So I was thinking of purchasing a torch, don’t have a specific need at the moment but know I’m going to at some point. All my searches seem to come up with specific purposes, and are quiet expensive. What I would like is a general purpose torch that doesn’t necessarily do either of the two tasks I could see myself doing great, but will get me by. I’d like to be able to solder pipes, and heat up seized bolts on my car when doing work. I’d like more of a budget one that I can upgrade if I find myself using it a lot and getting frustrated. Any recommendations?
All purpose torch recommendation
- Thread starter DIWhy
- Start date
For soldering pipes, a pretty basic propane torch will work just fine. I use a Bernzomatic TS8000, which I've used on copper up to 1.5". I don't think it would do much bigger than that. It's not going to cut out a bolt (you need oxy-fuel for that), but it will get them hot.
I've got a small acetylene torch that I use for exactly what you are looking to do. It may take a while, but it can heat up a bolt/nut cherry red if you want it to. I like it because it's easier to work with in tight areas. Think the tank cost me around 40-50 to fill and lasts a long time. YMMV.
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
For plumbing work.... get MAPP gas setup... no propane
The MAPP gas would probably work for most other jobs where you need some heat, but don't need to melt or cut metal.
The MAPP gas would probably work for most other jobs where you need some heat, but don't need to melt or cut metal.
I was reading that MAPP is a thing of the past, now it’s MAP/PRO which only gets around 150° hotter than propane. Is there something similar to the old stuff?
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MAPP IMO gets way too hot for standard house plumbing work. Maybe it was my lack of practice but I shot solder out the back of the fitting and had a couple leaks with MAPP. switched to propane and the rest of the house went together like butter.
I have that MAPP torch still, but generally just heat things with it.
I have that MAPP torch still, but generally just heat things with it.
sberry
Banned
Buy the best tanks you can right off the bat, 140 cf aceyt and S oxy bottle, 125. 80 cf aceyt and Q (80) oxy minimum. Bigger bottles heat so much better and cheaper to fill.
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
Now that ^^^^^ is interesting. My experience with MAPP versus propane has been exactly the opposite. I seemed to always struggle with plumbing work using propane, but once I started using MAPP, I was like Mr. Pro plumber, LOL. Well, not that good, but I virtually never had any issues at all. I love MAPP for plumbing.
And yes, MAPP gets hotter than propane, that's the whole point!!!!! Control the heat baby, control the heat....
Unless you can find some old stock of MAPP, there is NO MORE actual MAPP gas made or around.
The MAP/Pro uses the 'same' yellow color on the small cylinders as the old real MAPP cylinders used, but it is NOT the same thing. Or even close.
There used to be a pretty real positive difference when you used MAPP (in a torch set up for it) compared to plain propane when soldering. Hotter and more heat in the flame.
Now, the MAP/Pro stuff (which is mostly propylene gas) gets maybe 10% hotter and 10% more BTU (heat, which is NOT the same thing as temperature) than propane. And it costs like 2x the price of propane. Blah.
General purpose soldering copper pipes (with Lead-free solder for plumbing line!) would be a 'standard' air-propane like the TS8000 torch.
Heating a bolt quickly you would usually want more of a concentrated pin-point flame and not the more spread-out swirl flame that you want/need for soldering copper plumbing lines.
Which means more of a welding-type torch, which means an oxy-fuel set-up. Just heating and brazing and cutting, you can use oxy-propane (with the appropriate tips and hoses and whatnot). If you want/need to weld though, then you would need oxy-acetylene.
The MAP/Pro uses the 'same' yellow color on the small cylinders as the old real MAPP cylinders used, but it is NOT the same thing. Or even close.
There used to be a pretty real positive difference when you used MAPP (in a torch set up for it) compared to plain propane when soldering. Hotter and more heat in the flame.
Now, the MAP/Pro stuff (which is mostly propylene gas) gets maybe 10% hotter and 10% more BTU (heat, which is NOT the same thing as temperature) than propane. And it costs like 2x the price of propane. Blah.
General purpose soldering copper pipes (with Lead-free solder for plumbing line!) would be a 'standard' air-propane like the TS8000 torch.
Heating a bolt quickly you would usually want more of a concentrated pin-point flame and not the more spread-out swirl flame that you want/need for soldering copper plumbing lines.
Which means more of a welding-type torch, which means an oxy-fuel set-up. Just heating and brazing and cutting, you can use oxy-propane (with the appropriate tips and hoses and whatnot). If you want/need to weld though, then you would need oxy-acetylene.
sberry
Banned
Lots of guys slid by with 20# lp and an 80 oxy. Heat and cut and a little solder.
Tinner
Well-known member
Yes, an air/acetylene torch is a wonderful thing. I have a Goss, but they're all about the same.
And yes, MAPP gets hotter than propane, that's the whole point!!!!! Control the heat baby, control the heat....
I've never had problems sweating pipe with either real MAPP (no longer made) or the currently available MAPP-pro. note that the heat content of MAPP pro is lower than propane, even though the flame temperature is higher. (my torch spec sheet says something like 14K BTU/hr for propane, 12K BTU/hr MAPP-pro)
neophyte
Well-known member
A Bernzomatic TS8000 torch will heat copper red hot to anneal tubing etc. very quickly, even with regular propane gas.
Mapp gas or the not real Mapp gas that is currently available aren’t even necessary.
The torch price is usually somewhere between $40 and $60.
Mapp gas or the not real Mapp gas that is currently available aren’t even necessary.
The torch price is usually somewhere between $40 and $60.
toolchaser
Well-known member
+1 for air/acetylene, Turbo Torch here,wear your earplugs!
milwaukeephil
Well-known member
I have a Smith Little Torch on my small portable oxy/acetylene tote. It has no problem heating stuff cherry red for bolt removal. The advantages are that it has a nice small pinpoint flame so you don't burn up stuff surrounding it, and it absolutely saves a TON of gas. My old torch on the same bottles would get less than an hour. I can't even count how many hours I've gotten out of one set with the Little Torch. I call it the Blue Wrench.
https://www.amazon.com/Smith-Little-Torch-Soldering-Welding/dp/B000T43L30
https://www.amazon.com/Smith-Little-Torch-Soldering-Welding/dp/B000T43L30
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
MAPP/PRO is a pure rip off.
If you want hotter, you need acetylene, no oxygen. This is what all of the HVAC guys use for brazing copper. Typically HVAC system use Type K copper tubing which is much thicker than the standard Type M used for residential plumbing.
Concur on both !
ovilla
Well-known member
You really need a small portable MAPP gas set up and an oxy/acetylene torch too. That’s what I have. My big tanks are chained to the wall and I have a 50’ hose so I can take the torch anywhere in the garage, or even out in the driveway. A cutting torch with a bunch of different sized rosebud heating tips will also save you a lot of time.
Chevy-SS
Well-known member
Sad to hear about MAPP being replaced by the "pro". I have been using the same tanks of MAPP gas for a long time, probably because they heat pipes so quickly you only need a few seconds for each joint. I'm guessing the "pro" stuff takes one or two more seconds???
Some info I found:
"The original MAPP gas production came to an end in 2008 as the sole plant making it discontinued the production. ... It is found that the oxygen flame of MAPP gas cylinders is not entirely appropriate for welding steel, due to the high concentration of hydrogen in the flame.
MAP-Pro gas burns at a temperature of 3,730 degrees Fahrenheit, while propane burns at 3,600 F. Because it heats copper faster and to a higher temperature, MAP-Pro gas is a superior alternative to propane for soldering. If you opt to use it, the manufacturer recommends using a specially designed torch."
Some info I found:
"The original MAPP gas production came to an end in 2008 as the sole plant making it discontinued the production. ... It is found that the oxygen flame of MAPP gas cylinders is not entirely appropriate for welding steel, due to the high concentration of hydrogen in the flame.
MAP-Pro gas burns at a temperature of 3,730 degrees Fahrenheit, while propane burns at 3,600 F. Because it heats copper faster and to a higher temperature, MAP-Pro gas is a superior alternative to propane for soldering. If you opt to use it, the manufacturer recommends using a specially designed torch."
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Leaflessshadetree
Well-known member
I have several propane torches that use disposable tanks. None were very expensive. I;ve sweated pipe and heated bolts with most of them. On large thick copper pipe I used 2 or 3 to get the fitting hote enough.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I don't buy that ! First, I don't think I have ever seen a MAP/Pro exclusive torch. Acetylene air is about 4000F.
harley jim
Well-known member
I have a set that I used for hvac install similar to the picture. They are oxy/ acetylene.
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