Good afternoon gents , after dealing with alignment shops that don't have a clue over the past few years , I am thinking I may spend the money on a machine . I realize they are quite expensive for as often as u will use it , but that's ok . I've seen some quite older machines that have been kept up to date for today's cars as low as $1500 and newer machines up in the 10k range . Is there any gains to be had with the newer machines ? Are any of you guys doing the same thing ?
Alignment machine
- Thread starter Kmaysob
- Start date
sweetk30
Well-known member
you need a 4 post lift . the machine needs the room infront of it . the lift and machine need to be calibrated to them selfs as a pair . its not just a smack it in and power it up thing .
i worked in shops for years and did a lot of alignments . . . for the few jobs you might need per year go find a good shop the alignment guy cares about his work and just pay up .
i worked in shops for years and did a lot of alignments . . . for the few jobs you might need per year go find a good shop the alignment guy cares about his work and just pay up .
it is hard to get a good alignment when most alignment tech only know "set the toe and let it go"
We get Town Fair Tire alignments all the time with bad suspension components that were never checked before the "free" alignment
We had a 75 Vette stop by the shop last year.... we are a magnet for vintage cars for some reason, we ALWAYS have an old car waiting for an alignment.... guy just had an alignment done in the previous 30 days at another shop
So the owner of the car seeing the older cars in the lot comes in and wants to make an appointment for us to look at his car.
The gentleman I work with is in his 70's, he does old school alignments.
We were looking the car over with the owner in the parking lot and I comment that the wheelbase on the right side is all out of whack..... this was on a Friday morning, we scheduled him for Monday before we were looking the car over
I had an open drive on lift, so for grins I put the car up on it to get a quick look.... the effn front right rear lower control arm bushing was not there, the lower control arm walked forward and the only thing keeping it on the car was it had hit the fuel pump.
remember this car was aligned in the previous 30 days and the problem was well over 30 days old IMHO
Needless to say I drove the guy home, I was not letting that car out of the shop like that.
I'd like to say this was an exception to the rule, but I see a lot of sh*t work done by "set the toe and let it go" shops that ends up on our machine.
We get Town Fair Tire alignments all the time with bad suspension components that were never checked before the "free" alignment
We had a 75 Vette stop by the shop last year.... we are a magnet for vintage cars for some reason, we ALWAYS have an old car waiting for an alignment.... guy just had an alignment done in the previous 30 days at another shop
So the owner of the car seeing the older cars in the lot comes in and wants to make an appointment for us to look at his car.
The gentleman I work with is in his 70's, he does old school alignments.
We were looking the car over with the owner in the parking lot and I comment that the wheelbase on the right side is all out of whack..... this was on a Friday morning, we scheduled him for Monday before we were looking the car over
I had an open drive on lift, so for grins I put the car up on it to get a quick look.... the effn front right rear lower control arm bushing was not there, the lower control arm walked forward and the only thing keeping it on the car was it had hit the fuel pump.
remember this car was aligned in the previous 30 days and the problem was well over 30 days old IMHO
Needless to say I drove the guy home, I was not letting that car out of the shop like that.
I'd like to say this was an exception to the rule, but I see a lot of sh*t work done by "set the toe and let it go" shops that ends up on our machine.
If you know your stuff and have a little patience there a dozen variation of kits like this pic. They are many that guys use at the track.
www.motortrend.com
quicktrickalignment.com
D.I.Y. Wheel Alignment - New Tools Tested!
We show you how to do a pro-level wheel alignment at home on a 1976 Pontiac Trans AM using affordable alignment tools from Tenhulzen Automotive.
QuickTrick 4th Gen Alignment System | DIY Camber/Caster/Toe
Get precise camber, caster & toe checks at home. QuickTrick 4th Gen is a portable, USA-made wheel alignment tool trusted by DIYers & pros. Shop now.
quicktrickalignment.com
Last edited:
Lou's Garage
Well-known member
I'm not sure what you're aligning but if you have a flat/level garage floor and understand what you are doing, you are most of the way there. A Caster/Camber gauge and a trammel bar for toe and you can handle at least 90% of what you'll normally need. A bonus if you have a set of turntables for the front wheels.
As mentioned above, the important thing is keep a close eye on the condition of your suspension. If the alignment suddenly changes, don't tweak it until you've found out why. Usually something has moved because of wear.
Lou Manglass
As mentioned above, the important thing is keep a close eye on the condition of your suspension. If the alignment suddenly changes, don't tweak it until you've found out why. Usually something has moved because of wear.
Lou Manglass
smackey05
Well-known member
I do my classic car with a Longacre gauge myself. It's similar to the one above.
We have a shop in town that basically only does alignments. Small shop in a industrial complex. He's the go to guy for anything exotic, modified, race, etc. He will do an alighmnent if your car is so low its scraping the ground. People come from all over the area. Has a following with different car types like corvettes. Has a really catchy name too, "Alignment Guy". Bet there is someone in your area like him. I never knew about him until a friend of a friend was talking about him. He has a corvette and lives about 60 miles away.
petebob
Well-known member
The folks that used to do my alignments upgraded because the computer on their old machine (S811) was giving them trouble. I bought it from them for $200 and fixed the computer. I found a used alignment lift on Craigslist and I love being able to check my cars' alignments at will.
Exactly. Just keeping a close eye on tire pressures and tread wear patterns will often let you know what's going on. And don't fall for the 'free' alignment check sales pitch you see (they'll always say that you need an alignment even when you don't).
CraigStu
Well-known member
Unless you can get a machine for <$600 you can do it w/ something like Showkey posted. I have tools mostly from Longacre and my own stuff that has been picked up over the years.
www.longacreracing.com
I have a home welded toe bar but am now using the toe plates.
20210501_093241 by craig stuard, on Flickr
www.longacreracing.com
I have two of these, one for each side. The laser is used to make sure both sides are the same when setting toe like this but the pic is of my previous tool. You can see the laser dot on the scale ( one scale for each side) near the front wheel.
IMG_20170419_160647869 by craig stuard, on Flickr
Longacre Toe Tools
www.longacreracing.com
20210501_093241 by craig stuard, on FlickrLongacre Caster Camber Gauge 78250
<ul> <li>Reads camber from +9° to -9° accurate to 1/4°</li> <li>Caster readout from +12º to -4º in 1/2º increments</li> <li>A...
www.longacreracing.com
IMG_20170419_160647869 by craig stuard, on Flickr39CAMC
Well-known member
As noted below, one can do just a good of a job with a Longacre (or similar) camber gauge and toe plates or strings. The setup takes a lot longer, but the end job is up to the mechanic, not the tools.
Only the camera type alignment machines require calibration to the rack. These are the ones with a big T shaped tower in front. You don't want one of these. The sensor based ones would be fine...a Hunter 611 or 811 based machine. These are windows based and powered by PC's so if that part fails, you can (maybe) wrangle up some parts, though they are OLD PC's, think Windows 95 type stuff. Usually the power supplies and fans are the weak points and you can find XT power supplies on eBay.
Regardless of what machine or equipment, you will need a level place to do the alignment along with some sort of slip plates. I have seen people make plates out of two pieces of VCT tile with grease between them, or folded up trash bags.
DaveW
vpd66
Well-known member
I would not recommend a used Computerized Alignment machine. The businesses that buy these new pay lots of money for them so they get lots of use. Unless you plan on getting into the alignment business setup, calibration, parts availability, and just plain figuring out how to operate it are going to be your obstacles. I've been doing alignments on street and race cars for 30 years with a caster/camber gauge, string, and a set of jack stands. Takes up no room and has paid for its self many times over.
Wiz02
Well-known member
Not to hijack the thread, but can anyone recommend a good alignment shop in the Delaware Valley (NW Philly suburbs)?
bwringer
Well-known member
Yep, that Longacre setup will get you excellent results with a little extra labor. It's not the tools, it's the operator.
I will echo the advice above to find "the shop" in your area. Somewhere in any decent size city is the one shop that actually pays attention and can perform a quality alignment. It will take some digging, but you might poke around the custom car scene locally to get some names.
And no, it's almost never a tire shop, a chain, or a dealership.
This is "the shop" on the NW side of Indianapolis. There are likely several others around Indy, but this place is very close to me and does excellent work.
I will echo the advice above to find "the shop" in your area. Somewhere in any decent size city is the one shop that actually pays attention and can perform a quality alignment. It will take some digging, but you might poke around the custom car scene locally to get some names.
And no, it's almost never a tire shop, a chain, or a dealership.
This is "the shop" on the NW side of Indianapolis. There are likely several others around Indy, but this place is very close to me and does excellent work.
Northwest Frame & Alignment - Zionsville, IN
For over 40 years, Northwest Frame & Alignment has been the trusted hub for comprehensive auto repair and maintenance in Zionsville, Indiana, and nearby communities. Our seasoned team excels in precision alignments, suspension and brake repairs, tire installation, wheel straightening, and a wide...
northwestframe.com
OK here is my two cents....Yes you can do a quality alignment at home, with basic tools and gauges...
IF you have patience, knowledge, and motivation... BUT since most of us lack at least one of those-
here is what I would recommend to most folks here.
I have sold alignment equipment for over forty years...MOST shops use very little of the capability of a modern aligner, however there are a few that are extremely competent. If you are not in the industry how do we find one ?
Go to the Hunter Engineering or John Bean Equipment website and fill in your zip code in the find a rep box. Your area rep contact info will pop up....shoot them an email with the vehicle you need aligned and ask them where they would take THEIR car. The guys that actually sell and service aligners absolutely know who can use it.
If you have the skills and time do it at home... if not - ask the guy who sells and trains the equipment.
Mike B
IF you have patience, knowledge, and motivation... BUT since most of us lack at least one of those-
here is what I would recommend to most folks here.
I have sold alignment equipment for over forty years...MOST shops use very little of the capability of a modern aligner, however there are a few that are extremely competent. If you are not in the industry how do we find one ?
Go to the Hunter Engineering or John Bean Equipment website and fill in your zip code in the find a rep box. Your area rep contact info will pop up....shoot them an email with the vehicle you need aligned and ask them where they would take THEIR car. The guys that actually sell and service aligners absolutely know who can use it.
If you have the skills and time do it at home... if not - ask the guy who sells and trains the equipment.
Mike B
vpd66
Well-known member
Good advise. The guy selling and training Techs on how to use the machines will know the best shops.
Ugh. I own my own auto repair shop and I still wont buy an alignment machine. Definitely wouldn't even consider one if I was a home gamer. Too much time, money and patience to do it correctly for me to even consider it. Or probably mostly a hatred of doing it from years back 
Well worth the $70 dollars for me to drop a car off down the road and have another shop do it while I can be spending my time on other things.
But if someone wants to spend the money and actually take the time to learn the right way to do it, then go for it!
Just seem about the equivalent of buying your own semi just to bring home a few 2x4s from the lumber store once or twice a year.
Well worth the $70 dollars for me to drop a car off down the road and have another shop do it while I can be spending my time on other things.
But if someone wants to spend the money and actually take the time to learn the right way to do it, then go for it!
Just seem about the equivalent of buying your own semi just to bring home a few 2x4s from the lumber store once or twice a year.
Viper98912
Well-known member
Interesting thread, looking to do this as well. Frustrated with two poor alignments. Thanks for the info guys
I too can't see how buying and setting up an alignment machine could possibly worth the $, time, and trouble for the average DIY person. And that's not talking about the space you'll waste. Again, please don't fall for the 'free alignment' sales pitch and you'll very like be OK.
i dont mean to rob the thread but i have an alignment question
i got a vehicle that have had three set of ball joints in 10k miles, because the alignment guy told me
this vehicle has a torsion bar front suspension, It had always set un level, i just though it was my driveway crown
i notice couple months ago, one of the torison adjustment bolts had backed out, nearly all the way, so i tighten it like the other side and the vehicle sits level now
question, would this have an effect on my front end alignment, if so why didnt the tech see it?
i got a vehicle that have had three set of ball joints in 10k miles, because the alignment guy told me
this vehicle has a torsion bar front suspension, It had always set un level, i just though it was my driveway crown
i notice couple months ago, one of the torison adjustment bolts had backed out, nearly all the way, so i tighten it like the other side and the vehicle sits level now
question, would this have an effect on my front end alignment, if so why didnt the tech see it?
petebob
Well-known member
You will probably get more responses in a new thread. Depending on the front suspension style, lowering it can mess up your geometry but 3 sets of ball joints in 10K miles is ridiculous. How did they fail? Did they replace both sides or just the one? How far out of level was it? I would think a thorough tech would check the ride height before they adjust anything. Which brings this back to the original topic....
Ride height has an effect on alignment……..it’s one to the first checks on setting up an alignment.
As mentioned in post 21 ……….. How much it changed yours would be unknown without actually measuring.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
Considering how often a typical car needs an alignment, I think it would be difficult to justify the cost and extra space required for an alignment rack. There has to be someone in your area that can provide good service.
Last edited:
CraigStu
Well-known member
I agree that you have to really want to do it to make buying the tools attractive. I have been an avid autocrosser for decades so it is worth it to me. Right now I am working on settings, primarily more negative camber, for my Stingray. I find that I need to schedule 2-3 hours to do an alignment if I want to change a camber or caster spec. Toe in is just 15 min or so. OTOH, I can make a change any time I want, and it is free to me because I already own the equipment. One thing to note is that turntables are not needed. W/o them, you work a little harder turning the steering wheel to do a caster sweep. But also w/o them, you go a little beyond the 15 deg, so it settles back to 15 deg, and stays there while you adjust the gauge. W/ them, it won't settle and stay, so I have go to that front tire, move it a couple of degrees and then hold the wheel tire while I adjust the gauge.
bwringer
Well-known member
Semi-related, but I've sometimes wondered what it would take to set up an area of your shop, driveway, or garage with a dead flat, level floor.
Most floors have a slope for drainage, of course, but even supposedly level shop floors have little to no attention paid to being more or less precisely level. In houses built on a slab, the floors are very commonly off by laughable amounts.
This would seem to be a useful "tool" for alignments and all sorts of setup and even fabrication work depending on accurate measurements. I have no idea what level of precision is possible or worthwhile for a shop floor you could put a vehicle on, but I bet you could get it pretty damn precise with a little extra attention. Outline with paint or tape, and you have a very useful reference. Something like a crude surface plate; obviously not .001 precision, but maybe within 1/8" or better?
I also have no idea what it might take to make a level spot like this on an existing floor. Just a thought.
Most floors have a slope for drainage, of course, but even supposedly level shop floors have little to no attention paid to being more or less precisely level. In houses built on a slab, the floors are very commonly off by laughable amounts.
This would seem to be a useful "tool" for alignments and all sorts of setup and even fabrication work depending on accurate measurements. I have no idea what level of precision is possible or worthwhile for a shop floor you could put a vehicle on, but I bet you could get it pretty damn precise with a little extra attention. Outline with paint or tape, and you have a very useful reference. Something like a crude surface plate; obviously not .001 precision, but maybe within 1/8" or better?
I also have no idea what it might take to make a level spot like this on an existing floor. Just a thought.
vpd66
Well-known member
I do my alignments between my hoist posts. When I was determining where to put my hoist I found the levelest spot in my shop.
ludakris04
Well-known member
I would find a performance shop, maybe one that does race cars or at least performance cars. Most likely they will have an alignment rack and will set it up however you want it. It will cost more, but they will do it right.
maybe these guys https://www.umstuning.com/
maybe these guys https://www.umstuning.com/
djbmw
Well-known member
I'm a year late to the party but will chime in...
I have a 1500 sq ft personal shop and found a used Hunter P211 for $500 Canadian ($380 US). It came with larger rim clamps that can support a 21" rim (or something like that), along with DSP200 heads. As long as your shop floor is relatively flat/level, the machine works great. You don't NEED a lift or slip plates (just use newspaper or vinyl tiles and make sure to settle the suspension after any change). If you find a working machine like this - back up the hard drive (image it), and consider updating the computer hardware (or have spare parts on standby). Also see if you can pick up spare heads in the event that a component in the head fails.
I can mount the clamps, heads, create a custom profile, do a runout test and then a front toe alignment all within 30 min with the machine.
I have a 1500 sq ft personal shop and found a used Hunter P211 for $500 Canadian ($380 US). It came with larger rim clamps that can support a 21" rim (or something like that), along with DSP200 heads. As long as your shop floor is relatively flat/level, the machine works great. You don't NEED a lift or slip plates (just use newspaper or vinyl tiles and make sure to settle the suspension after any change). If you find a working machine like this - back up the hard drive (image it), and consider updating the computer hardware (or have spare parts on standby). Also see if you can pick up spare heads in the event that a component in the head fails.
I can mount the clamps, heads, create a custom profile, do a runout test and then a front toe alignment all within 30 min with the machine.
I know many shops just set the toe and let it go but if you know anything about cars you will also know very few cars/trucks even have the ability to adjust the caster and/or camber anymore. The toe is the only thing that even can be adjusted!
If your lucky there might be an aftermarket eccentric bolt or adjustable bushing kit of some kind but not always.
So the manufacturers have cut this adjustability out of the modern suspensions to save on cost and if you lower the car your in a bigger mess!
If you do any racing one of the first things people do is add the adjustability back into the suspension. Adjustable caster plates and adjustable camber bolts. All costs money.
.
.
.
If your lucky there might be an aftermarket eccentric bolt or adjustable bushing kit of some kind but not always.
So the manufacturers have cut this adjustability out of the modern suspensions to save on cost and if you lower the car your in a bigger mess!
If you do any racing one of the first things people do is add the adjustability back into the suspension. Adjustable caster plates and adjustable camber bolts. All costs money.
.
.
.
rdoty
ALLIANCE MEMBER
This will absolutely affect your front end alignment. Torsion bar suspension is quite old - it sounds like your alignment guy wasn't familiar with them.
I'm guessing that you have an old Mopar. The best approach is to find a shop that is familiar with these older cars and take it to them. Don't assume that just anyone can work on a 40+ year old car.
You should track down a factory service manual for your car and read the section on front suspension and front end alignment. Many of the old service manuals can be found online.
Torsion bar is great but does have some idiosyncrasies...
firebirdparts
Well-known member
I assume everybody in GJ already knows that. The problem comes when you do want an adjustment. It's really pretty difficult work, the wrenching part I mean. Will anybody do it? If everybody in town is trying to do flat rate alignments, do you know how to find a person who will actually do it? I am sure I could get it done if I pressure the right person, but it's definitely not that easy.
The internet is full of "Oh, most people blah blah blah" or "very few people blah blah blah" type arguments (which really just mean "everybody shut up nobody cares about you"). But I find that if I'm one of those people, then that isn't really doing it for me.
I'll throw in here my dad had a good way of accounting for runout using dirt simple methods. He would spin the front tire and make a mark on it by letting it rub on a screwdriver. This line was true, then. Then you measure to the line. As you go lower and lower on the tire, of course, you lose a little measurement accuracy, and if you roll the car around to settle the suspension, you erase your line (it's just a line in the dust on the tire). it's not easy to do on a really low car. At some point the tradeoff to toe plates is more attractive.
Last edited: