Air source heat pump vs natural gas

[ForceFed70]

After seeing the math thread, I'm wondering if switching to an Air Source Heat pump is worth it.

The natural gas furnace in my house needs to be replaced soon. Was planning on switching to an Air Source heat pump with gas assist.

But now I'm wondering if that is such a great idea. The heat pump will cost double to install vs replacing with another natural gas furnace. Will I ever get that money back in energy bill savings?

 

[Hlidskjalf]

It really depends on your location. I'd say most likely you would be best off with a new furnace and a heat pump. You will have he best of both worlds and you have the option to stage your heating.

 

[Harleyguy]

I agree where you live is important. Heat pumps do not work well in cold climates. They usually are combined with electric heat strips ( emergency heat ) . Electric heat is usually more expensive to run than gas. Heat pumps will freeze up in winter operation thus there is a defrost cycle, during defrost cycle cold air is pumped into the space that you are trying to heat. Thats where the electric heat strips come into play. My 2 cents

 

[ForceFed70]

I live in Canada, but in one of the warmest parts of Canada.

I would definately need a backup heat source as an air-source heat pump doesn't typicaly operate below 20*F and it's not unheard of for us to hit -5*F for a few days.

 

[rickairmedic]

Forcefed I do mostly dual fuel setups here in Louisville. We stay above 35* most of the winter and therefore a heatpump with a gas furnace for backup works out great here . I set the systems up so that if it is over 35* F the heatpump provides all the heat and when it drops below 35* F the heat pump shuts off and the gas furnace kicks in . This works well in our climate so I guess the big question would be. How much of the winter are you above 35* F ?


Rick

 

[ForceFed70]

Forcefed I do mostly dual fuel setups here in Louisville. We stay above 35* most of the winter and therefore a heatpump with a gas furnace for backup works out great here . I set the systems up so that if it is over 35* F the heatpump provides all the heat and when it drops below 35* F the heat pump shuts off and the gas furnace kicks in . This works well in our climate so I guess the big question would be. How much of the winter are you above 35* F ?
Rick

I'd say that during dec/jan/feb we are are 35*F or warmer about 40-50% of the time. Although I think you can get heat pumps where the switch point is closer to 22*F. I'd guess we are warmer than 22* for 75% of the winter months.

 

[jwillis]

don't want gas in my house- too dangerous. And heat pumps don't work worth a ****. I had fuel oil in my house for years and I put in an electric furnace two years ago. It might be more expensive but I like to raise the temperature of my house 10 degrees in an hour or so. I would love to put in a wood pellet stove but the chimney costs $100.00 for each three foot section. So, I'll just stick with my electric heat.

 

[Gooch]

don't want gas in my house- too dangerous. And heat pumps don't work worth a ****. I had fuel oil in my house for years and I put in an electric furnace two years ago. It might be more expensive but I like to raise the temperature of my house 10 degrees in an hour or so. I would love to put in a wood pellet stove but the chimney costs $100.00 for each three foot section. So, I'll just stick with my electric heat.

You think gas is too dangerous but you want to put a pellet stove in? last i checked your Home Insurance doesn't go up dramatically when you have a Gas Furnace, but if you have a Pellet stove, it skyrockets.

 

[ishiboo]

don't want gas in my house- too dangerous. And heat pumps don't work worth a ****. I had fuel oil in my house for years and I put in an electric furnace two years ago. It might be more expensive but I like to raise the temperature of my house 10 degrees in an hour or so. I would love to put in a wood pellet stove but the chimney costs $100.00 for each three foot section. So, I'll just stick with my electric heat.

Uhhh... you do realize the safety record of both natural gas and propane heat, right? You're probably about 50 million times more likely to die in a car accident.

A wood pellet stove would probably pay for itself vs electric in a year or two, again depending on climate.

 

[MikeLawrence]

don't want gas in my house- too dangerous. And heat pumps don't work worth a ****. I had fuel oil in my house for years and I put in an electric furnace two years ago. It might be more expensive but I like to raise the temperature of my house 10 degrees in an hour or so. I would love to put in a wood pellet stove but the chimney costs $100.00 for each three foot section. So, I'll just stick with my electric heat.

Just a quick blurb that the efficiency and effectiveness of heat-pumps is directly related to the thermal qualities of the refrigerant.

To be short, R410-a is not just an environmental thing: it's the best thing that ever happened for air-to-air heat pumps. Not all manufacturers have exploited this equally but it is a fact that the latest air-to-air heat pumps can be very effective at temperatures near 0F not just 0C+ like the old R22's. I'm not saying they're perfect for every situation or even that they're a good fit for this one... just pointing out that some people having bad experiences with some heat pumps shouldn't be an indictment of the new heat pumps. The things are really pretty nice.

Michael Lawrence

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Difficult question. Power is high and moving higher. Gas is low, but the good times can't last forever.

Where gas can really save you $ is any where you have an electric resistanance heater, like a water heater, stove, space heater, etc. There, gas is less than half the cost.

I guess my point is, to really figure out if you can save money, you need to know the cost of both power and gas for the next 12 years (the life cycle of the heat pump) PLUS the following 8 years (because the furnace will probably last 20 years) AND, I guess the cost of the heat pump you'll have to replace the new one with to make it through the 20th year when the gas furnace goes kaput.

My crystal ball doesn't go out that far. If I were you...I'd figure out which one I REALLY WANTED and buy that one and never look back.

Phil

 

[Falcon67]

don't want gas in my house- too dangerous. And heat pumps don't work worth a ****.

We don't do fuel oil around here. I'm 54 and have lived with natural gas all my life and have never had a single issue with it. We are moving into our first all electric house this year and we're expecting to pay at least 25% more for utilities. Lucky for us, we have 1) fireplace 2) well sealed/insulated house 3) don't like it hot - 68 inside is "warm" and 4) it usually doesn't get that cold. If it stays in the 20-30s for a week, we all get real grumpy.

 

[tdkkart]

You think gas is too dangerous but you want to put a pellet stove in?

Yea, I don't think you can move in 2 more differreent directions at once??

 

[TeddyTurmoil]

Heat pumps are great if you buy a good quality one, If you buy a mitsubishi electric or Daikin super inverter they will do 45 deg C easy in -15 to-20 Deg C ambient.

Most of these units (like Mike said) are R410a. They dont blow cold air when on defrost they just cycle with fan on to move ambient around, and most Daikin units ramp down the fan speed when on defrost anyways.

Daikin reckon from 1kw of electrical energy used they can give you almost 4kw of heat/cool which is very good. We have cold winters here in England UK and may hit -10 C and heat pumps work great.