To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Air Tank Hydrotesting with Grease Gun?

whejdak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
176
I've seen where a grease gun was used to pressure test an air tank after it was filled with water. Looks like it would work, but here is my question.
What happens to the grease that was pumped in? I assuming that the grease will sink to the bottom of the tank. Now that is the same place where the drain valve is. That must plug the area where the water needs to be drained
Am i missing something here.
Bill
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
W

whejdak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
176
Especially after you drain the water. There remains grease. plugging the path.
 

jack stand

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,339
Location
Lakes Region Maine
Pressure is pressure, what's the hesitation to using air beyond the limited pressure ?
Even slowly blowing up a balloon with your lungs it's still going to pop at some point.
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,085
Location
West central Indiana
If it’s well filled and no bubbles before applying the grease gun there won’t be much grease.

If you put a piece of pipe/tubing of some length that can handle the pressure of the test also place a manual bleeder valve under the zerk.

Fill it up well with water before installing the zerk.

I doubt much of any of the grease will make it to the tank as it will fill the tubing/pipe mainly and when you open the bleeder valve the pressure will force most of the grease back out.
 

tarmy

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
4,684
Location
Nor Cal
Ummm…bad idea.

Most place pressure test vessels in a containment structure of some sort. A scuba tank, for example, is hydro tested in a liquid which, when displaced by the tanks expansion, is measured to determine satisfactory results as to whether the tank can be placed back in service. Over pressurized vessels can and do catastrophically fail.

I was in a dive shop many moons ago in West Palm Beach where they were filling Scuba tanks in tubs filled with water and lock downs (typical of containment facilities when filling tanks). I always would never try to be around those set ups. Welp, one tank let go and blew the entire end and roof off the shop. A couple of folks were severely injured.
 
OP
W

whejdak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
176
Thanks, I've seen a few videos of guys doing both water and Grease for the pressure test. One guy was really pumping the grease into the tank. I wondered where all that grease was going.
There is another way with and water pressure sprayer. I'm just trying to make the connections from the sprayer to the tank. I had already made a connect from the grease fitting side before I started wondering about where that grease was going.
Firebrick 43 has a good idea too.
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,085
Location
West central Indiana
Ummm…bad idea.

Most place pressure test vessels in a containment structure of some sort. A scuba tank, for example, is hydro tested in a liquid which, when displaced by the tanks expansion, is measured to determine satisfactory results as to whether the tank can be placed back in service. Over pressurized vessels can and do catastrophically fail.

I was in a dive shop many moons ago in West Palm Beach where they were filling Scuba tanks in tubs filled with water and lock downs (typical of containment facilities when filling tanks). I always would never try to be around those set ups. Welp, one tank let go and blew the entire end and roof off the shop. A couple of folks were severely injured.
The test facility I have seen was a concrete vault in the floor where the lowered the tank down into and closed a heavy 1/2” plate door on. It had dents.
 

metalmagpie

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
799
Location
Seattle
Silly me - I thought you took the grease out of the gun and put water in it before pumping it into the tank.

It's really a lot easier to use a pressure washer. (I've tried both and would never do the grease gun thing again.)

metalmagpie
 
OP
W

whejdak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
176
Silly me - I thought you took the grease out of the gun and put water in it before pumping it into the tank.

It's really a lot easier to use a pressure washer. (I've tried both and would never do the grease gun thing again.)

metalmagpie
I've seen video's of doing both, grease and water from a grease gun. I question whether the grease gun filled with water would work without leaking. My guns left hanging the shelf with grease will leak after they get warm in the Summer. So I doubt that filling a new gun with water would work.
But, you see a lot of things on the internet.
 

Jswain

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
2,463
Location
Calgary, AB
Pressure is pressure, what's the hesitation to using air beyond the limited pressure ?
Even slowly blowing up a balloon with your lungs it's still going to pop at some point.
No, no, no.

When filled with water and you have a failure/leak it is not violent it will just slowly released. The water is non compressible so any amount leaking at all greatly reduces the pressure.

When filled with air, which is compressible, & you have a failure it will turn into a bomb, the last thing you'd ever want to do with a tank you're unsure of is over pressure it with air.

Pressure is pressure meaning the tank sees the same forcer whether filled or unfilled, but you never test without it being FULL of liquid as a failure with the two is a huge difference.
 

The Cobbler

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
25,921
Location
Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada
^^^ Me too
huge difference in the potential energy of air vs water under pressure .
you reference a kids balloon. full of air when it pops vs same test with balloon full of water... no flying shrapnel
 
Last edited:

firebirdparts

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
10,633
Location
Kingsport, TN
Pressure is pressure, what's the hesitation to using air beyond the limited pressure ?
Even slowly blowing up a balloon with your lungs it's still going to pop at some point.
It's actually quite dangerous, and so pros don't.

I realize you probably think I'm a liar, so I'll just add here that Hydrotesting is a process where you see if it breaks or not. If it breaks under hydro, nothing happens. Just a bang, but there's no movement. If you break an air tank under air pressure, it'll go through the roof sometimes.

I just want to make sure when you call me a liar that you understand the idea of it and what I was actually lying about.

To the OP, I'll bet there would be traces of that grease somewhere on the wall of that tank forever. My compressor tank has got a lot of oil in it all the time anyway.
 

Black300zx

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
Messages
782
Location
Elkton, Md
It's actually quite dangerous, and so pros don't.

I realize you probably think I'm a liar, so I'll just add here that Hydrotesting is a process where you see if it breaks or not. If it breaks under hydro, nothing happens. Just a bang, but there's no movement. If you break an air tank under air pressure, it'll go through the roof sometimes.

I just want to make sure when you call me a liar that you understand the idea of it and what I was actually lying about.

To the OP, I'll bet there would be traces of that grease somewhere on the wall of that tank forever. My compressor tank has got a lot of oil in it all the time anyway.
You've got the three prior posts backing you up on this one :beer:
 

jack stand

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3,339
Location
Lakes Region Maine
It's actually quite dangerous, and so pros don't.

I realize you probably think I'm a liar, so I'll just add here that Hydrotesting is a process where you see if it breaks or not. If it breaks under hydro, nothing happens. Just a bang, but there's no movement. If you break an air tank under air pressure, it'll go through the roof sometimes.

I just want to make sure when you call me a liar that you understand the idea of it and what I was actually lying about.

To the OP, I'll bet there would be traces of that grease somewhere on the wall of that tank forever. My compressor tank has got a lot of oil in it all the time anyway.
No my attempted point was that a failure by little grease gun pumps is no less dangerous than by a compressor other than being able to be 50' away via a 50' hose. 👍
 

Innovate1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
4,289
Location
Illinois near St. Louis, Missouri
No my attempted point was that a failure by little grease gun pumps is no less dangerous than by a compressor other than being able to be 50' away via a 50' hose. 👍
Ummm…bad idea.

Most place pressure test vessels in a containment structure of some sort. A scuba tank, for example, is hydro tested in a liquid which, when displaced by the tanks expansion, is measured to determine satisfactory results as to whether the tank can be placed back in service. Over pressurized vessels can and do catastrophically fail.

I was in a dive shop many moons ago in West Palm Beach where they were filling Scuba tanks in tubs filled with water and lock downs (typical of containment facilities when filling tanks). I always would never try to be around those set ups. Welp, one tank let go and blew the entire end and roof off the shop. A couple of folks were severely injured.
Hydro testing is completely different from filling. Hydro testing uses incompressible fluid so the risk is minimal. You are mixing up and confusing the two.

As for using a pressure washer, I think a grease gun can supply more pressure than most pressure washers. Interesting idea of using a grease gun for pressure but messy cleanup. I have see a few videos on using grease to form sheet metal that are impressive.
 

tarmy

Well-known member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
4,684
Location
Nor Cal
Hydro testing is completely different from filling. Hydro testing uses incompressible fluid so the risk is minimal. You are mixing up and confusing the two.

As for using a pressure washer, I think a grease gun can supply more pressure than most pressure washers. Interesting idea of using a grease gun for pressure but messy cleanup. I have see a few videos on using grease to form sheet metal that are impressive.
I didn’t mix up anything.

I was pointing out that there are ways to properly and safely pressure test vessels. I also was attempting to illustrate the risk with over pressurized vessel failure when even properly filling (not over filling) a compromised vessel. If OP wants to intensionally over fill has tank to “see” if is any good…he may not actually understand that that stresses the vessel and over time renders it useless or unsafe.

My bad if I didn’t make that clear enough.
 

TurnipTruck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,571
Location
Southcentral Alaska
In the oilfield, new and repaired piping is hydrotested to 150% of rating and the results from a freshly-calibrated chart pressure recorder are entered into permanent records. High points and low points have drain and vent valves to eliminate all air for the test and to drain the water afterwards.
Hydrotesting high pressure cylinders (like oxygen or argon, dunno about acetylene) also involves filling the cylinder completely with water, but is also immersed in a vat of water and the volume of that external water is carefully measured when the cylinder is pressured to check for cylinder expansion.

Decades ago, when I needed a larger air tank in the TurnipTruck for air tools and tires, I found a 150psi rated and plated 6 gallon pressure vessel in an industrial salvage yard and cut it in half at the seam. After a visual internal inspection by myself and the plant inspector, I had some 3/16“ steel rolled to the same diameter as the shell ends. I had one of the weldors in the Fab shop weld the ends to the roll and a coupler half to the shell as a drain. After completely filling with water, I used a hand pump and a known-good gauge to pressure up to 150% of the relief valve I was using and watched the gauge for overnight. No pressure loss/ no leaks and I self-certified the vessel as good enough for my uses. I don’t know how large a cow DOT would have, but it was pretty much industrially certified.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
W

whejdak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
176
WOW!
All I wanted to know was about the grease removal from the tank after using it for testing an air tank.
Some how this got into a shoot out about air verses water testing.
For those that stuck with my original question, thanks for the advice.
 

like2wheel

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
1,693
Location
On an as needed basis
If you're worried the grease would make it to the drain & plug the path, any amount of air pressure would surely force it thru.



.
 
Last edited:

FTG-05

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
1,536
Location
TN
I looked up some details on hydro testing of scuba tanks. Interesting how they measure expansion of the tank by the amount of water displaced. I had no idea...
Yep. I've tested literally thousands of high pressure tanks; the vast majority were CO2 tanks for Fire Extinguishers. At the time (late 70's), I worked for a FL fire equipment company. We tested in a pressure testing tank that was ~80% or so underground - or in this case - gravel. See pic below. Ours was buried to about 6" above the large port on the lower left of the pic. See pic at the link - it won't load for some reason:


The number of tanks I had fail had to be low single digits - it simply didn't happen all that often. Most of them were scuba tanks (we could test them, but not fill them, unlike their CO2 counterparts). I never had one blow, although I did have one scuba tank that refused to stabilize, and I released the high pressure before it could blow. All failed tanks were retested to confirm failure. Scuba guys hated hearing their tanks had failed - and you had to tell them to their face, because they were almost all walk-ins. :(

As stated above, the test criteria was determined by the difference between the zero pressure volume in the test equipment - before high pressure is applied to the tank under test, then the zero pressure volume after the test pressure was applied and sustained for a certain time - usually when test volume stabilized and stopped increasing. If the difference between the two volumes exceeded a certain %, it was failed. Basically, you're measuring the ductility of the tank.

The procedure for indicating a failed tank was simple: You simply overwrote the test date on the tank, like this. Test dates were always stamped prior to test.

The most interesting tanks were those from WWII and before, especially the Nazi ones. :giggle:
 

Bmw4life

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
207
Location
Canada
I purchased a 20 gallon air compressor and decided to inspect the inside of the tank. There was some rust, but hard to tell how it affected the integrity, or if it's just surface rust.

So first I added 10 gallons of vinegar into the tank for a few days to dissolve all the rust. I have to lay it on different sides at different times.

I'm almost done with the rust removal.
I want to do this pressure test to make sure the tank is safe.

Then I'm going to spray the inside with cosmoline or CRC and install an auto drain valve.
 

Spareparts

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
2,042
Location
Lansing Ks.
At what pressure do they test Oxygen Bottles, In this area they raised the inital pressue to 2600 PSI, this caused a problem with the Oxy. reguator diaphram, they would rupture and haveo be replaced, an expense of roughly $50.
 

nadogail

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
31,969
Location
Coronado, CA
Hydro Testing should be done with specialized equipment and an incompressible medium, such as water, that will not contaminate the vessel being tested.
After the vessel being tested is carefully filled and all the air bled then a low volume high pressure pump is then used to bring the vessel under test.
Special Pumps I have seen in the past strongly resembled a hydraulic Jack that pumped a master cylinder. The pressure gauge monitored wether or not there was a leakage.
 

walta

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
2,312
Location
Dutzow Missouri
Hydro Testing should be done with specialized equipment and an incompressible medium, such as water, that will not contaminate the vessel being tested.
After the vessel being tested is carefully filled and all the air bled then a low volume high pressure pump is then used to bring the vessel under test.
Special Pumps I have seen in the past strongly resembled a hydraulic Jack that pumped a master cylinder. The pressure gauge monitored wether or not there was a leakage.


Yes, you are correct if the tank is used a 3500 PSI and it is being tested at 150%. A pin hole could make a jet of water at 5000 PSI much like a pressure washer.

At a test pressure under 350 PSI submerging at tank seems like over kill.

Walta
 

Bmw4life

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
207
Location
Canada
Our air compressor do 120-150 psi, so I'm planning on testing at 200 psi with water.
Not sure why we're talking about thousands of psi
 

walta

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
2,312
Location
Dutzow Missouri
Submerging the tank allows one to measure tank growth under pressure, as Tarmy, Turniptruck, and FTG-05 called out above.
But at less than 350 PSI you are not going to measurably distort a steel tank.

I agree that it is necessary if you are recertifying a 3500 psi scuba tank that gets banged around and then strapped to someone body. Not so much at 125 psi

Walta
 

walta

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
2,312
Location
Dutzow Missouri
You'd hope not.

Are we just testing for leaks, or testing the integrity of the vessel? That hasn't been made clear yet.


Let’s not make let the perfect become the enemy of the pretty good. The professional hydro test that measures expansion seems likely to cost more than a new compressor with a new tank.

The only reason to hydro test is because one is concerned about integrity of a tank if there is a detectable air leak that tank will never pass a hydro test.

Walta
 

racecougar

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
5,123
Location
Missouri
I get that sentiment, but without info from the OP, who knows what we're trying to do here. Maybe the tank has been welded upon, maybe it's a total unknown, etc.
 

545_days

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
583
Location
Texas
We hydrotest high pressure piping in the refinery to over 3,000 psi and we certainly are not submerging the refinery unit in a tank or burying it in as bunker to do the hydrotesting.

The pipe can be large diameter and hundreds of feet long, the volume of hundreds of scuba cylinders. They will erect a warning tape barricade to keep people away from the pipe but that is about it.

On the other hand, pneumatic testing of large piping at much lower pressure (sometimes as low as 50 psi) requires all sorts of engineering. They calculate the stored energy in equivalent lbs of TNT, and have to get approvals signed from safety and management. These tests are usually done on the night shift so that fewer people's work is interrupted when the test area is evacuated for much greater distances based on the equivalent lbs. of TNT calculated.

The difference in the amount of stored energy that can be released when pneumatically testing vs. hydrotesting is enormous.

I remember reading about a worker at a heat exchanger shop who was killed when an exchanger separated during a 5 psig leak test.
 

racecougar

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
5,123
Location
Missouri
The difference in the amount of stored energy that can be released when pneumatically testing vs. hydrotesting is enormous.
Absolutely. A former employer literally blew the roof off of a sulfonation plant due to a pneumatic failure. Luckily nobody was killed.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom