looked at RapidAir, but it was crazy expensive compared to copper. 3/4 main line with 1/2 drops to three hose reels and a dedicated lift outlet, valves for shutoff and drains on each leg.

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[rayra]

LOL at 'work hardening' of PVC. Millions of homes with PVC plumbing and mains. PVC sprinkler systems cycled every day or two for decades.

damned pedantic nonsense.


eta

https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/resource-center/strength-of-pvc-pipe-with-strength-chart/

1/2" Sched80 has a burst PSI rating of 2,700. 20x your regulator setting.

all the lore about PVC for airlines is garbage.

 

[The Cobbler]

LOL at 'work hardening' of PVC. Millions of homes with PVC plumbing and mains. PVC sprinkler systems cycled every day or two for decades.

damned pedantic nonsense.


eta

....

1/2" Sched80 has a burst PSI rating of 2,700. 20x your regulator setting.

all the lore about PVC for airlines is garbage.

I bet those ratings are for water, not gas . pop a balloon full of air, what happens?
pop a balloon full of water, what happens?
the one full of air pops, flies around and the one with water drops

 

[Stuart in MN]

People often are confused by the burst rating of PVC for water, thinking it also applies for compressed air.

 

[mike93lx]

People often are confused by the burst rating of PVC for water, thinking it also applies for compressed air.

He isn't confused. It is willful ignorance and trolling at this point. Probably spent a bunch on pvc airline and doesn't want to admit it was stupid

 

[matt_i]

Burst rating for PVC is about as good as burst rating for an overhead crane.

You want "working" loads or psi...

In any case PVC fast-fractures which is more or less an explosion. The metal pipes won't.

 

[Stuart in MN]

In any case PVC fast-fractures which is more or less an explosion. The metal pipes won't.

This is the real issue, PVC doesn't have the ductility needed for air lines. If a metal air line is damaged, it just cracks open and lets the air out. If a PVC air line is damaged, it tends to shatter and then shrapnel is thrown all over the place. I've personally witnessed it happen.

 

[Bradbilt]

Just a FYI guys. My building is 5000 sq/ft and 125x40

Well I priced out Everything in 3/4 and the rapid air setup with the FastPipe and fitting was $2600. Nope, I'm not going there

Copper it is I guess. In 3/4"

 

[mike93lx]

Just a FYI guys. My building is 5000 sq/ft and 125x40

Well I priced out Everything in 3/4 and the rapid air setup with the FastPipe and fitting was $2600. Nope, I'm not going there

Copper it is I guess. In 3/4"

Why not PEX?

 

[Bradbilt]

Why not PEX?

because nowhere does PEX state it can handle air pressure

And when is the last time you heard copper has failed for air lines? I never have

 

[csp]

Pex-Al-Pex is rated for air pressure.

I've never looked at the cost of it however. My shop is 3/4" copper and I wouldn't do it any other way unless they begin to give away Rapid Air kits.

 

[ScaldedDog]

Are you going to sweat it? You might hunt around and see if you can find someone to ProPress it if you buy the fittings and assemble it.

If you sweat it, check fittings at a plumbing supply place and compare them to what you get at HD. The latter are not good, but I don't know if the former are better.

Mark

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Jim 68 cuda]

The problem with PVC pipe is that when it does explode, they can't find all the pieces in your body.
I used Rapidair in my garage. The builder offered to run it behind the walls, but I thought it looked good enough for a surface mount and thought it would be alot easier to change or repair with a surface mount.

 

[mike93lx]

because nowhere does PEX state it can handle air pressure

And when is the last time you heard copper has failed for air lines? I never have

Never even implied copper has failed. That isn't enough reason for most people to do it. But it is your money, time and shop. Do what makes you happy

 

[sberry]

Where the hose would really gain would be big lot runs turns in high ceilings where the labor is hi and a leak hard to fix. I don't know the fitting cost but might make the long run with proprietary and finish it with common fittings. I might put adapter on then to 1/2 steel.
I don't always put a drain, if no water not needed and even collect in the filter.

 

[Firebrick43]

LOL at 'work hardening' of PVC. Millions of homes with PVC plumbing and mains. PVC sprinkler systems cycled every day or two for decades.

damned pedantic nonsense.


eta

https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/resource-center/strength-of-pvc-pipe-with-strength-chart/

1/2" Sched80 has a burst PSI rating of 2,700. 20x your regulator setting.

all the lore about PVC for airlines is garbage.

Personally seen multiple failures of pvc in water lines and fittings for no other reason than work hardening(cyclic fatigue). Since you bring up sprinklers
http://http://grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_maintenance_perplexity_pvcfitting_failures/

Lots more results available on just sprinkler systems.

Posting burst pressures makes it obvious you don’t understand why those figuresare unreliable.

The science.

https://plasticpipe.org/pdf/mid-fatigue-plastic-water-pipe-01-12-12.pdf

As for being a pedant, I guess for someone with formal schooling ending at high school I should be honored.

Since you seem to be calling out nouns, maybe you should look up philistine?

 

[sberry]

I seen it blow up. Seen shards.

 

[sweetk30]

4 bay shop here in town has had pex for there air for close to 10 years now no problems i have heard of at all .

 

[Stuart in MN]

People do things all the time with materials that aren't designed or approved for that use, and they may seem to have gotten away with it, but that statement should include the words "so far". That material may fail tomorrow, you just never know.

 

[infinkc]

copper > rapidair > black iron > pex > pvc

 

[Bradbilt]

Pex-Al-Pex is rated for air pressure.

I've never looked at the cost of it however. My shop is 3/4" copper and I wouldn't do it any other way unless they begin to give away Rapid Air kits.

Unfortunately It is not rated for enough pressure at a specific temperature.

I run 175PSI. it is only rated for 200psi @ 75* and 125 @ 180* I dont like running that close to the limit

 

[sberry]

I can make this one only 1 little piece better and it doesnt matter. The valve is on the hi pressure side, acts as a coupling in this case, is as simple as it gets, is a local disconnect switch. If I would have fed this with tubing or hose would have screwed in to the valve and filreg the same way. Hose barbed right to the reel, only coupling is at the end for the tool. Bout 40$ in regs and fittings with valve.
I aint scared to take a valve off in salvage on occasion, I collect that stuff and air is a good place for using common 1/2.

 

[Bradbilt]

Ok guys. All the pipe is run, soldered, 12 drops are in and fittings are sealed. Main run goes thru rafter and drops down thru walls.
It has held 14psi for 2 weeks.

But now I realized I should NOT of uses galvanized EMT clamps to hold it in place due to galvanic reaction between the two different metals.
So I am going to EVERY clamp, pulling it loose and putting 2 layers of electrical tape asa barrier between the 2 different metals