ALI / ETL Lift certification requirements?

[Travis31415]

So, I've been looking across the web for more information on the ALI/ETL lift testing process. The only information that I have found is that the lift is loaded to 150% of its rated capacity and then cycled. It is then apparently checked for deformation.

My issue is, if you are supposed to pay the extra money for this gold sticker, shouldn't we know the procedure and the results? I'd like to see which lift can handle 150% capacity and have virtually no deflection and which ones bend/sag but don't break.

Personally, I'd love to watch a YouTube channel where the testing is shown. Maybe I'm weird, but I think it's interesting.

 

[Handyandy23]

I agree, and I feel like the whole process is just a money making scheme. ALI isn't a charity or government agency or not for profit that I can tell. Their actual testing procedures and standards don't seem to be easily accessible. Yet you go on their website and you'd think death is a foregone conclusion if you used a non certified lift.

And really it's a foolproof business model because I'm sure in commercial settings there will always be the market for certified lifts due to liability.

Honestly, if I wanted to lift 15,000 lbs I would buy a 15,000 pound lift, not a 10,000 lb ALI lift. I don't need to pay extra money for something with a 50% idiot factor built in.

 

[Travis31415]

It seems like everything I purchase that is "certified" comes with a document showing results. Whether it be a turbocharger or a torque wrench, I get proof.

It would be nice to at least get a printout of arm deflection, column spread, cycles to failure, etc. I guess publishing that data would offend some manufacturers and the dough would stop rolling in.

 

[danb35]

ALI isn't a charity or government agency or not for profit that I can tell.

No, they aren't a government agency. However, according to https://www.gesusa.com/car-lifts/buyers-guide/ali-certification.html, they are a non-profit. (The autolift.org domain should demonstrate this, but the top-level domains don't have any real oversight)

I think the best comparison is to UL. UL is a private, non-profit organization, originally created to promulgate safety standards for insurance companies (hence the "underwriters"). You have hundreds, if not thousands, of UL-listed products in your home right now, from electrical products (switches, outlets, breakers, etc.) to appliances to smoke detectors to safes. But you never got any certification paperwork with any of those products other than the UL mark and listing number, and the standards themselves are pretty tightly-controlled (I don't know if it's possible for a random member of the public to buy a copy of a UL standard (you can for the ALI standard, about $300), but they certainly aren't free).

 

[finn]

The phone or tablet you are typing on has a half dozen or more certifications, but I don’t hear anybody bitching that the standards and test results aren’t shipped with the products.

Your Doctor has his diploma and degrees posted on the office wall, but he doesn’t have his grades from freshman chemistry class posted.

Your mechanic has his ASE or whatever certificate posted, but there are no results from any particular test he took anywhere to be found. Did he ace every test, or just barely pass?

 

[Travis31415]

The phone or tablet you are typing on has a half dozen or more certifications, but I don’t hear anybody bitching that the standards and test results aren’t shipped with the products.

Your Doctor has his diploma and degrees posted on the office wall, but he doesn’t have his grades from freshman chemistry class posted.

Your mechanic has his ASE or whatever certificate posted, but there are no results from any particular test he took anywhere to be found. Did he ace every test, or just barely pass?

Not quite. Phones must comply with FCC regulations, which are stated clearly. And yes, I don't know what grades my Dr. received in school, but I do get to know about board certifications and any malpractice issues. Along with the fact that they had to pass the GMAT, get into med school, graduate, complete a residency, get hired, and perform their job with relative competence.

As far as ASE certification, they are a bigger joke than ALI/ETL. I've seen ASE certified techs that I wouldn't trust to change oil.

On the other hand, vehicle crash test data is readily available. As consumers, we deserve to have information available that aids us in safe purchasing decisions. We don't simply get answers like "passenger survived" or "passenger died".

ALI/ETL could even rate like the NHTSA.
Example:
Arm deflection at load: 3 stars
Arm deflection at 150%: 2 stars
Column deflection at load: 5 stars
Column deflection at 150%: 4 stars
Column tip in at load: 5 stars
Column tip in at 150%: 3 stars
Weld penetration: 5 stars
And I'm sure more categories.

 

[JSK]

The difference between an ALI certified lift and non-certified lift is like night and day. Don't kid yourself. The very tough standard is over 80 pages in depth and is very difficult for any lift maker to pass, not to mention, very costly.

Below are just a very few examples.

Structural Materials - All structural materials shall be of the proper size and characteristics to provide a strength factor of not less than three (300) percent for ductile metal, and not less than five (500) percent for non-ductile metal. Complete and thorough engineering stress calculations must be provided based on all published material tensile strengths.

Welding - procedures shall be qualified, welders shalt be certified. And weld joint design shall conform to the applicable sections of ANSI/AWS D1.1/D1.1M, Structural Welding-Steel, or CSA Standard W59M, Welded Steel Construction (Metal Arc Welding), for all welds located in the load path or in synchronizing assemblies.

Hydraulic Hoses - shall not burst when subjected to a pressure of not less than four hundred (400) percent of the pressure required to operate the lift at its rated load capacity.

Valves and Fittings - shall not burst when subjected to a pressure of not less than three hundred (300) percent of the pressure required to operate the lift at its rated load capacity.

Hydraulic Cylinders - shall not burst when subjected to a pressure of not less than three hundred (300) percent of the pressure required to operate the lift at its rated load capacity for ductile parts; and not less than five hundred (500) percent of the pressure required 10 operate the lift at its rated load capacity for non-ductile parts.

Wire Rope - (cables) assemblies including end connections and anchorages used for suspension, or used for a slack wire rope or chain device, shall have a breaking strength of not less than five (5) times the tensile force at the applied load.

Operation Test:
Lift is loaded to 100% lifting capacity and operated through its full stroke cycle five (5) times. The lift is raised with the test load without external assistance or increase in relief valve settings. The automatic mechanical locking device(s) are engaged in each locking position as intended.

Lowering Speed Test:
The average lowering speed of the lift loaded to maximum capacity is tested to not exceed twenty feet per minute (20 FPM) with or without a hydraulic line rupture or simulated break.

Static Load Test:
The lift is raised to an elevation to induce the greatest stress on the lift. The automatic safeties are then disengaged. A certified weight or payload 150% of the rated capacity of the lift is placed on the lift with the arms/ramps positioned to produce the greatest stress on the lift and/or arms. All pads and/or adapters are also tested during this procedure. The lift must sustain the load for five (5) minutes with no deformation of materials or visible signs of wear, fracture of materials, failure of welded components or other connections.

Chain or Chain Suspension Static Test:
All chain and connecting links used for load suspension are tested with a load equal to five (5) times the suspension load based on an equally distributed load on the lift. The chain and connecting links must sustain the load for five (5) minutes with no fractures of materials.

Lateral Synchronizer / Equalizer Cable Test:
The lift is loaded with a differential of loading between lateral load supports of one-fourth the rated capacity of the lift and operated through five (5) full-stroke cycles. The synchronization device must maintain the lift load laterally level at all elevations of load travel within two (2) degrees. The lift is then loaded to rated capacity. During a simulated break of the lifting chain, the equalizer cable(s) must suspend the load with no fractures for a period of five (5) minutes.

Locking Device Load Test:
The lift is loaded and tested using the same procedures described in the Static Load Test. The Static Load is then supported by the locking device. The locking device must sustain the load for five (5) minutes with no deformation of materials or visible signs of wear, no fracture of the mechanical locking device or the lift structure to which it is attached.

Automatic Arm Restraint Test:
The arm restraint is tested on the lift representing the longest arm available for the lift, and positioned within the normal range of arm deployment for lifting. The arm restraint is tested by applying a 150-pound load in the plane of the arm's axis of extension. The arm restraint must sustain the test load for five (5) minutes with no deformation of materials or visible signs of wear, no fracture of the arm restraint or the lift structure to which it is attached.

Fastening Device Strength Test:
Screws, pins, bolts, keys and other fastening devices located in the load path of the lift are subjected to tensile and/or shear loads of four times (400 percent) the maximum load applied to the fastening device with the lift loaded to maximum rated capacity. Fastening devices must not fracture or deform to the point of releasing the retained lift components.

Hydrostatic / Hose Strength Test:
Based on the maximum pressures measured during the Operation Test, the hydraulic system is tested as noted below and held for one (1) minute.
• Three times maximum operating pressure - Piping fittings, valve bodies, cylinders, pump housing
• Four times maximum operating pressure - Rigid tubing, flexible tubing, hoses. There must be no rupture of tested components, excluding seals and gaskets.

 

[Jazzman442]

All of these test are important. If I am going to stand under it Im going to make sure it has these tests done. I am en engineer and you really need to understand why these ratings exist. When something goes wrong the people with out the correct certifications cry they wish they had the one with them. Do you really want to have something that is engineered to lisft 5000 lbs and put 5000 lbs on it.. Good luck with that. Some people.

 

[manwithtools]

No, they aren't a government agency. However, according to https://www.gesusa.com/car-lifts/buyers-guide/ali-certification.html, they are a non-profit. (The autolift.org domain should demonstrate this, but the top-level domains don't have any real oversight)

I think the best comparison is to UL. UL is a private, non-profit organization, originally created to promulgate safety standards for insurance companies (hence the "underwriters"). You have hundreds, if not thousands, of UL-listed products in your home right now, from electrical products (switches, outlets, breakers, etc.) to appliances to smoke detectors to safes. But you never got any certification paperwork with any of those products other than the UL mark and listing number, and the standards themselves are pretty tightly-controlled (I don't know if it's possible for a random member of the public to buy a copy of a UL standard (you can for the ALI standard, about $300), but they certainly aren't free).

UL is a for profit company, changed from non-profit in 2012. If you deal with them at all on firsthand basis it becomes apparent that is the case. Everything they do is expensive and takes forever.

 

[vision8]

Certification !?! Well the steel used comes from ??? (China ) welded by whom ??? and assembled using what quality of Cables and Hydraulics ?!?
Questionable quality at best guess .
I was a Maintenance Foreman and Machine Shop Foreman and Plant Engineer for a very big steel producing maker for most of that life . When ordering and purchasing lifting equipment with very specific material from suppliers ; the paper work that came to certify equipment for government standards proved to be useless at best . Within months of use the steel and welds began to show cracking from welded joints that were under stress . The fabrications were specified as Fully Kilned and Fine Grain Steel then after welding were stress relieved in ovens and slow cooled .
We were chasing cracks every week on an ongoing basis during downturns just to keep the mill working .
ALI certification ; a piece of paper .
Inspect your columns and cables regularly , lube your slides and cylinders .
When you feel / hear squeals and binding of parts it's too late .
Be Safe ; Be Smart !

 

[Travis31415]

The difference between an ALI certified lift and non-certified lift is like night and day. Don't kid yourself. The very tough standard is over 80 pages in depth and is very difficult for any lift maker to pass, not to mention, very costly.

Below are just a very few examples.

Structural Materials - All structural materials shall be of the proper size and characteristics to provide a strength factor of not less than three (300) percent for ductile metal, and not less than five (500) percent for non-ductile metal. Complete and thorough engineering stress calculations must be provided based on all published material tensile strengths.

Welding - procedures shall be qualified, welders shalt be certified. And weld joint design shall conform to the applicable sections of ANSI/AWS D1.1/D1.1M, Structural Welding-Steel, or CSA Standard W59M, Welded Steel Construction (Metal Arc Welding), for all welds located in the load path or in synchronizing assemblies.

Hydraulic Hoses - shall not burst when subjected to a pressure of not less than four hundred (400) percent of the pressure required to operate the lift at its rated load capacity.

Valves and Fittings - shall not burst when subjected to a pressure of not less than three hundred (300) percent of the pressure required to operate the lift at its rated load capacity.

Hydraulic Cylinders - shall not burst when subjected to a pressure of not less than three hundred (300) percent of the pressure required to operate the lift at its rated load capacity for ductile parts; and not less than five hundred (500) percent of the pressure required 10 operate the lift at its rated load capacity for non-ductile parts.

Wire Rope - (cables) assemblies including end connections and anchorages used for suspension, or used for a slack wire rope or chain device, shall have a breaking strength of not less than five (5) times the tensile force at the applied load.

Operation Test:
Lift is loaded to 100% lifting capacity and operated through its full stroke cycle five (5) times. The lift is raised with the test load without external assistance or increase in relief valve settings. The automatic mechanical locking device(s) are engaged in each locking position as intended.

Lowering Speed Test:
The average lowering speed of the lift loaded to maximum capacity is tested to not exceed twenty feet per minute (20 FPM) with or without a hydraulic line rupture or simulated break.

Static Load Test:
The lift is raised to an elevation to induce the greatest stress on the lift. The automatic safeties are then disengaged. A certified weight or payload 150% of the rated capacity of the lift is placed on the lift with the arms/ramps positioned to produce the greatest stress on the lift and/or arms. All pads and/or adapters are also tested during this procedure. The lift must sustain the load for five (5) minutes with no deformation of materials or visible signs of wear, fracture of materials, failure of welded components or other connections.

Chain or Chain Suspension Static Test:
All chain and connecting links used for load suspension are tested with a load equal to five (5) times the suspension load based on an equally distributed load on the lift. The chain and connecting links must sustain the load for five (5) minutes with no fractures of materials.

Lateral Synchronizer / Equalizer Cable Test:
The lift is loaded with a differential of loading between lateral load supports of one-fourth the rated capacity of the lift and operated through five (5) full-stroke cycles. The synchronization device must maintain the lift load laterally level at all elevations of load travel within two (2) degrees. The lift is then loaded to rated capacity. During a simulated break of the lifting chain, the equalizer cable(s) must suspend the load with no fractures for a period of five (5) minutes.

Locking Device Load Test:
The lift is loaded and tested using the same procedures described in the Static Load Test. The Static Load is then supported by the locking device. The locking device must sustain the load for five (5) minutes with no deformation of materials or visible signs of wear, no fracture of the mechanical locking device or the lift structure to which it is attached.

Automatic Arm Restraint Test:
The arm restraint is tested on the lift representing the longest arm available for the lift, and positioned within the normal range of arm deployment for lifting. The arm restraint is tested by applying a 150-pound load in the plane of the arm's axis of extension. The arm restraint must sustain the test load for five (5) minutes with no deformation of materials or visible signs of wear, no fracture of the arm restraint or the lift structure to which it is attached.

Fastening Device Strength Test:
Screws, pins, bolts, keys and other fastening devices located in the load path of the lift are subjected to tensile and/or shear loads of four times (400 percent) the maximum load applied to the fastening device with the lift loaded to maximum rated capacity. Fastening devices must not fracture or deform to the point of releasing the retained lift components.

Hydrostatic / Hose Strength Test:
Based on the maximum pressures measured during the Operation Test, the hydraulic system is tested as noted below and held for one (1) minute.
• Three times maximum operating pressure - Piping fittings, valve bodies, cylinders, pump housing
• Four times maximum operating pressure - Rigid tubing, flexible tubing, hoses. There must be no rupture of tested components, excluding seals and gaskets.

This is great information. I'm all for certification. I just wish that there was transparency. All you hear is that a certified lift will never fail and a non certified lift will drop everything on your head.

 

[Dzlpete]

And which one would you rather work under?
There are small issues that bug me about my 16K Mohawk lift, but I do not worry at all with 8-10,000 lbs of truck overhead.
Yes, they are pricey, BUT, they ARE certified.

 

[Travis31415]

And which one would you rather work under?
There are small issues that bug me about my 16K Mohawk lift, but I do not worry at all with 8-10,000 lbs of truck overhead.
Yes, they are pricey, BUT, they ARE certified.

That's great that your mohawk is certified. Certified or not, I wouldn't worry about a lift built as heavy as a 16k mohawk. I don't worry with 8-10k lbs with a non certified 15k lift. However, I do worry when I have 8000 lbs on my 10000lb certified lift. Just because it's certified doesn't make it safe.

 

[firebirdparts]

I guess you see this, but if you go to their store, you can purchase the requirement for $210. So it is available if you want to read it.

I don't suppose you'll ever see ratings; the standard is not really written to facilitate that. They could do that if they wanted to.

 

[Handyandy23]

All of these test are important. If I am going to stand under it Im going to make sure it has these tests done. I am en engineer and you really need to understand why these ratings exist. When something goes wrong the people with out the correct certifications cry they wish they had the one with them. Do you really want to have something that is engineered to lisft 5000 lbs and put 5000 lbs on it.. Good luck with that. Some people.

I'm an engineer as well and I have a non-certified lift because I don't see the point in having a device that is 300-400% over-engineered for what I'm going to do with it. There's safety factors and then there's just overkill.

Who are all these people crying with cars falling out of the air? I don't think I've ever heard of a lift failing catastrophically. There's a YouTube video people like to link of a really crappy lift that has huge deflection when loaded over capacity and eventually fails after some time. I'd say if you're stupid enough to a) overload your lift, and b) go under something that has breaking welds and deflection measured in feet, that's natural selection.

It also sounds like you might not be super familiar with car lifts in general because I'm not sure what kind of baby lift has a 5,000 lb rating. My basic 2 post lift is rated for 9,000 lbs. The largest vehicle I own is a 1/2 ton pickup that weighs maybe 6,000 lbs tops with stuff inside it. It lifts that truck with no issues, no deflection, etc.

Do I really need ALI to certify my 9,000 lb lift to 13,500+ lb so I can use it to "safely" lift my 6,000 lb truck? It's just fear mongering nonsense to think so.

I'm not saying certified lifts have no purpose, but the rhetoric that a non certified lift is somehow a death trap is so overplayed. If I owned a shop and I was going to be working on anything that rolled in, then yes maybe having some wiggle room in capacity would be helpful. But for the average DIYer, do your research, read reviews, and buy what suits your needs from a reputable business.

 

[danb35]

the rhetoric that a non certified lift is somehow a death trap

You and Travis have both referred to similarly exaggerated claims, but the only place I've ever seen anything like them is from people who, like you, are trying to question the value of the certification. Where does ALI claim any such thing?

 

[OHMS LAW]

There’s an old saying, amateurs skip safety checks, pros don’t. Having worked under old as **** lifts for shop owners to cheap to have them serviced to brand new shop with top of the line equipment, I know where I want to work.

The point isn’t about a piece of paper or a cert sticker. It’s about someone with a trained eye making sure that thing is safe and ready for work.

 

[Travis31415]

You and Travis have both referred to similarly exaggerated claims, but the only place I've ever seen anything like them is from people who, like you, are trying to question the value of the certification. Where does ALI claim any such thing?

This has taken a weird turn. The intent of this thread was to address the lack of transparency in the testing and certification process, not dispute its validity.

I think it has been sufficiently addressed earlier on in the thread. Apparently, there are guidelines that we can see, it just costs a **** load of money to see them.

Since they exist, are available to the public, and universal across all manufacturers, I'm more comfortable with the process.

I would still love to see actual results published, but that is likely not going to happen, at least be the testing organization.

 

[Ironcrow]

Well, I don't think being an engineer or not alters the validity of one's opinion on the matter. I'm also an engineer and I would not consider a non-certified lift. As a starting point. Then I'd alter it's function and installation as I saw fit to optimize my usage. I am an engineer after all.

I purchased a copy of the ALI/ANSI standard. While it is a pretty comprehensive list of requirements, lifts are rated pass/fail in aggregate. That is, if the lift passes every condition it gets a passing mark and its ALI label. The only way we'll see individual results is if a lift manufacturer decides some detail of the Standard is inadequate and cares to publish how and why they choose to exceed the Standard in that respect. Even then, perhaps the manufacturer's agreement with ALI prohibits this sort of "wildcat" self-reporting?

 

[Travis31415]

So, my only question now is, why make the testing criteria so expensive to attain? If it's privileged information, you wouldn't share it at all. If not, which seems to be the case, make it a pdf download on the website.

 

[Ironcrow]

And that is a good question. Both the ALI and NEC are tied to ANSI. The NEC is widely and freely available. The ALI is expensive. I don't know.

 

[finn]

I’m an engineer too, and as stated before, my lift is certified. Having been involved in qualifying and certification of products for most of my career, I would opine that the discipline involved in having to certify a product brings a certain rigor to the art of engineering and product qualification.

That rigor or do or die often is easier to dismiss if there isn’t a “final exam”

 

[Bad00SS]

I went with Greg smith equipment because they have video proof of every test and do all of the testing in house seperate from ALI certs. They check it out for themselves. Honest people over there. They wont sell a product that fails. here's some of the testing on current models they sell.

https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Lift-Testing

 

[Travis31415]

I went with Greg smith equipment because they have video proof of every test and do all of the testing in house seperate from ALI certs. They check it out for themselves. Honest people over there. They wont sell a product that fails. here's some of the testing on current models they sell.

https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Lift-Testing

Some of the videos in the link do not work. However, I must admit that greg smith is really stepping up the quality in the affordable import market. I have one of their wheel balancers and I am quite happy with it. Build quality is as good as anything else out there. I also purchased their alignment conversion system (Atlas® Apex Alignment Kit) when I rebuilt my Nussbaum 12k scissor lift. Greg Smith sent everything I needed for under $2000, whereas Nussbaum was triple that price and it wasn't practical. Funny thing is, Greg smith's stuff is actually heavier duty that the original Nussbaum parts. I did end up narrowing the runways 1.5 inches to accommodate the Greg smith parts, but it isn't a big deal. Thanks to greg smith, I was able to completely re-deck and install new alignment parts on the lift for $4000 vs buying a new lift for $15000-25000.

 

[Wraithman]

Mohawk here. Simply look at the way they are built in the US, no hoses, cables or imported parts. They are ALI certified. If you can find one used grab it. One look at these compared to others and you will quickly see the huge difference in steel (all 3'4) and base plates (20x30") and you will understand safety. Check Youtube for comparisons.
"Buy it once and buy it right and don't pay with your life."

 

[Travis31415]

A mohawk is silly. I don't want those massive columns and I like having mechanical equalization and an overhead brace. Even if I found one used, I'd pass, unless it was dirt cheap.