Air lines

[MF294-4]

First time to post. Reading all the posts for a year or more has motivated me to replacing my thirty year old pvc lines. I have bought over $200 of black pipe and surley that much in fittings and haven't even got started. I wish I had of went with the Paxair system. Was in a transportation building that had it last week and what a neet install and easy to modify.

 

[MikeGyver]

Take the black pipe back and get the other stuff. No sense doing all that work and thinking about the other stuff the whole time.

 

[BD1]

Where you at ? if near me I'll bring my pipe machine and dies over !

 

[NUTTSGT]

I myself have been gathering the pieces a little at a time to replace mine with black pipe.

 

[akdiesel]

The pipe you have will be fine for years. Unless you really want to install the other brand, I am sure the local store will take it back with a credit return if you don't have the receipt.
If you stick with the black pipe just put in some "T's" along the run for future upgrades.

 

[BD1]

YES, PVC, bomb waiting to blow.

 

[Torque1st]

If you think steel and copper pipe is expensive wait until you price out some of those industrial 'systems'. Then price out unobtainium fittings for some of the 'obsolete' industrial systems.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Galvanized pipe and fittings is the way to go and much less costly them copper and specialized systems

Ron

 

[R7237]

RapidAir Maxline 3/4 inch. Master kit $199

 

[Pure Oil]

Galvanized pipe and fittings is the way to go and much less costly them copper and specialized systems

Ron

I agree! When I was setting mine up I gave it some thought as people seem to get the "gas" black pipe because they relate gas to air - but - the air from a compressor will have moisture - so therefore get the galvenized as it was meant to last with moisture/water.

 

[BD1]

Actually, Galvanized IS NOT the material of choice. It is also not recommended for natural gas or propane. Main reason is the the galvanized make flake off and plug regulators, filters, lubricators, tools, and prevent them from closing.

 

[Torque1st]

Actually, Galvanized IS NOT the material of choice. It is also not recommended for natural gas or propane. Main reason is the the galvanized make flake off and plug regulators, filters, lubricators, tools, and prevent them from closing.

That does not seem to be a problem for home shop airlines like it is for natural gas.

Always make sure to purge ANY pipe system after assy to clear out chips and debris.

 

[Falcon67]

I thought that's what filters were for - to get plugged, then cleaned or replaced. I use a mix of gal and iron - never has an issue with flakes. I put a filter in front of everything. Get a box of screw on disposable filters if it's a worry. They might be $4 each if that much.

 

[darkk]

Personally if price is not important, I would do all black pipe. But I already have plenty of Pex tubing left over from a massive plumbing upgrade and addition to our home so that's what it's going to be...

 

[Ron Lombardo]

" Actually, Galvanized IS NOT the material of choice. It is also not recommended for natural gas or propane. Main reason is the the galvanized make flake off and plug regulators, filters, lubricators, tools, and prevent them from closing."

Thats a myth ... we use galvanized pipe for NYC Transit, NJ Transit, Drug Companies for std compressed air as always with a filter at the discharge location. I have been installing it for 28 years and have yet to take apart a galavanized pipe to see flaking. I can tell you for sure I have found flaking inside Steel Pipe all the time ... copper is the best but too exspensive and Stainless would be the best but again cost is a factor.

The biggest issue is the system technique is 90% of the time pipe wrong ... the trunk line should be run pitched back to the compressor and the branches are to be teees faced UP and branch pipe taken off the tiop and dropped down the wall. Eliminates a lot of moisture problems.

In any case standing water is a non issue so pipe corrosion would be eliminated if pipe propoerly.

Ron

 

[Ron Lombardo]

I checked the MAXAIR specs and the 175 @ 70degree could be an issue for me.... I blast auto parts at about 160 with my Igresoll and Rand 2 stage and there has been a few occations I;m sure the line felat hotter then 70 degrees ... also the shock factor of starting and stopping has to be less of becoming an issue suing plastic pipe? Looks fast and cheap ... but I line bursting at 160 would definatley leave a mark ... for std shop application looks like a nice do it yourselfer product.

Ron

 

[BD1]

" Actually, Galvanized IS NOT the material of choice. It is also not recommended for natural gas or propane. Main reason is the the galvanized make flake off and plug regulators, filters, lubricators, tools, and prevent them from closing."

Thats a myth ... we use galvanized pipe for NYC Transit, NJ Transit, Drug Companies for std compressed air as always with a filter at the discharge location. I have been installing it for 28 years and have yet to take apart a galavanized pipe to see flaking. I can tell you for sure I have found flaking inside Steel Pipe all the time ... copper is the best but too exspensive and Stainless would be the best but again cost is a factor.

The biggest issue is the system technique is 90% of the time pipe wrong ... the trunk line should be run pitched back to the compressor and the branches are to be teees faced UP and branch pipe taken off the tiop and dropped down the wall. Eliminates a lot of moisture problems.

In any case standing water is a non issue so pipe corrosion would be eliminated if pipe propoerly.

Ron

Maybe in New york. ALL our specifications clearly specify black pipe or copper. Galvanized is not acceptable.

 

[sirsloop]

I used 1/2" harbor freight Goodyear hose... Very easy install and works great

 

[rlitman]

Maybe in New york. ALL our specifications clearly specify black pipe or copper. Galvanized is not acceptable.

I don't see it being a problem, IF it has a filter at the discharge location, as it said in the post.

Galvanized IS a problem with natural gas though. For one, you don't have filters in natural gas, and for another, the odorant is known to slowly eat the zinc.

 

[aka Larry]

"The biggest issue is the system technique is 90% of the time pipe wrong ... the trunk line should be run pitched back to the compressor...

I'm learning here so take it easy if I ask a dumb question. I understand the reason to slope the trunk line, but why towards the compressor?

 

[rlitman]

I'm learning here so take it easy if I ask a dumb question. I understand the reason to slope the trunk line, but why towards the compressor?

So water runs back into the compressor tank, where it can be more easily drained off.

 

[akdiesel]

Did I hear someone mention stainless?
Here is my thoughts on over the top piping install. The air should be conditioned prior to entering the main line. When using the air for long periods of time it will start to build temps and start to collect moisture in the air stream. The moisture is not in large droplets but in a fine mist / atomized. So when using air, the mist (we'll say) will travel horizontal, vertical, or what ever direction the piping is set up. When the air is shut off it will cool and the mist will set up in larger droplets and simply lay in the low areas, thus the reason for traps.
A over the top design is not bad but I feel it is not necessary. Sloping the pipe is a good rule to collect moisture in a controlled designated area.
If the air is conditioned like I said than it should not matter at all if it is black pipe.

 

[aka Larry]

So water runs back into the compressor tank, where it can be more easily drained off.

So the water can't be drained at the other end just as easy?

 

[BD1]

''Galvanized IS a problem with natural gas though. For one, you don't have filters in natural gas, and for another, the odorant is known to slowly eat the zinc.''
We have installed strainers /filters in natural gas installation on the commercial installs. Most every natural gas emergency generator require a strainer too. Each manufacture and design engineer have different specs.

 

[stonesfan68]

Personally if price is not important, I would do all black pipe. But I already have plenty of Pex tubing left over from a massive plumbing upgrade and addition to our home so that's what it's going to be...

Please do not use PEX or any other form of plastic or PVC pipe material for compressed air. This is a disaster waiting to happen. The oil in the compressed air stream will eventually break down the plastic material and cause it to explode- like a grenade! (The exception is plastic pipe that is specifically designed for use with compressed air systems.)

Use galvanized piping (SCH40), "black iron,"aluminum piping designed for compressed air (SimplAir or Infinity) or copper.

 

[signcrafter]

So the water can't be drained at the other end just as easy?

You can slope the pipe away from the compressor, http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf. In my opinion(which may not be worth much) this is better then sloping back to the compressor, as long as you put a drain leg in the other end to drain the water. The air pressure is going to blow the condensation away from the compressor. Plus the air dries more the further away from the compressor it gets, they say 25-50 feet of pipe to allow the air to cool off and be able to get the condensation out of the air. I don't see how making the water that was forced to one end of the system by air pressure to drain all the way back to the compressor is better then putting a drain at the other end.

 

[Falcon67]

So the water can't be drained at the other end just as easy?

The best way I found is to add a drip "tail" to every drop. My typical drop is 5' of 1/2" pipe, gate valve, a short piece to a T, 12~18" drop and another gate valve. I blow down the drops once in a while.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Maybe in New york. ALL our specifications clearly specify black pipe or copper. Galvanized is not acceptable.

Whats the air different in NY ? LOL

They use Galvanized Pipe for Dry Fire Sprinkler Pipe where air pressure is maintained until a fire ... I don't see any scaling obstructing 1/4" orifice in a sprinkler heads when there is a fire ? NFPA 13.

They also use galvanized for Domestic Water piping ... large size grooved Victaulic ... scaling would clog your faucets ? Every Plumbing Code in the USA.

The Code and All Specs recommend a drip leg on black pipe ? to catch scaling on black steel gas piping ... right . I would use the MAXAIR system in a Res Garage application before black pipe.

Pitching the trunk back to the Compressor ... I guess the theory is the compressor runs for a short duration and shuts off ... so the water runs back to the compressor tank ... kind of takes care of the water automatically.

I have a float style trap at the bottom of the tank which discharges condensate automatically.

Float and thermostatic traps are mechanical units that operate on both density and temperature principles. The float valve operates on the density principle. A level connects the ball float to the valve and seat. Once condensate reaches a certain level in the trap, the float rises, opening the orifice and draining condensate. A water seal formed by the condensate prevents air loss.


Ron

 

[Fastback]

I think the op trolled you guys into a "what oil is best" thread. Lol.

 

[BD1]

''Whats the air different in NY ? LOL ''

It's not the air, it's the DESIGN ENGINEERING COMPANY that writes the specifications on what they want. It's their scope of work. Right or wrong, we do it. Everyone has their way of doing it.We've done Government jobs that said the same thing, no gal.
It's not what we want but what they specify. Pipe is pipe, whatever pays the bills.

 

[stonesfan68]

We use SCH80 galvanized pipe with SCH160 fittings (threaded and coupled) for 125-200 PSIG compressed air systems that are installed and operated offshore. There's nothing wrong with using galvanized pipe for compressed air. The oil company specifications usually allow SCH40 pipe for systems over 2.5" that are welded.

If galvanized pipe is good enough for Shell, Exxon and Chevron then it will be more than adequate for a home-owner.

 

[signcrafter]

Pitching the trunk back to the Compressor ... I guess the theory is the compressor runs for a short duration and shuts off ... so the water runs back to the compressor tank ... kind of takes care of the water automatically.

[/I]

Ron

Even when the compressor shuts off isn't the lines still under pressure? How would water drain back to the tank if it's under pressure?

 

[cshades]

I use black pipe in all 3 of my shops.water is the biggest problem I have 6'' drip legs with valves on the drops and i invested in a auto blowoff on the bottom of the compressors.The blowoff really helps the water issue.It blows about every 30mins for about 2 seconds.

 

[akdiesel]

Even when the compressor shuts off isn't the lines still under pressure? How would water drain back to the tank if it's under pressure?

Stagnant air (Non moving air), even under pressure will act just the same as an open piece of pipe. Liquids will flow down hill also known as gravity.

 

[BD1]

We use SCH80 galvanized pipe with SCH160 fittings (threaded and coupled) for 125-200 PSIG compressed air systems that are installed and operated offshore. There's nothing wrong with using galvanized pipe for compressed air. The oil company specifications usually allow SCH40 pipe for systems over 2.5" that are welded.

If galvanized pipe is good enough for Shell, Exxon and Chevron then it will be more than adequate for a home-owner.

Now I know why FUEL prices are so HIGH!

 

[HAP]

For me, I just installed two high quality hose reels (one 1/2" for blast cabinet and one 3/8") that can service anywhare in the shop. No more fighting with coiled hoses on the floor and storing them. Eliminated the need for any type of air lines. That's how I roll...

HAP

 

[Ron Lombardo]

BD1 as you can see there is a difference between what some engineer specs and what really works in the real world. Like what STONESFAN68 stated he uses in the most rigorous environment.

....and now your going to tell me you use teflon tape .... oh jes ...opened up another can of worms ... LOL

 

[stonesfan68]

Now I know why FUEL prices are so HIGH!

You have no idea...There is no amount of your money that they are not willing to spend!

 

[BD1]

You have no idea...There is no amount of your money that they are not willing to spend!

We have a crew at ABBOTT LABS. You talk about MONEY, NO LIMIT !!!!

ALL CLEAN ROOM PIPING STAINLESS and machine orbital tig welds . The price

of SS is off the charts.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

" ALL CLEAN ROOM PIPING STAINLESS and machine orbital tig welds . The price
of SS is off the charts.[/QUOTE]

... now your talking my language ... polished inside for FDA Approval and Certification ... we have used the orbital machines and boroscopes ... we use in Wyeth and Barr Labs.