Airless Sprayer for Paint / Stain

[moparfreak]

Has anyone had any good luck with the various sprayers available at the local BB stores or Sherwin Williams? Before I can spend too much time on my shop, I've got a lot of custom built-ins I'm finishing up in our new kitchen and mud room. I'd built furniture before and never really been fully satisfied with the look of a brushed or rolled finish, always makes it look kind of amateur in the end (at least with my skillset...). One of my colleagues at work is building a set of kitchen cabs and has used one of the Graco units and is very pleased with the result, I'm trying to find it out.

I know I want one that I can run directly out of the paint can and not have to have the whole quart or gallon of stuff attached the gun. Been looking at a couple of the Graco ones cause I know it's not hard to find the different tips and accessories:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_320050-4869...=?Ns=p_product_price|0&page=2&facetInfo=Graco

or

http://www.lowes.com/pd_384235-8918...=?Ns=p_product_price|0&page=2&facetInfo=Graco

I know there are some Wagners out there as well with some good reviews, some mixed. Any experience on this kind of thing? I make a lot of customer furniture and built ins for around the house so once I get something that works decently well I know I can get good use out of it for future projects.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[pipsters]

The links don't work but you need to know how much paint those **** up before it even hits the gun. You might be better off with a turbine powered HVLP. That is the preferred unit for woodworking.

 

[PBCampbell]

I don't think you need an airless for interior cabinet grade finishing. Check into Earlex units for a budget unit.

 

[moparfreak]

So, something like the Earlex 3500?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Earlex-Spray-Station-3500-HVLP-Paint-Sprayer-0HV3500US/203391433

Looks like it's got the right mix, able to to paints, stains and finishes. My only issue is the small container. I like being able to **** out of a gallon of paint. For WW tasks (finishes, stains) usually you work out of small containers so not such a big deal, but when painting it's just a lot of refilling and mixing for the small container. Also makes the gun lighter not having the bottle on it. Earlex is a good name, though I don't have personal experience with it.

Also came across this Milwaukee airless sprayer which seems heavily discounted for the moment. DIdn't even know they were in the business:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...H=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1-4-_-NA-_-202656083-_-N

Thanks,
Adam

 

[pipsters]

HF sells a cheap (with coupon) turbine that is the same as a Rockler unit. Under $100 will get you up and running. Then maybe see what you need from there?

HD discounts the Milwaukee airless with turbine assist from $380 to $179 often enough. I would wait on that one if you have your heart set on an airless.

 

[moparfreak]

What are the pros/cons of turbine vs. airless?

 

[retfr8flyr]

For cabinet finishing you want an HVLP sprayer. The advantages of HVLP are low waste and very little over spray and bounce back. The only thing airless is really good for is spraying walls with latex paint. The airless has so much over spray that, unless you are doing new construction, the masking off and clean up make it not very practical. You will also use about 1 1/2 times as much product with an airless.

For what you are planning, I would get the Earlex 5500, if it were me. I have the Earlex 6900 and I am very happy with it. It's easy to use, even for beginners, as the airflow remains constant and you only adjust the flow.

 

[moparfreak]

I'm close to sold. Overall I'd like the best for finishes, but would it also be up to the task of spraying latex paint on doors, or maybe the occasional deck stain or fence?

 

[Zeke]

I have many spray guns and have owned others before.

Graco 390 series is one of the best airless units for the individual painter. The Nova 390 is reasonably priced for this type of unit. I have one a bit bigger, a 395.

I also have a Wager HVLP turbine style. It's older and they don't make it anymore but the models that will power a 25 foot hose are serious enough units to do lots of work.

I also have a bunch of siphon and pressure pot guns. These are not so much for house painting so we'll leave those out.

You can find spray guns used but they are usually beat to hell. If you can get a Graco for dirt cheap, take it in and have it rebuilt and it will treat you like a king. All you need is it to be running well motor wise because you don't want to replace the motor. Same with HVLPs. Get one that hasn't eaten a lot of paint through the turbine motor and the gun can be rebuilt to look like new for not too much money. In general, the better they look, the better they are. But that won't tell you if the pump cylinder is so badly scored that it needs to be replaced. So use caution buying used; good ones are out there, just a little harder to find.

The thing is, both the airless and HVLP turbines can do many different types of painting. For the airless there are tips to choose from and there's even a double orifice fine finish tip that does lacquers and clear finishes really well. You could conceivably paint a car with one. And you can use the airless to paint vinyl acrylic on your walls. From small tip to large, it does lots of work.

For the HVPL your choices are different fluid nozzles, needles and air caps. For the heavier paints like interior trim paint you need to move some paint. So you use a larger set up designed for that type of material. If you want to do furniture, get the smaller combination.

As with all spraying, you have to learn the techniques of thinning and application using the appropriate set up. Otherwise it becomes quite a chore. I have to say this, most people don't really master spraying paint very well. When people buy into spraying because they think it's much easier, they have been misinformed.

Much better for some finishes, yes, not easier. I only set up a spray gun to spray out a job when I can't justify not doing so.

 

[Ainsley]

I have a Fuji semi-pro 2 stage HVLP turbine unit that I use for woodworking projects, interior and exterior doors, etc. I wouldn't want to paint anything much larger than 4'x8' with it, that is a job for an airless. I demo'd a earlex 5500 and prefer the Fuji unit.
If you're looking for something that will do a lot of doors at once, a fence or an entire room than check out airless units. I have some experience with the titan units, specifically the 440 and it has been a great unit.

 

[retfr8flyr]

The Earlex 5500 will do latex but not really that well. For latex you really need at least a 3 stage setup. I have done many cabinet sized projects with latex paint and have been very happy with the results. I don't think I would want to paint walls or anything very large with it because you only have a small qt size paint cup. You will find that the cheaper latex paints are easier to thin and actually spray better then the thicker higher quality stuff. I have had good results with BEHR Premium Plus and it's not expensive.

 

[moparfreak]

My latex projects will be limited to furniture pieces. Tables, built-ins, cabinets, trim, etc. Otherwise it'll be stains and finishes. That is why I'm still leaning towards one of the Earlex HVLPs. I have a colleague who has an Graco XR-5 (i believe) and used it to spray finish on cabinets which worked well except it got overspray everywhere, coated his entire shop, the whole floor is sticky. Suffice it to say teh rest of the cabinets were sprayed outside. I'd like something that I could conceivable spray in the shop in winter maybe with a small spray booth (i.e. PVC frame and plastic sheeting). HVLP seems to have much less overspray but I can't speak from experience.

To Zeke's point, yes I don't expect it to be easier. However, a lot of effort goes into rolling and brushing big projects and I'm often not happy with the results. Brush streaks, uneven roller texture, etc...I'd like to put in the effort and have a quality finish as a result, which is my goal for the sprayer.

 

[retfr8flyr]

Doing a small spray booth is very doable with an HLVP setup. I have a setup with hooks in the ceiling and canvas drop cloths that I hang from the hooks to create a small spray booth. I move one car out of the garage and use that bay. I just hang up the drop cloths, lay, a plastic tarp on the floor, to catch the over spray and I'm ready to spray away.

With an HLVP system about 95% of the over spray is dry by the time it reaches the floor, unless you are spraying something very close to the floor. I try and keep everything at least 3 feet from the floor when I spray things. This setup allows me to have that space available for use when I don't need to spray something. I wouldn't recommend using plastic sheets for the booth because of the static electricity build up.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm close to sold. Overall I'd like the best for finishes, but would it also be up to the task of spraying latex paint on doors, or maybe the occasional deck stain or fence?

I think it would be hard to find one gun/system that would work well for "furniture grade" finishes as well outdoor projects. The later requires a lot for paint/stain to be applied during each coat.

For "furniture grade" paint finishes, I would stick with alkyd (oil based) enamels . They thin down better and you still get good coverage. Also, add a couple of drops of alkyd enamel hardener to the final coat. It will be almost as tough as epoxy.

There are other "additives" that are important for "furniture grade" finishes. Anti-"fish eye" for varnishes and "flow" enhancers for paint. These and a good dust free "booth" will help give you that "factory" finish !

 

[moparfreak]

Retfr8flyr,
I like your idea about the spray booth. I have a lot more space in the new shop I'm building, so maybe I'll set aside an area, put some eye hooks in the ceiling and have some canvas I can hang from it. Love the ideas I get from this forum...

theoldwizard1,
yes, I can understand the volume of paint needed to cover a decent sized deck or otherwise outside really falls into the airless category. But yes as we talked this through I really want this for furniture projects. I've got a mudroom built in piece, a built-in booth for the kitchen, a kitchen table trestle base, and some cabinets to build that I'd like to get a high quality finish on. I'll definitely look into the alkyd paint. When I built a bunk bed for my two boys, I used a Sherwin Williams ProClassic water-based acrylic aklyd enamel. Wasn't oil based but came out as a very durable finish (except for the 12 places where my son chewed through it... ). I wonder if that would spray out of the HVLP unit alright...

Thanks,
Adam

 

[moparfreak]

and now I'm trying to decide between the Earlex 3500 and Earlex 5500. Wish it was available at Menards, I've got lots of rebates...

Earlex 5500 looks like a more well rounded unit built to last longer, but I'm thinking that being novice, the 3500 looks like a better entry into spraying w/o spending so much up front.

Any experience w/ either of these?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[retfr8flyr]

Maybe this will help you. http://lumberjocks.com/topics/63726

One thing I wanted to point out, I only spray water based products. I have had good results with them and you really need a real spray booth, exhaust fans and the whole 9 yards, to spray oil based products. With oil based you have many problems to deal with, fire hazard is the number one, that you just don't have with waterborne products. There are company's now that make about anything you could want to use in waterborne, so there isn't the need for oil based products like in the past.

 

[moparfreak]

Awesome, I'm on it. That is a great find, 5500 in good condition for less than 3500 new. We'll see if it pans out. I agree, most water based poly's perform as well as any oil varnish these days. If I want to do a danish or teak oil for a nice natural finish it's good to rub that stuff in anyways...

Thanks,
Adam

 

[moparfreak]

I was a bit late on that used one, but I still ended picking up a new Earlex 5500 online from Rockler using a 20% off coupon, so with shipping about $280. I can tolerate that, and I think should be a great unit that can last me for many years and many projects.

It comes with the 2.0mm tip. Looks like a 1.5 and 1.0 tip is offered as well. What are those best suited for? Assuming finer finishes, but I would think the fact they offer a 2.0 only with the unit means it should be able to handle most tasks? There are SS and brass options as well for the tip / needle sets. Not sure what is needed to really complete the set.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[retfr8flyr]

The 2.0 is for thicker material like latex paints. The 1.0 and 1.5 are for thinner stuff like stains and lacquers. I have had the best results with the 1.5 and 2.0 needles, for most of the waterborne material I spray. You basically want to use the smallest needle that will still atomize the material.

 

[moparfreak]

So I finally got a chance to try this setup out on the beadboard and trim panels as I've moved onto the new bathroom next to the garage/kitchen, and the wife wanted the beadboard wainscoting look. Used the 2.0mm tip with Sherwin Williams paint, and it was right on the edge, I think. A 2.5mm tip probably would have been better and given more control, as I was on the edge of the flow limits on the 2.0mm. I'll get that one before doing any more latex spraying.

I also build a knockdown spray booth to control the environment somewhat and not having to be inside. I did a lot of searching here and online elsewhere, ended up following this article probably the closest:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-to/article/make-a-simple-spray-booth.aspx

The booth worked out nicely, and I made some subtle modifications so that I could fold it flat and use velcro to keep it *******. I ripped the foam panels down to 32" so that it would fit up through the opening to my attic and that's where I store it when not in use. Not much to it other than foam, velcro, extra-wide duct tape and some scrap wood. I chose this over the PVC tube type because of having to mess around with drop cloths / sheeting every time.

Thanks,
Adam