All from the same factory

[Tachead]

Not saying you're wrong, but other than the price, is there any hard evidence that the wrenches are different? Unless someone sat down with 10-15 of each branded wrench and ran tests and measurements on each one, how does one say the Snap On has better fit and finish and tolerances (unless you work for them)? Again, not saying they are the same, but without taking real data on a sampling of both it can't be proven or disproven.

Many people own or have used both. It is very easy to see and feel the difference in this particular case(smoother roller, less machine/forging marks due to a better finishing before coating, much much nicer chrome that is likely thicker and definitely much higher polish, and I believe the handle sleeve is TPE instead of a cheaper product on the Bahco version) but, feel free to email Snap-on if you want the specifics.

Many, if not most, Snap-on products that they have other companies manufacture for them are upgraded when compared to their manufacturer branded counterparts and not just rebrands. Snap-on has always done this, it's their way of giving you a better product by using their century plus of design and engineering innovation as a worldwide tool making leader. Now, does that mean every product is upgraded? Probably not but, most I have owned or looked into are. Same goes for other tool truck brands(but to a lesser degree then Snap-on ime)...

 

[65k10]

Many people own or have used both. It is very easy to see and feel the difference in this particular case(smoother roller, less machine/forging marks due to a better finishing before coating, much much nicer chrome that is likely thicker and definitely much higher polish, and I believe the handle sleeve is TPE instead of a cheaper product on the Bahco version) but, feel free to email Snap-on if you want the specifics.

Many, if not most, Snap-on products that they have other companies manufacture for them are upgraded when compared to their manufacturer branded counterparts and not just rebrands. Snap-on has always done this, it's their way of giving you a better product by using their century plus of design and engineering innovation as a worldwide tool making leader. Now, does that mean every product is upgraded? Probably not but, most I have owned or looked into are. Same goes for other tool truck brands(but to a lesser degree then Snap-on ime)...

I looked at a number of my Bahco comfort grips and all have a little >TPE< stamp on the grip, but the other things being different like chrome wouldn't surprise me.

As a quick example last year I ordered a Williams SH-131BF (3/4 to 1/2 reducer with replaceable drive anvil) from Amazon and got a Snap-On GLAS1F in a Williams bag. So apparently that can happen. Out of curiosity I ordered another from Amazon, but got a SH-131BF this time. Now having both it was interesting to compare the two. They certainly look like they come from the same blank as it were, but the Snap-On version has some differences with regards to how edges were beveled, two grooves cut around the circumference of the adapter, plus a locking button instead of detent cuts like the Williams. Kind of surprised me they bothered to make two versions of this simple item for both brands, but they did.

 

[Tachead]

I looked at a number of my Bahco comfort grips and all have a little >TPE< stamp on the grip, but the other things being different like chrome wouldn't surprise me.

As a quick example last year I ordered a Williams SH-131BF (3/4 to 1/2 reducer with replaceable drive anvil) from Amazon and got a Snap-On GLAS1F in a Williams bag. So apparently that can happen. Out of curiosity I ordered another from Amazon, but got a SH-131BF this time. Now having both it was interesting to compare the two. They certainly look like they come from the same blank as it were, but the Snap-On version has some differences with regards to how edges were beveled, two grooves cut around the circumference of the adapter, plus a locking button instead of detent cuts like the Williams. Kind of surprised me they bothered to make two versions of this simple item for both brands, but they did.

Ok, good to know they use TPE in the Bahco too. I haven't owned a Bahco soft grip and couldn't see the TPE stamp anywhere on the pics I looked at.

Yep, it is very common for Snap-on to make 2 versions even when they are made in one of their own factories like Williams. I know a lot of people seam to think the Williams screwdriver sets sold on Amazon are the same as Snap-on but, I don't think they are either. I think people just like to think they got a deal or outsmart others but, usually they are just fooling themselves to save a dollar. Some of the same people will claim that Snap-on is overpriced(they definitely are sometimes) and their Taiwan or China ratchet is just as good. Well, the people who actually use their tools for a living and put hundreds or thousands of hours a year on them know this just isn't the case...personally I take anyone's opinions about tools that hasn't worked with them professionally(preferably for many years) with a grain of salt...

 

[65k10]

Ok, good to know they use TPE in the Bahco too. I haven't owned a Bahco soft grip and couldn't see the TPE stamp anywhere on the pics I looked at.

Yep, it is very common for Snap-on to make 2 versions even when they are made in one of their own factories like Williams. I know a lot of people seam to think the Williams screwdriver sets sold on Amazon are the same as Snap-on but, I don't think they are either. I think people just like to think they got a deal or outsmart others but, usually they are just fooling themselves to save a dollar. Some of the same people will claim that Snap-on is overpriced(they definitely are sometimes) and their Taiwan or China ratchet is just as good. Well, the people who actually use their tools for a living and put hundreds or thousands of hours a year on them know this just isn't the case...personally I take anyone's opinions about tools that hasn't worked with them professionally(preferably for many years) with a grain of salt...

I have a decent amount of Williams and some Snap-On and I have noticed that 1 for 1 crossovers between the two brands doesn't seem to be all that common. Even then, seeing that they went to the trouble to make the afformentioned 3/4 to 1/2 reducer slightly different between the two brands when they could have easily just kept both the same, but with different stamping was somewhat surprising to me.

 

[Tachead]

I have a decent amount of Williams and some Snap-On and I have noticed that 1 for 1 crossovers between the two brands doesn't seem to be all that common. Even then, seeing that they went to the trouble to make the afformentioned 3/4 to 1/2 reducer slightly different between the two brands when they could have easily just kept both the same, but with different stamping was somewhat surprising to me.

Yep, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to not make their Snap-on line products different/better really. With such a competitive marketplace combined with unheard of connectivity now a days, the cat would get out of the bag pretty quickly if they didn't I think. And, if professional mechanics stop seeing a difference for their money(both in product quality/longevity/innovation and warranty support), they will stop getting on the trucks and resort to Amazon. I think the two main reasons Snap-on is able to survive today is of course the on site warranty support and that they still strive to innovate and try to make the best tools money can buy(they achieve this still a lot of the time imo/e). The day they stop innovating and making tools that outperform and outlast the competition, is the day the Snap-on brand will die imo. Let's hope that day never comes...

 

[qqzj]

Made in India has been around a long while. Back 6-7 years ago in Sears, most of the garden tools were made there. I bought a grease gun and it was made in India. I didn't realize it until I started using it. To be fair, it worked fine all these years. The quality of tools cannot be judged from county of origin. In many tool tests, tools made in China Taiwan beat those made in USA or Europe. It's just a good exercise to bash tools made by countries of lower average income. It's a lot more fun this way.

 

[nickjj]

Made in India has been around a long while. Back 6-7 years ago in Sears, most of the garden tools were made there. I bought a grease gun and it was made in India. I didn't realize it until I started using it. To be fair, it worked fine all these years. The quality of tools cannot be judged from county of origin. In many tool tests, tools made in China Taiwan beat those made in USA or Europe. It's just a good exercise to bash tools made by countries of lower average income. It's a lot more fun this way.

I've probably sold thousands of Indian made wrenches over the last few years, nobody has broken one yet.

Here all the oil cans, grease guns and extractors are from India.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Calculated to make a fan of Bonney sick:

 

[Tachead]

I see my comment about not supporting products made in shady countries for a number of reasons was removed. Sad as I said nothing but, truth and was nice about it. Typical, people would rather bury their head in the sand and have cheap tools then have morals. Is this site China owned?

 

[joel63]

I see my comment about not supporting products made in shady countries for a number of reasons was removed. Sad as I said nothing but, truth and was nice about it. Typical, people would rather bury their head in the sand and have cheap tools then have morals. Is this site China owned?

Oh, oh. Now you done did it. Good luck.

 

[Tachead]

Oh, oh. Now you done did it. Good luck.

I didn't even get a message from the mods about my removed post and I said nothing derogatory in it. I was just replying to qqzj's comment about people bashing countries with a lower average income for fun(as this is not the case with a lot of people at all, many don't support certain countries for political and moral reasons). I'm guessing someone just pulled my reply because they didn't like it or didn't like their reflection in the mirror after reading it lol. I guess they don't like the truth about where the money they spend at HF goes...

 

[Handyandy23]

Not to turn this into a big COO argument, but everyone here is typing on a computer or cell phone from China or similar, and probably wearing clothes made in less wealthy countries with questionable human rights records. I like supporting local businesses and manufacturing, but at the same time, hard to look down your nose too hard at others for what tools they buy when everyone's whole house is full of off-shore manufactured items.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

The Chinese are investing heavily in Africa. They see it as a way around higher Chinese labor cost.
The new manufacturing hubs will be Vietnam and some of Africa.

I’ve seen this with clothing. Lots of Kenyan COO or other East African countries. Kinda caught me off guard at first until you realize that Sub-Saharan Africa has been projected to boom for decades now.

An interesting tidbit, the energy and transportation costs are actually hurting business development in SE Asia and Africa. My company and several other big names are moving locations in those areas back to Europe or US/Canada simply because the lower energy costs offset the higher labor costs.

 

[Tachead]

Not to turn this into a big COO argument, but everyone here is typing on a computer or cell phone from China or similar, and probably wearing clothes made in less wealthy countries with questionable human rights records. I like supporting local businesses and manufacturing, but at the same time, hard to look down your nose too hard at others for what tools they buy when everyone's whole house is full of off-shore manufactured items.

Yes, some items are impossible but, many are easy to find alternatives for and every dollar counts imo. I just bought 2 made in the USA baby gates for less then their clones at Walmart for instance. It often just takes careful shopping. Imo everyone should be doing all they can to not support certain countries. Personally, I will only buy from them if there is absolutely no other options...there usually is ime...

 

[Bubba Fett]

I didn't even get a message from the mods about my removed post and I said nothing derogatory in it. I was just replying to qqzj's comment about people bashing countries with a lower average income for fun(as this is not the case with a lot of people at all, many don't support certain countries for political and moral reasons). I'm guessing someone just pulled my reply because they didn't like it or didn't like their reflection in the mirror after reading it lol. I guess they don't like the truth about where the money they spend at HF goes...

Just be careful talking about anything political. Voice of experience here.

BTT:

I have a pair of Proto flush fastener pliers that are identical to the Wilde version (Wilde is the OEM). The only difference is the handle color, which is a bit more orange-ish red on the Proto pliers. The other difference was the price. One I bought for home use (Wilde) and the other I bought at work via supplier (Proto). As far as I can tell, they are the same tool.

A company's core tools that they produce in-house may have differences among brands though. That said, I am perfectly happy with my Williams hard handle screwdrivers, though I usually reach for Klein first.

 

[Tachead]

Just be careful talking about anything political. Voice of experience here.

BTT:

I have a pair of Proto flush fastener pliers that are identical to the Wilde version (Wilde is the OEM). The only difference is the handle color, which is a bit more orange-ish red on the Proto pliers. The other difference was the price. One I bought for home use (Wilde) and the other I bought at work via supplier (Proto). As far as I can tell, they are the same tool.

A company's core tools that they produce in-house may have differences among brands though. That said, I am perfectly happy with my Williams hard handle screwdrivers, though I usually reach for Klein first.

Roger, thanks for the heads up. I generally avoid politics anyway but, at the same time I don't like censorship and if I get banned I won't cry myself to sleep as I only came on here to research European and Japanese ratchets and offer help if anyone needs it in the short time I'm on.

Again, hard to tell if it's the same without metallurgical testing or getting a written response from Stanley(not gonna happen) but, yeah some stuff you are just paying a premium for the brand logo for sure. As said earlier though, the good companies have improvements made to products before rebranding them... The really good ones don't rebrand and make all of their own products...

 

[fsae0607]

Some of these Indian wrench stories made me laugh.

When I was a teen, I bought a set of Indian combo wrenches at Harbor Freight that I used in my junkyard toolbox. I bent and broke damn near all of them. I seriously wonder what they use for raw material.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Some of these Indian wrench stories made me laugh.

When I was a teen, I bought a set of Indian combo wrenches at Harbor Freight that I used in my junkyard toolbox. I bent and broke damn near all of them. I seriously wonder what they use for raw material.

I'm not sure even they know. I've heard tales of Indian-tools setting off radiation detectors at the ports. There is a widespread problem of contaminated metal that supports that. Probably who-knows-what gets dumped into the melt.

 

[Under_Pressure]

It's interesting how the centers of low cost manufacturing shift around, and often turn into respectable- but higher priced- options after they do their time at the bottom of the barrel. Of course at one time, the US was the "low cost" country turning out mass produced junk in comparison to the fine craftsmanship of the Old World. Post WWII, it has shifted to Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, China, now India, with Africa a "down the road" likelihood. Note that places like Japan, Taiwan, and to some degree even China & Mexico have developed a reputation for good to great quality after being seen as purveyors of junk for a generation or two. I'm just curious where the low cost center will be after this runs its course through Africa in a century or two. The moon?

 

[silkman]

Going back to the Snap-on - Bahco question, you must understand that Bahco itself has two qualities, the ergo ones are the top of the line ones for industry/commercial use.

I doubt a Bahco ergo adjustable wrench is a lot different to a snapon. You can have a few cosmetic differences yes, even different heat treatment or thicker chrome, but what was said about better tolerances can't hold true for tools made in the same machinery in the same factory. Unless you individually check and throw half your production away that is.

 

[2oolhound]

I have some African made tools that are decent quality. I think they were made in the 60's and made in South Africa though.

Golden City





This 3/4" dr. set was made in S. Africa by Gedore around the same period. Gedore had a plant there. These are nice tools.



China's large investment in Africa is not so much based on labour for manufacturing as it is for minerals, metals and other resources for which they are building infrastructure, roads and sea ports mainly. China's deep water sea ports now extend to the Atlantic Ocean. The African nations' manufacturing and cheap labour will likely be utilized in 20 -30 years as these nations struggle to pay off the huge debts incurred for building all the infrastructure.

 

[four.cycle]

"...is there any hard evidence..."

None that's been offered up so far. Sounds like sales pitch stuff to me, even from a distance.

Is Lang using some super-secret grade of steel when they're manufacturing stamping Snap-on's name onto all those snap-ring pliers and other widgets they sell to them?

I mentioned this in another thread, and I think it's worth repeating:

One out of five people on the planet lives on the Indian sub-continent.
By 2050, India's population will exceed that of China.

As previously mentioned in this thread, as the standard of living (and with it wages) goes up in China, more manufacturing will be moved to India.

 

[Musky_Hunter]

Been there done that. Of course the flip side is that no matter how prepared I am with what I bring, I always need something that I left back at my shop. . .

That's why my policy is

If you can't get it here I'm not working on it

 

[Under_Pressure]

I have some African made tools that are decent quality. I think they were made in the 60's and made in South Africa though.

Golden City





This 3/4" dr. set was made in S. Africa by Gedore around the same period. Gedore had a plant there. These are nice tools.



China's large investment in Africa is not so much based on labour for manufacturing as it is for minerals, metals and other resources for which they are building infrastructure, roads and sea ports mainly. China's deep water sea ports now extend to the Atlantic Ocean. The African nations' manufacturing and cheap labour will likely be utilized in 20 -30 years as these nations struggle to pay off the huge debts incurred for building all the infrastructure.

Interesting. South Africa is a bit of a different animal, of course. For most of the 20th century (and to an extent still today) in many ways it was like a European country plopped in Africa, at least in the commercial centers. Bringing industry to the continent between Egypt and South Africa will be the real game changer.

 

[Ricky Joe]

I looked at a number of my Bahco comfort grips and all have a little >TPE< stamp on the grip, but the other things being different like chrome wouldn't surprise me.

As a quick example last year I ordered a Williams SH-131BF (3/4 to 1/2 reducer with replaceable drive anvil) from Amazon and got a Snap-On GLAS1F in a Williams bag. So apparently that can happen. Out of curiosity I ordered another from Amazon, but got a SH-131BF this time. Now having both it was interesting to compare the two. They certainly look like they come from the same blank as it were, but the Snap-On version has some differences with regards to how edges were beveled, two grooves cut around the circumference of the adapter, plus a locking button instead of detent cuts like the Williams. Kind of surprised me they bothered to make two versions of this simple item for both brands, but they did.

I bought a six pack of Budweiser once that had Busch caps on half the bottles…

 

[DAustin]

I bought a six pack of Budweiser once that had Busch caps on half the bottles…

When I'm eating out, I always ask for a Busch.

 

[Mr_B]

Many people own or have used both. It is very easy to see and feel the difference in this particular case(smoother roller, less machine/forging marks due to a better finishing before coating, much much nicer chrome that is likely thicker and definitely much higher polish, and I believe the handle sleeve is TPE instead of a cheaper product on the Bahco version) but, feel free to email Snap-on if you want the specifics.

Many, if not most, Snap-on products that they have other companies manufacture for them are upgraded when compared to their manufacturer branded counterparts and not just rebrands. Snap-on has always done this, it's their way of giving you a better product by using their century plus of design and engineering innovation as a worldwide tool making leader. Now, does that mean every product is upgraded? Probably not but, most I have owned or looked into are. Same goes for other tool truck brands(but to a lesser degree then Snap-on ime)...

snapon put none of its engineering expertise into the the locking pliers it sold for decades that rebrands of gripon, even the stanley contract versions of gripons and some german versions were better thanks to being plated .

 

[AA/FC]

I've got a set of Made-in-India, deep, chrome, 1/2 drive sockets from Harbor Freight that are about 20 years old. Those f'ing things seem to be made from some sort of Cheddar cheese or play-Doh. They're EXTREMELY soft, and the chrome plating falls right off if you look at them wrong. Hopefully 20+ years later, the Indian tool companies have gotten better?

 

[Mr_B]

Just because they are made in the same factory does not mean they are the same.

Customers generally specify things to manufacturers like alloy used, heat treatment specs, tolerances kept, how much deburing and finishing is done, finish type and thickness, etc. All of these differences can make two tools that look identical perform totally differently in the real world. One can't just assume a tool that is made in the same factory is the same as they usually aren't. I know, this may upset some people who think their stuff is just as good as the real deal but, unfortunately it usually isn't from my experience and they are just fooling themselves into thinking they got a deal. Good companies don't just rebrand tools, they have them made better before they slap their name on it. You see this with lots of Snap-on products, just for instance, where they add additional or better features, materials, or finishes above the original products specs.

A good example is a Bahco adjustable wrench. Snap-on has owned Bahco for years and their adjustable wrenches are thus likely made in the same factory and forges. But, at a minimum Snap-on's model has tighter/better tolerances/fit and finish, better quality TPE material for the handle, much thicker and better quality chrome plating, and sharper/deeper easier to read lazer etching. Only Snap-on knows for sure but, it is possible it uses a different/better alloy or heat treatment as well. Yet, people in shops and forums all over the world toute how they get the exact same wrench as the Snap on truck for half the price. They are either ignorant or fooling themselves... This is only one example...

For these low cost mass produced tools like op imaged you buying from catalogue with only a few options, you get the alloy steel they use and the tolerence their equipment can manage and that it, even in taiwan if want get fussy on steels you be importing it yourself and then only have a few companies that can produce to your requirements when want fine finishing and tight QC . Facom and astro are good examples of this and it really highlights differences of buying from an odm or supplying your design and expertise to an oem .

 

[anytool]

Where does one source stuff like this from?